fwk00 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote: Let me bring this a little bit "on topic".

One thing Trump has done right is that he never backed down before media. If he bent his knee and asked for forgiveness, would the media forgive him? Those people didn't vote for him still won't, and those people supporting him still would. It is not about making your enemies loving you, it is about making your supporters staying with you. (so it is a bad move about Sessions)

Going back Knicks and Phil. Did killing Phil accomplish anything? FA still did not come. Those people didn't come because Phil still would not come (unless vastly overpaid) because we are weak. If Phil were here, he still would attract "some" guys who respected him. A team only has 17 slots, why should a leader look to be loved by everyone? He only has to have 17 good players willing to work here. It is not beauty contest. Looking for acceptance clouds our fans a lot. Many of us really wants to join the "mass". We want to join the party. So we want to do everything people say we should do. Inside, we are very insecure.

Good post. The bottom line is that there is no fresh air to run to. Trump is the only game in town. The hate-mongers trying to destroy Trump and everyone around him offer absolutely zero reason to believe they would do a better job.

What Trump is doing in an unintuitive way is exposing the last thirty years for what they've been - an exercise in self-deception. For anyone to be able to walk into the presidency and dismantle every social program this country *assumes* its entitled to is a wake-up call and a necessary one.

Trump is not responsible for runaway healthcare costs. He's not responsible for overflowing prisons. He's not responsible for shoot-to-kill policing. He's not responsible for ****ty public schools. And there's more.

All of these are bad systems but all of them have become vested interests and political special interests. The "non-profit" hospitals whose administrators make 6 and 7 digit paychecks hate Trump. The guards who make nice livings working at prisons hate Trump. The cops don't want accountability. The public schools that are big business and have nothing to do with kids learning don't want accountability. The list is long.

What Trump is doing is forcing the public to care about the things they care about most and stand up for them or lose them. The bull**** issues dissolve into dust compared to health, common good, and making a living. Political correctness is dead like a vampire but thankfully at least dead for a while.

Trump or someone worse will be around for eight years because there is no alternative. Pop some popcorn.

The issue here is you're conflating a radical worldview (which I am neither criticizing or addressing) with Trump, who really plays no role in what you're referring to.

I think someone of us, even if we don't share your views, don't understand why you wouldn't want a more committed, more capable, less embarrassing leader/spokesperson/symbol of this POV.

He has done nothing about healthcare but sit back and wait for Congress to send him something ... anything that he can call a defeat of the ACA. He has shown no actual engagement in the issue. He has done nothing about crime or education, taxes or infastructure.

What you describe is him being a caught-up as an idiot bystander, and that's good and fine, just don't know what you wouldn't prefer an effective advocate.

Not sure what you think I'm conflating - not arguing here - truly confused.

I would love a more platitudinal spokesperson but unfortunately this country has devolved into an attack dog conversation with each other. The Ideas don't matter - destroying the person with an opposing viewpoint does. That's why Trump is so popular - because he's rich enough not to give a sh@t.

And because you ignore what he has done for the media manufactured, tempest in a teapot, you believe he's an idiot because the other American pasttime has become calling the other names.

So far he hasn't become Hitler.

He hasn't been impeached before 100 days in office.

He hasn't committed treason.

He's not evil. And so on, and so on, and so on... - all of these claims being routinely treated as newsworthy by CNN.

Trump is America.

izybx wrote:I don't have to worry about losing the right to own a gun,

Why were under the impression you needed to worry about that?

Sinix wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

Let me know where you work so I can come in and give you an earful while you're trying to get important things done. We'll see how long you are 'innocent'.

C'mon man. If I ask a question and you give a glib, evasive answer. Would you not expect me to ask again? Maybe I'll ask a different way, so as to get an answer. From reading your posts, I would expect you to understand.

fwk00 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

mlby1215 wrote: Let me bring this a little bit "on topic".

One thing Trump has done right is that he never backed down before media. If he bent his knee and asked for forgiveness, would the media forgive him? Those people didn't vote for him still won't, and those people supporting him still would. It is not about making your enemies loving you, it is about making your supporters staying with you. (so it is a bad move about Sessions)

Going back Knicks and Phil. Did killing Phil accomplish anything? FA still did not come. Those people didn't come because Phil still would not come (unless vastly overpaid) because we are weak. If Phil were here, he still would attract "some" guys who respected him. A team only has 17 slots, why should a leader look to be loved by everyone? He only has to have 17 good players willing to work here. It is not beauty contest. Looking for acceptance clouds our fans a lot. Many of us really wants to join the "mass". We want to join the party. So we want to do everything people say we should do. Inside, we are very insecure.

Good post. The bottom line is that there is no fresh air to run to. Trump is the only game in town. The hate-mongers trying to destroy Trump and everyone around him offer absolutely zero reason to believe they would do a better job.

What Trump is doing in an unintuitive way is exposing the last thirty years for what they've been - an exercise in self-deception. For anyone to be able to walk into the presidency and dismantle every social program this country *assumes* its entitled to is a wake-up call and a necessary one.

Trump is not responsible for runaway healthcare costs. He's not responsible for overflowing prisons. He's not responsible for shoot-to-kill policing. He's not responsible for ****ty public schools. And there's more.

All of these are bad systems but all of them have become vested interests and political special interests. The "non-profit" hospitals whose administrators make 6 and 7 digit paychecks hate Trump. The guards who make nice livings working at prisons hate Trump. The cops don't want accountability. The public schools that are big business and have nothing to do with kids learning don't want accountability. The list is long.

What Trump is doing is forcing the public to care about the things they care about most and stand up for them or lose them. The bull**** issues dissolve into dust compared to health, common good, and making a living. Political correctness is dead like a vampire but thankfully at least dead for a while.

Trump or someone worse will be around for eight years because there is no alternative. Pop some popcorn.

The issue here is you're conflating a radical worldview (which I am neither criticizing or addressing) with Trump, who really plays no role in what you're referring to.

I think someone of us, even if we don't share your views, don't understand why you wouldn't want a more committed, more capable, less embarrassing leader/spokesperson/symbol of this POV.

He has done nothing about healthcare but sit back and wait for Congress to send him something ... anything that he can call a defeat of the ACA. He has shown no actual engagement in the issue. He has done nothing about crime or education, taxes or infastructure.

What you describe is him being a caught-up as an idiot bystander, and that's good and fine, just don't know what you wouldn't prefer an effective advocate.

Not sure what you think I'm conflating - not arguing here - truly confused.

I would love a more platitudinal spokesperson but unfortunately this country has devolved into an attack dog conversation with each other. The Ideas don't matter - destroying the person with an opposing viewpoint does. That's why Trump is so popular - because he's rich enough not to give a sh@t.

But YOU seem to care. Why wouldn't you aspire to have the leader you profess you'd love?

And because you ignore what he has done for the media manufactured, tempest in a teapot, you believe he's an idiot because the other American pasttime has become calling the other names.

I can't ignore what I don't know. What has he done?

I didn't call him a name. I described/reworded what it read to me YOU were describing him - "unintuitive way".

You cannot reasonably on one hand criticize the discourse but on the other tell me what I think and why I think it.

So far he hasn't become Hitler.

He hasn't been impeached before 100 days in office.

Indeed.

He hasn't committed treason.

That we're currently aware of.

He's not evil. And so on, and so on, and so on... - all of these claims being routinely treated as newsworthy by CNN.

At some people you and the others who have made similar comments have to realize railing against a media outlet you don't happen to like has nothing to do with the capacity and job performance of the President of the United States.

Sinix wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Sinix wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

I "feel" like Barack Obama produced his birth certificate.

Don't you?

Donald Trump could answer questions regarding his possible financial foreign interests by doing similar, by releasing his tax return as every modern president has volunteered to do before him.

Now, if totally innocent, why didn't Kushner disclose the meeting, why did DJJr.'s account of the meeting change within 24 hours of being revealed?

Like Mueller and two separate Congressional intelligence committees chaired by Republicans, I'm merely asking that question, as is understanable.

Do you KNOW the answer to it?

You feel as a liberal that your guy provided enough evidence.

But people say it was faked and have their own evidence.

Do you not see how this is the same exact situation in reverse?

You're doing the same thing you probably criticized people for bringing up the birth certificate with.

Trump dragged out that birth certificate drama for as long as it was worth. Nothing burger. I'll wait just as long for his tax returns... Let's see if those are fakes.

matt wrote:I couldn't believe how any logical/compassionate people supported him in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me that people still do.

Trump removed the blanket, and exposed the dirty laundry. As you can see from Knick fans, there are still Trump supporters out there. It's like this man cant do no wrong, even when he does wrong.

If he was any other race, he wouldn't even be a politician!

We've come a long way....And made some great strides. Trump as president makes you realize we still have a lot to clean up in America.

blkexec wrote:

matt wrote:I couldn't believe how any logical/compassionate people supported him in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me that people still do.

Trump removed the blanket, and exposed the dirty laundry. As you can see from Knick fans, there are still Trump supporters out there. It's like this man cant do no wrong, even when he does wrong.

If he was any other race, he wouldn't even be a politician!

We've come a long way....And made some great strides. Trump as president makes you realize we still have a lot to clean up in America.

What does race have to do with it? I'm Puerto Rican, but I voted for Trump because he's white? Or because I really want to be a white supremacist or something (what is the exposed dirty laundry?)

I'm tired of the race baiting, last I checked I was American before I was a Puerto Rican, or a Bronx native, or anything else. We talking politics, insinuating something is racial is a tactic of someone who has nothing to debate