Hardaway should be a better fit than Rose was around KP/Melo.
Frank, Ron and Ramon should be able to push the ball like Rose/Jennings did.

The issue will be the same, though.
Melo at 3, KP at 4. THJ at 2. No lockdown guys there. The teams will score on us with ease.
Frank needs time to become a monster on defense. He can't come in and be Rondo in his prime in year in 1 being the youngest player in the NBA.

So I see us improving on offense. Less Triangle, more scoring and open floor game.
However on defense. It won't improve enough to be a playoff team.

My forecast would be between 33 and 37 wins. Best case 37. Melo is not in his prime to carry the team.

The biggest issue I have with keeping Melo is that he won't get us into the playoffs or a contender.
Yet, he will also take much of the wing spots and type of situations you want Porzingis and THj being in.

KP and THj need to be free of Melo to develop fully. Melo, the Knicks, everyone knows he doesn't fit. He's a great scoring talent, and he'd help us win more games. We would also lose position in the lottery. We would be looking at drafting 8-12 instead of top 4-5.

If Willy & KP provide expected improvements. Hardaway replaces Roses scoring production. Frank would possibly provide upgrade in defense, 3pt shooting, and pass first mentality to blend in better with Hardaway-Melo-KP-Willy than Rose did.

It really comes down to how much do Willy & KP improve. Then again while Indiana, Atl, Chi are on the way out. Charlotte, Detroit, Philly could possibly improve and Mia could go either way. They have enough veterans to be solid. We would be competing with those 5 teams for the last 6-8th seed.

Vmart wrote:Melo won't help the Knicks make the playoffs. But he will make sure the teams odds at a top three pick gets reduced. The real draw back with having Melo is that players won't develop under his tenure.

Vmart wrote:Melo won't help the Knicks make the playoffs. But he will make sure the teams odds at a top three pick gets reduced. The real draw back with having Melo is that players won't develop under his tenure.

Totally agree.

Think if he stayed, which he is not, they would definately make the playoffs. If you look at last years squad, we had no consistency with the rotation. Noah was hurt, KO was inconsistent, Willy played well but only moved to starter at end of year. You put Willy at 5 from the begining, you add wins. Then you look at Jennings and Rose. Rose missed first part of the season, played selfishly, at times and Jennings was inconsistent. You add a high IQ PG and you add wins. Oh yes and what else? Hmm ,oh yeah the Fucking Triangle! Whether you agree that it is a good system or not. There is no denying that no one liked it. Understood it. Or seemed comfortable playing it. That alone adds wins. Not that it will happen but it would have been interesting to see what the Knicks would look like with KP at 5, Melo at 4, Hardaway at 3, Lee at 2 and Sessions at 1. Think that would be a better defensive starting 5 then KP at 4 or Melo at 3. Then you can have WIlly come in at 5, KP play some 4, LT or Kuz at 3, Rookies at the 2 and 1. We will never know.

jrodmc wrote:It's interesting. We're -300 with Melo on the court, but if he's on the team, we can't tank this season. At the beginning of just this past season, he was also winning games and hitting last second shots, almost every week. Of course that doesn't count anymore. Neither does going 2-91 without him on the floor at all.

I just love this new math.

Wow, and KP can't lock anyone down on defense.

It's not new math, it's just math. No one is surprised that the anecdotal bull**** you keep pushing isn't supported by the math. Not that, THAT'S going to keep you from pushing it. Don't forget to smile Einstein.

TheGame wrote:I thought the team would make the playoffs last year and we are essentially the same. I think Phil and the triangle was a big factor in the losses. I can see the team making the playoffs with Melo. We might as well try to make the playoffs (as long as we still give minutes to the young guys).

Right, and this year it will be Hornacek's offense and Mills/Perry, the ghost of Isiah Thomas, Powerball lottery numbers, fake news on CNN and #COVFEFE that makes it impossible for poor Melo to make it to the playoffs.

meloshouldgo wrote:

TheGame wrote:I thought the team would make the playoffs last year and we are essentially the same. I think Phil and the triangle was a big factor in the losses. I can see the team making the playoffs with Melo. We might as well try to make the playoffs (as long as we still give minutes to the young guys).

Right, and this year it will be Hornacek's offense and Mills/Perry, the ghost of Isiah Thomas, Powerball lottery numbers, fake news on CNN and #COVFEFE that makes it impossible for poor Melo to make it to the playoffs.

The point I was making is that it is hard when the players and coach are forced to run a system that neither wanted. This year they can run a modern offense and they will not have all the distractions Phil caused. They still have to put in the work and I certainly am not suggesting that the playoffs are guaranteed. I just think the team does have enough talent to make it to the playoffs if Jeff can get them to play some semblance of defense.

TheGame wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

TheGame wrote:I thought the team would make the playoffs last year and we are essentially the same. I think Phil and the triangle was a big factor in the losses. I can see the team making the playoffs with Melo. We might as well try to make the playoffs (as long as we still give minutes to the young guys).

Right, and this year it will be Hornacek's offense and Mills/Perry, the ghost of Isiah Thomas, Powerball lottery numbers, fake news on CNN and #COVFEFE that makes it impossible for poor Melo to make it to the playoffs.

The point I was making is that it is hard when the players and coach are forced to run a system that neither wanted. This year they can run a modern offense and they will not have all the distractions Phil caused. They still have to put in the work and I certainly am not suggesting that the playoffs are guaranteed. I just think the team does have enough talent to make it to the playoffs if Jeff can get them to play some semblance of defense.

JH signed his contract knowing what system we were going to run and was brought in to modernize it. He signed on agreeing to the plan set forth. Carmelo Anthony resigned with the Knicks knowing what system we were going to run.

MDA's system didn't work out to well here either. His system was trashed in for lack of defense and made fun of for being to dependent on 3s. Now its used as the standard to critique the triangle as "antiquated".

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo won't help the Knicks make the playoffs. But he will make sure the teams odds at a top three pick gets reduced. The real draw back with having Melo is that players won't develop under his tenure.

Who didn't develop during his tenure? Maybe Shump. Hardaway was an all rookie before the triangle experiment. KP has developed but Rose didn't help last year. I do think it will be interesting to see if the Knicks go back to the developmental approach they were using before they went full triangle implementation in February. Similar to the good drafts, it was one of the things the Knicks were praised for.

All rookie team. You hear yourself. willie made all rookie averaging 8 points a game. You want significant development or you want reduced development. Players make all rookie doing a few thing well. WH made all rookie will Melo's presence allow him to go to higher level? Or will his presence top him off like KP who had very little growth from his rookie season. I'm not blaming Melo others had a role in the development process of players. But if Melo has the teams significant touches and he doesn't involve other how do they grow.