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Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy?
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gunsnewing
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7/22/2017  11:35 PM
izybx wrote:
TheGame wrote:Now that the latest bomb is out that this guy is asking his attorneys if he can pardon himself and his family and he throws his AG under the bus because he recused himself from the Russia investigation(and thus, Trump can't control the investigation) are those of you who voted for him happy with your decision? I am curious how the other side sees this.

I also wanted to mention a funny thing I noticed about Fox News. Whenever a story comes out about Trump you can tell how bad it is by the top story on Fox News website. If the top story on the first page is about Obama, Hillary Clinton, or leaks, then the mainstream story about Trump was very damaging. I have looked at this for the past three months and it never fails. They try to diffuse any bad story about Trump with something about obama (no longer president), Hillary Clinton (no longer anything) or leaks (the same leaks Trump was cheering as a candidate). It is laughable. Eventually their followers will stop falling for it and realize that Fox News is not fair or balanced.

As a conservative I was a reluctant Trump voter. Don't regret my choice considering the alternative. In the context of Russia, what exactly did Trump do again? What crime are we investigating? What illegal act was committed by Trump?

I know the answer to this BTW, and the answer is there is no crime. (Oh yes obstruction of justice. Ok)

How long will you guys chase this Russia story down the rabbit hole? If you were Trump wouldn't you be just a bit irritated by the whole thing? I mean, the investigation has been going on close to a year with 5 different investigating entities, what has been found?

And Franco, by referring to a "basic intelligence test" what type of conversation are you hoping to have? Is it possible for an intelligent person to disagree with you? Is everyone that agrees with you smart? Is that the test? Lmao you liberals wonder why Trunp won...

This nothing more to add other than get ready for 4 more years of Trump cos Dems and the media still don't grasp America

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gunsnewing
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7/22/2017  11:36 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:You already know gunsewing does, lol.

And the Fox News audience will remain the Fox News audience until they die off. Their average viewer is about what, 71 years old? People that age won't change their opinions on anything. And more importantly, anyone that watches Fox News doesn't really care about objective facts. They care about trying to make a point. So I'm not sure why you think that newfound facts would deter them from proceeding as usual.

You mentioned not caring about objective facts and instead caring about making a point, this is actually a quite brilliant topic. The video below is from TED talks, one of my fav YouTube channels. And it pretty much illustrates your point and has nothing to do with politics, rather psychological ways about how people's decision making operates. I really enjoyed watching it and wanted to share

Ted talks is great man!

gunsnewing
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7/22/2017  11:42 PM
Oh and to quickly answer the OP's question. The only thing I will change yet again is my party affiliation. Last year I was so disgusted with the Democratic Party I didn't think twice about declaring myself as a Republican. Out of anger and spite. But I've been reminded why I hate this party. Not as much as I despise this present day Democratic/Socialist party. Therefore consider me a lifelong independent unless things drastically change in my lifetime
gunsnewing
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7/22/2017  11:49 PM
Sinix wrote:A lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening when he gets another 4 years after the next 3 here. And some of you are driving yourselves crazy within 6 months of year 1. The problem with Trump haters is that you don't have another election to shock you back to reality. All you have is bogus polls, CNN and NYT propaganda.

To me that outlines the legacy Obama left us with. Hyper partisan politics, looking at the other side as evil, race baiting and general disrespect for your average american citizen while prioritizing foreigners. Can you believe this guy actually ran his original platform on bringing american people together?

Beautifully said

gunsnewing
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7/22/2017  11:51 PM
fishmike wrote:
Sinix wrote:A lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening when he gets another 4 years after the next 3 here. And some of you are driving yourselves crazy within 6 months of year 1. The problem with Trump haters is that you don't have another election to shock you back to reality. All you have is bogus polls, CNN and NYT propaganda.

To me that outlines the legacy Obama left us with. Hyper partisan politics, looking at the other side as evil, race baiting and general disrespect for your average american citizen while prioritizing foreigners. Can you believe this guy actually ran his original platform on bringing american people together?

man what bridge do you live under?

A bridge outside of New York's 5 Boroughs, parts of NJ & California.

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  12:00 AM
Sinix wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

You mean the one that Obama released before he was elected? The hunt for that one?

Pretty stupid story to harp on and on about for years that provided nothing but a distraction for the guy who needs to spend his time managing the whole country? But it was ratings gold for Fox News and for conservatives it painted Obama as potentially non American with non American interests.

CNN is telling you straight up they are doing the exact same thing with the Russia story. House democrats are quoted saying they hope to tie Trump up in these types of stories so he can't pass any legislation.

It's also xenophobic towards Russia.

It's also ignoring the true major corruption in American politics which is in the DNC. Filled with p2p, and undemocratic favoritism and even goes into pedophilia.

This is exactly the Dems and some republicans game plan. Stall by creating these baseless absurd Russian Aligarh theories. Only to keep Trump from erasing what's left of Obamas legacy. Eventhough Obama and the likes sold out their own party for personal gain. Trump has to ignore them and focus on the tasks at hand. Hire a new AG who will fire the Clinton's best buddy.

nixluva
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7/23/2017  12:08 AM
djsunyc wrote:
fwk00 wrote:3.) Demonizing white guys is a bad idea and mighty racist of you and anyone else engaging in the slander. The world is not dominated by whites but by the opportunists. I'm not one of them.

your parents or grandparents were around when blacks could not vote or had to go to segregated schools. not enough time has passed by for there to be actual racism against whites. it's an argument/defense that carries no weight as far as i'm concerned. it shows an absolute lack of understanding of world history.

and speaking of time...we took a huge step forward electing obama as president. but the day he took office, one party unified to make sure he would not be successful. this type of unification against a democratic president did not happen under clinton or carter. why did it under obama?

8 years later, this country elects the most divisive rich, corrupt, sexist and racist white guy that's ever ran for president. this is not some deep sh t here - it's pretty clear as day.

EXACTLY!!! My problem with this PURIST wing of Liberals is they failed to learn that Bill, Obama or Hillary were not perfect but by not voting or voting 3rd party or worst voting Republican you SCREWED the country and put a man in charge that should NEVER have come within 1000 miles of the Presidency!!!

For their Purist convictions they F'd up EVERYTHING for the very people they claim to be fighting for! We warned you this would happen but pride and pompous belief that Protest votes have meaning led to TRUMP and the craven Republicans being in charge and undoing all the hard work and gains we made. Plus not allowing us to move the ball further down the field after Obama!!! Happy now???

fwk00
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7/23/2017  12:39 AM
djsunyc wrote:
fwk00 wrote:3.) Demonizing white guys is a bad idea and mighty racist of you and anyone else engaging in the slander. The world is not dominated by whites but by the opportunists. I'm not one of them.

your parents or grandparents were around when blacks could not vote or had to go to segregated schools. not enough time has passed by for there to be actual racism against whites. it's an argument/defense that carries no weight as far as i'm concerned. it shows an absolute lack of understanding of world history.

and speaking of time...we took a huge step forward electing obama as president. but the day he took office, one party unified to make sure he would not be successful. this type of unification against a democratic president did not happen under clinton or carter. why did it under obama?

8 years later, this country elects the most divisive rich, corrupt, sexist and racist white guy that's ever ran for president. this is not some deep sh t here - it's pretty clear as day.

My and my grandparents were dirt poor immigrants who came to this country through official channels. My mother left school in eighth grade worked in factories that were true sweat shops during WWII. My father a lifetime factory worker - not a fun guy. Our neighborhoods were poor, crowded, and not middle-class until the sixties. My nanny was a black teen next door who earned spare money doing it. The mixed race school we attended had to cancel a party because the mice got into the food.

Racist? Sure if you say so.

Yeah, Obama's election was a big deal and a good thing in many ways but not because he was an effective president. He was a symbolic president.
He fell in love with assassination by drone, no trial, jury, nothing - its all under the umbrella of war. Educationally he funded a bankrupt and dysfunctional set of NCLB and RTTT policies that dumbed-down and continues to dumb-down generations of kids. ACA was and is a fiscally bleeding pig. Everything he touched turned to sh@t because he compromised it away.

The opposition both parties face is the death spiral they both engage in - hate speech toward the other, political blood-letting, relentless propaganda, and so on. Obama wasn't special that way - a mid-western white kid born with black skin. First thing he did in office was go and hug Bush so hard it could be considered sexual. Obama was and is part of the system, not a leader, not courageous, just another govt pensioner racking in millions on his influence peddling.

There's nothing divisive about Trump - the divisions were already there and aren't going away. He's a lightning rod for hate and political back-stabbing. Being rich is no crime. Being a man is no crime. He will do more for minorities in his time than Clinton, Bush, and Obama did.

Wake up.

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  12:40 AM
fwk00 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote: Let me bring this a little bit "on topic".

One thing Trump has done right is that he never backed down before media. If he bent his knee and asked for forgiveness, would the media forgive him? Those people didn't vote for him still won't, and those people supporting him still would. It is not about making your enemies loving you, it is about making your supporters staying with you. (so it is a bad move about Sessions)

Going back Knicks and Phil. Did killing Phil accomplish anything? FA still did not come. Those people didn't come because Phil still would not come (unless vastly overpaid) because we are weak. If Phil were here, he still would attract "some" guys who respected him. A team only has 17 slots, why should a leader look to be loved by everyone? He only has to have 17 good players willing to work here. It is not beauty contest. Looking for acceptance clouds our fans a lot. Many of us really wants to join the "mass". We want to join the party. So we want to do everything people say we should do. Inside, we are very insecure.

Good post. The bottom line is that there is no fresh air to run to. Trump is the only game in town. The hate-mongers trying to destroy Trump and everyone around him offer absolutely zero reason to believe they would do a better job.

What Trump is doing in an unintuitive way is exposing the last thirty years for what they've been - an exercise in self-deception. For anyone to be able to walk into the presidency and dismantle every social program this country *assumes* its entitled to is a wake-up call and a necessary one.

Trump is not responsible for runaway healthcare costs. He's not responsible for overflowing prisons. He's not responsible for shoot-to-kill policing. He's not responsible for ****ty public schools. And there's more.

All of these are bad systems but all of them have become vested interests and political special interests. The "non-profit" hospitals whose administrators make 6 and 7 digit paychecks hate Trump. The guards who make nice livings working at prisons hate Trump. The cops don't want accountability. The public schools that are big business and have nothing to do with kids learning don't want accountability. The list is long.

What Trump is doing is forcing the public to care about the things they care about most and stand up for them or lose them. The bull**** issues dissolve into dust compared to health, common good, and making a living. Political correctness is dead like a vampire but thankfully at least dead for a while.

Trump or someone worse will be around for eight years because there is no alternative. Pop some popcorn.

+1

fwk00
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7/23/2017  12:51 AM
djsunyc wrote:-snip-

gop: "healthcare is not a right!" of course it's not...if you don't give 2 sh ts about your citizens.

The ACA is a mandatory, unregulated tax [insurance subscription] on ALL Americans that has no government accountability. The cost to subscribe is a tax that can grow to create profit for the medical and insurance industries that satisfies their lust for money. The purchaser who cannot opt out must settle for whatever coverage is being granted no matter how good or bad.

This is very different than a "right".

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  12:53 AM
izybx wrote:I think a lot of Trump voters would have wanted to elect someone else. But give the be two choices, I have no regrets. I got my Supreme Court nominee. I don't have to worry about losing the right to own a gun, or the criminalization of free speech (hate speech is not free speech right). We have ended up with someone who is showing his political naivety by getting schooled by the likes of Schumer, someone who is not truly a conservative in any respect. The Democratic Party has lurched so far to the left that there is no choice anymore, and we have to be happy with that we got...

Schumer must have pages of dirt
On him. Possibly more than the Clintons. He was never elected President. Has he ever attempted to run for President?

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  12:59 AM
Sangfroid wrote:
arkrud wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

Trump and Co were looking for any dirt on Hillary so why its matter from were it comes - from CIA or KGB/FSB?
They are the same people anyways. All secret services are twin-brothers.
Hillary and Dems were not looking for same as they were too confident that they win the thing anyways.
OOPS... They lost. What a pity...
But in general who cares. Politician are all junk and as much all of them fail the better for regular folks.

The difference for me is that when the CIA wins, hopefully I benefit. When the KGB/FSB wins, I lose, in this case Trump. One thing that may be settled with these investigations is an in-depth examination of Trump's "wealth" and the origin of it. If, the country was given the courtesy of examining his taxes, as EVERY presidential candidate as done for the past forty years, then it would have allayed suspicions about who he serves. With Trump's constant pandering to Russia and Russian interests, an accounting to the people is necessary. #FOLLOWTHEMONEY

Why so CNN and MSNBC can pick about every little detail and ignore the fact he contributed far more tax dollars than Obama, Sanders, Perez and Ellison combined. Probably can throw the Clintons in there too

fwk00
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7/23/2017  1:01 AM
nixluva wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
fwk00 wrote:3.) Demonizing white guys is a bad idea and mighty racist of you and anyone else engaging in the slander. The world is not dominated by whites but by the opportunists. I'm not one of them.

your parents or grandparents were around when blacks could not vote or had to go to segregated schools. not enough time has passed by for there to be actual racism against whites. it's an argument/defense that carries no weight as far as i'm concerned. it shows an absolute lack of understanding of world history.

and speaking of time...we took a huge step forward electing obama as president. but the day he took office, one party unified to make sure he would not be successful. this type of unification against a democratic president did not happen under clinton or carter. why did it under obama?

8 years later, this country elects the most divisive rich, corrupt, sexist and racist white guy that's ever ran for president. this is not some deep sh t here - it's pretty clear as day.

EXACTLY!!! My problem with this PURIST wing of Liberals is they failed to learn that Bill, Obama or Hillary were not perfect but by not voting or voting 3rd party or worst voting Republican you SCREWED the country and put a man in charge that should NEVER have come within 1000 miles of the Presidency!!!

For their Purist convictions they F'd up EVERYTHING for the very people they claim to be fighting for! We warned you this would happen but pride and pompous belief that Protest votes have meaning led to TRUMP and the craven Republicans being in charge and undoing all the hard work and gains we made. Plus not allowing us to move the ball further down the field after Obama!!! Happy now???

nixluva, what smart Liberals learned from Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Hillary was that they were duplicitous in keeping things from improving. They corrupted the party from being about people to being about corporate interests. There is no deadlock - there is willful and profitable nod-and-wink duplicity involved.

Is Trump worse? Given the one-party system, what do Americans have to lose with Trump? Who misses the incompetence and political dross that preceded him?

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  1:04 AM
blkexec wrote:
matt wrote:I couldn't believe how any logical/compassionate people supported him in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me that people still do.

Trump removed the blanket, and exposed the dirty laundry. As you can see from Knick fans, there are still Trump supporters out there. It's like this man cant do no wrong, even when he does wrong.

If he was any other race, he wouldn't even be a politician!

We've come a long way....And made some great strides. Trump as president makes you realize we still have a lot to clean up in America.

No way. America begs to differ from your view points

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  1:05 AM
izybx wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
izybx wrote:It's not that I'm a big fan of Trump, but look at who you trotted out there as an alternative

Hilary Clinton is not president. There is no danger of her being president any time soon.

Why is his always the lens by which this topic has to be discussed.

I think on some level, most of understand why he was the alternative choice.

I think the question is more in context, now that the choice was made 9 months ago, what do you think now???

'He is still not as bad as Clinton would have been' strikes me as a defensive rationale.


Did you read the title of the thread? You can't ask someone if they regret their choice but stipulate that they can't discuss what the other option was. Smh... you just want everyone to come here and say yes Trump is so bad! Oh yes! That's not the discussion this thread was predicated on

This is why this forum does not in any way shape or form represent America

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  1:11 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
Paris907 wrote:While this refrain doesn't belong here, I'd vote for Trump again in a NY minute. Don Lemon and the other television personalities are disguised as journalists. Everyone's ratings are dependent on Trump. I don't care for his personality or methods or idiosyncrasies. Yet I like his agenda and his work ethic. He will do fine and perhaps Bill Maher and some other of these joksters will need to find material other than Russian collusion (ask Hillary about Collusion) when this latest embroglio is played out

This is the micro-ist of microcosms of his debate, but even here in three pages you can see 3 patterns.

1.) Comps to Clinton
2.) FUCK (mostly, the televised) media.
3.) Resentment that people don't think others make intelligent choices.

#s 2 & 3 are intertwined, however.

We're talking about the President. We should be talking about policy and statesmanship, but for some reason our choice of president and his performance has some specific relationship with what's on CNN at 9pm ET.

I fail to see the relevancy other than the popular theory Trump support is some sort of misplaced ultimate protest over the fact his supporters don't think CNN respects them and man, do they hate that.

Trump, to his credit, is just smart enough to know so long as he puts certain segments ahead of the media ahead of ISIS, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and poverty (to name a few) on his enemies list, he'll find unwavering support.

Again, someone explain how his should be the Presidents (who then gives interviews to same outlets he decries) main agenda - combating a TV network second in the ratings to Fox and some newspapers you don't read anyway.

Yes, that you see a relationship between these things makes me question your capacity for intelligent choices.

CNN may have the people here and in some other sporadic coastal states fooled, hook line and sinker, but in no way is there views and bias reflective of America as a whole. Not in any way shape or form. This election proved that. And so will the next one

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  1:15 AM
izybx wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Paris907 wrote:While this refrain doesn't belong here, I'd vote for Trump again in a NY minute. Don Lemon and the other television personalities are disguised as journalists. Everyone's ratings are dependent on Trump. I don't care for his personality or methods or idiosyncrasies. Yet I like his agenda and his work ethic. He will do fine and perhaps Bill Maher and some other of these joksters will need to find material other than Russian collusion (ask Hillary about Collusion) when this latest embroglio is played out

This is the micro-ist of microcosms of his debate, but even here in three pages you can see 3 patterns.

1.) Comps to Clinton
2.) FUCK (mostly, the televised) media.
3.) Resentment that people don't think others make intelligent choices.

#s 2 & 3 are intertwined, however.

We're talking about the President. We should be talking about policy and statesmanship, but for some reason our choice of president and his performance has some specific relationship with what's on CNN at 9pm ET.

I fail to see the relevancy other than the popular theory Trump support is some sort of misplaced ultimate protest over the fact his supporters don't think CNN respects them and man, do they hate that.

Trump, to his credit, is just smart enough to know so long as he puts certain segments ahead of the media ahead of ISIS, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and poverty (to name a few) on his enemies list, he'll find unwavering support.

Again, someone explain how his should be the Presidents (who then gives interviews to same outlets he decries) main agenda - combating a TV network second in the ratings to Fox and some newspapers you don't read anyway.

Yes, that you see a relationship between these things makes me question your capacity for intelligent choices.

Why can't you discuss this without slipping in little insults? Are all smart people democrats? All stupid people republicans?

No but that line of reasoning is at the top of their playbook.

Don't fret as a Republican because it only cements another 4yr term for Trump and another 8yrs for his republican successor

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  1:17 AM
mlby1215 wrote:I don't think so. There is a report that 97.5% of who voted him before would vote him again. It is not that hard to understand. If you wouldn't care the bad things about him before, you do not care it now too. He is pretty consistent. He has done what he said he would do. To his supporters, this is what it counts. The line is that he doesn't need the love from his enemies. CNN said he has dropped to new low EVERYDAY, but who cares? His supporters would not watch/read CNN, and those watch/read it would not support him anyway.

izybx wrote:I think a lot of Trump voters would have wanted to elect someone else. But give the be two choices, I have no regrets. I got my Supreme Court nominee. I don't have to worry about losing the right to own a gun, or the criminalization of free speech (hate speech is not free speech right). We have ended up with someone who is showing his political naivety by getting schooled by the likes of Schumer, someone who is not truly a conservative in any respect. The Democratic Party has lurched so far to the left that there is no choice anymore, and we have to be happy with that we got...

Bingo!

Again, America doesn't share the vast majority of views expressed here, on CNN or
MSNBC

gunsnewing
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7/23/2017  1:20 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:Nothing to see here, folks...just keep on walking...nothing to see here.


washingtonpost.com
Sessions discussed Trump campaign-related matters with Russian ambassador, U.S. intelligence intercepts show

10-12 minutes

The accounts from Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak to his superiors, intercepted by U.S. spy agencies, contradict public assertions by Attorney General Jeff Sessions. The Post's Greg Miller explains. Accounts from Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, intercepted by U.S. spy agencies, contradict public assertions by Attorney General Jeff Sessions (Sarah Parnass/The Washington Post)


Russia’s ambassador to Washington told his superiors in Moscow that he discussed campaign-related matters, including policy issues important to Moscow, with Jeff Sessions during the 2016 presidential race, contrary to public assertions by the embattled attorney general, according to current and former U.S. officials.

Ambassador Sergey Kislyak’s accounts of two conversations with Sessions — then a top foreign policy adviser to Republican candidate Donald Trump — were intercepted by U.S. spy agencies, which monitor the communications of senior Russian officials both in the United States and in Russia. Sessions initially failed to disclose his contacts with Kislyak and then said that the meetings were not about the Trump campaign.

One U.S. official said that Sessions — who testified that he has no recollection of an April encounter — has provided “misleading” statements that are “contradicted by other evidence.” A former official said that the intelligence indicates that Sessions and Kislyak had “substantive” discussions on matters including Trump’s positions on Russia-related issues and prospects for U.S.-Russia relations in a Trump administration.

Sessions has said repeatedly that he never discussed campaign-related issues with Russian officials and that it was only in his capacity as a U.S. senator that he met with Kislyak.

“I never had meetings with Russian operatives or Russian intermediaries about the Trump campaign,” Sessions said in March when he announced that he would recuse himself from matters relating to the FBI probe of Russian interference in the election and any connections to the Trump campaign.
Team Trump’s ties to Russian interests


Current and former U.S. officials said that assertion is at odds with Kislyak’s accounts of conversations during two encounters over the course of the campaign, one in April ahead of Trump’s first major foreign policy speech and another in July on the sidelines of the Republican National Convention.

The apparent discrepancy could pose new problems for Sessions at a time when his position in the administration appears increasingly tenuous.

Trump, in an interview this week, expressed frustration with Sessions’s recusing himself from the Russia probe and indicated that he regretted his decision to make the lawmaker from Alabama the nation’s top law enforcement officer. Trump also faulted Sessions as giving “bad answers” during his confirmation hearing about his Russian contacts during the campaign.

Officials emphasized that the information contradicting Sessions comes from U.S. intelligence on Kislyak’s communications with the Kremlin, and acknowledged that the Russian ambassador could have mischaracterized or exaggerated the nature of his interactions.

“Obviously I cannot comment on the reliability of what anonymous sources describe in a wholly uncorroborated intelligence intercept that the Washington Post has not seen and that has not been provided to me,” said Sarah Isgur Flores, a Justice Department spokeswoman in a statement. She reiterated that Sessions did not discuss interference in the election.

Russian and other foreign diplomats in Washington and elsewhere have been known, at times, to report false or misleading information to bolster their standing with their superiors or to confuse U.S. intelligence agencies.

But U.S. officials with regular access to Russian intelligence reports say Kislyak — whose tenure as ambassador to the United States ended recently — has a reputation for accurately relaying details about his interactions with officials in Washington.

Sessions removed himself from direct involvement in the Russia investigation after it was revealed in The Washington Post that he had met with Kislyak at least twice in 2016, contacts he failed to disclose during his confirmation hearing in January.

“I did not have communications with the Russians,” Sessions said when asked whether anyone affiliated with the Trump campaign had communicated with representatives of the Russian government.

He has since maintained that he misunderstood the scope of the question and that his meetings with Kislyak were strictly in his capacity as a U.S. senator. In a March appearance on Fox television, Sessions said, “I don’t recall any discussion of the campaign in any significant way.”

Sessions appeared to narrow that assertion further in extensive testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee in June, saying that he “never met with or had any conversation with any Russians or foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election in the United States.”

But when pressed for details, Sessions qualified many of his answers during that hearing by saying that he could “not recall” or did not have “any recollection.”

A former U.S. official who read the Kislyak reports said that the Russian ambassador reported speaking with Sessions about issues that were central to the campaign, including Trump’s positions on key policy matters of significance to Moscow.

Sessions had a third meeting with Kislyak in his Senate office in September. Officials declined to say whether U.S. intelligence agencies intercepted any Russian communications describing the third encounter.

As a result, the discrepancies center on two earlier Sessions-Kislyak conversations, including one that Sessions has acknowledged took place in July 2016 on the sidelines of the Republican National Convention.

By that point, Russian President Vladimir Putin had decided to embark on a secret campaign to help Trump win the White House by leaking damaging emails about his rival, Democrat Hillary Clinton, according to U.S. intelligence agencies.

Although it remains unclear how involved Kislyak was in the covert Russian campaign to aid Trump, his superiors in Moscow were eager for updates about the candidate’s positions, particularly regarding U.S. sanctions on Russia and long-standing disputes with the Obama administration over conflicts in Ukraine and Syria.

Kislyak also reported having a conversation with Sessions in April at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, where then-candidate Trump delivered his first major foreign policy address, according to the officials familiar with intelligence on Kislyak.

Sessions has said he does not remember any encounter with Kislyak at that event. In his June testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee, Sessions said, “I do not recall any conversations with any Russian official at the Mayflower Hotel.”

Later in that hearing, Sessions said that “it’s conceivable that that occurred. I just don’t remember it.”

Kislyak was also a key figure in the departure of former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who was forced to leave that job after The Post revealed that he had discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with Kislyak even while telling others in the Trump administration that he had not done so.

In that case, however, Flynn’s phone conversations with Kislyak were intercepted by U.S. intelligence, providing irrefutable evidence. The intelligence on Sessions, by contrast, is based on Kislyak’s accounts and not corroborated by other sources.

Former FBI director James B. Comey fueled speculation about the possibility of a Sessions-Kislyak meeting at the Mayflower when he told the same Senate committee on June 8 that the bureau had information about Sessions that would have made it “problematic” for him to be involved in the Russia probe.

Comey would not provide details of what information the FBI had, except to say that he could only discuss it privately with the senators. Current and former officials said he appeared to be alluding to intelligence on Kislyak’s account of an encounter with Sessions at the Mayflower.

Senate Democrats later called on the FBI to investigate the event in April at the Mayflower hotel.

Checkpoint newsletter

Military, defense and security at home and abroad.

Sessions’s role in removing Comey as FBI director angered many at the bureau and set in motion events that led to the appointment of former FBI director Robert S. Mueller III as a special counsel overseeing the Russia probe.

Trump’s harsh words toward the attorney general fueled speculation this week that Sessions would be fired or would resign. So far, he has resisted resigning, saying that he intends to stay in the job “as long as that is appropriate.”

Matt Zapotosky and Julie Tate contributed to this report.

Adam Entous writes about national security, foreign policy and intelligence for The Post. He joined the newspaper in 2016 after more than 20 years with The Wall Street Journal and Reuters, where he covered the Pentagon, the CIA, the White House and Congress. He covered President George W. Bush for five years after the September 11, 2001, attacks.

Ellen Nakashima is a national security reporter for The Washington Post. She focuses on issues relating to intelligence, technology and civil liberties.
Follow @nakashimae

Greg Miller is a national security correspondent for The Washington Post. He was among the Post reporters awarded the 2014 Pulitzer Prize for coverage of U.S. surveillance programs revealed by Edward Snowden and a finalist for the 2013 Pulitzer Prize. He previously worked for The Los Angeles Times.
Follow @gregpmiller


And?

gunsnewing
Posts: 55075
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 2/24/2002
Member: #215
USA
7/23/2017  1:31 AM
fwk00 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote: Let me bring this a little bit "on topic".

One thing Trump has done right is that he never backed down before media. If he bent his knee and asked for forgiveness, would the media forgive him? Those people didn't vote for him still won't, and those people supporting him still would. It is not about making your enemies loving you, it is about making your supporters staying with you. (so it is a bad move about Sessions)

Going back Knicks and Phil. Did killing Phil accomplish anything? FA still did not come. Those people didn't come because Phil still would not come (unless vastly overpaid) because we are weak. If Phil were here, he still would attract "some" guys who respected him. A team only has 17 slots, why should a leader look to be loved by everyone? He only has to have 17 good players willing to work here. It is not beauty contest. Looking for acceptance clouds our fans a lot. Many of us really wants to join the "mass". We want to join the party. So we want to do everything people say we should do. Inside, we are very insecure.

Good post. The bottom line is that there is no fresh air to run to. Trump is the only game in town. The hate-mongers trying to destroy Trump and everyone around him offer absolutely zero reason to believe they would do a better job.

What Trump is doing in an unintuitive way is exposing the last thirty years for what they've been - an exercise in self-deception. For anyone to be able to walk into the presidency and dismantle every social program this country *assumes* its entitled to is a wake-up call and a necessary one.

Trump is not responsible for runaway healthcare costs. He's not responsible for overflowing prisons. He's not responsible for shoot-to-kill policing. He's not responsible for ****ty public schools. And there's more.

All of these are bad systems but all of them have become vested interests and political special interests. The "non-profit" hospitals whose administrators make 6 and 7 digit paychecks hate Trump. The guards who make nice livings working at prisons hate Trump. The cops don't want accountability. The public schools that are big business and have nothing to do with kids learning don't want accountability. The list is long.

What Trump is doing is forcing the public to care about the things they care about most and stand up for them or lose them. The bull**** issues dissolve into dust compared to health, common good, and making a living. Political correctness is dead like a vampire but thankfully at least dead for a while.

Trump or someone worse will be around for eight years because there is no alternative. Pop some popcorn.

The issue here is you're conflating a radical worldview (which I am neither criticizing or addressing) with Trump, who really plays no role in what you're referring to.

I think someone of us, even if we don't share your views, don't understand why you wouldn't want a more committed, more capable, less embarrassing leader/spokesperson/symbol of this POV.

He has done nothing about healthcare but sit back and wait for Congress to send him something ... anything that he can call a defeat of the ACA. He has shown no actual engagement in the issue. He has done nothing about crime or education, taxes or infastructure.

What you describe is him being a caught-up as an idiot bystander, and that's good and fine, just don't know what you wouldn't prefer an effective advocate.

Not sure what you think I'm conflating - not arguing here - truly confused.

I would love a more platitudinal spokesperson but unfortunately this country has devolved into an attack dog conversation with each other. The Ideas don't matter - destroying the person with an opposing viewpoint does. That's why Trump is so popular - because he's rich enough not to give a sh@t.

But YOU seem to care. Why wouldn't you aspire to have the leader you profess you'd love?

And because you ignore what he has done for the media manufactured, tempest in a teapot, you believe he's an idiot because the other American pasttime has become calling the other names.

I can't ignore what I don't know. What has he done?

I didn't call him a name. I described/reworded what it read to me YOU were describing him - "unintuitive way".

You cannot reasonably on one hand criticize the discourse but on the other tell me what I think and why I think it.

So far he hasn't become Hitler.

He hasn't been impeached before 100 days in office.

Indeed.

He hasn't committed treason.

That we're currently aware of.

He's not evil. And so on, and so on, and so on... - all of these claims being routinely treated as newsworthy by CNN.

At some people you and the others who have made similar comments have to realize railing against a media outlet you don't happen to like has nothing to do with the capacity and job performance of the President of the United States.

My impression of the MSM and the national Democrats was galvanized before the election when ALL the Republican candidates were treated like sub-human morons. As a Liberal and as a Democrat I was and continue to be appalled. Hillary was even bold enough to dignify it - the deplorables - voters beneath her dignity.

My deceased father was a Democrat who was a lifelong factory worker and I'm a lifelong Democrat - the unholy Obama/Hillary hubris exposed the Democrats in States where Hillary was TROUNCED by Sanders. Liberals who supported Sanders were given the same treatment the deplorables were given - no words needed to be spoken.

The media you love so much hate Trump and his administration because they are not family like most Washington administrations are. Scratch the surface of your "objective" journalist and you'll find incestuous relations between them and a politician or government bureaucrat. Who is Andrea Mitchell married to? Thomas Friedman? Keep looking. Money and power are what's driving Trump critics - they want it back.

Yup it's as simple as you stated in your final sentence. Not global warming or any other political nonsense the idiots in the media continue to feed. Or what they wrongfully believe is America's views.

Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy?

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