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Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy?
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Knickoftime
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7/21/2017  10:16 AM
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

AUTOADVERT
Sinix
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7/21/2017  10:20 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

Sinix
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7/21/2017  10:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2017  10:26 AM
A lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening when he gets another 4 years after the next 3 here. And some of you are driving yourselves crazy within 6 months of year 1. The problem with Trump haters is that you don't have another election to shock you back to reality. All you have is bogus polls, CNN and NYT propaganda.

To me that outlines the legacy Obama left us with. Hyper partisan politics, looking at the other side as evil, race baiting and general disrespect for your average american citizen while prioritizing foreigners. Can you believe this guy actually ran his original platform on bringing american people together?

matt
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7/21/2017  10:25 AM
I couldn't believe how any logical/compassionate people supported him in the first place, so it doesn't surprise me that people still do.
fishmike
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7/21/2017  10:27 AM
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

You mean the one that Obama released before he was elected? The hunt for that one?
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
BRIGGS
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7/21/2017  10:29 AM
My goal for Trump was more employment--less crime. I dont have a 6 moth time-frame---I have a 3 year time-frame. I dont like that he threw Sessions under the bus this week--that was not loyal.

He needs to find a way to work with Democrats--he is highly narcissistic and I have not seen the "deal'making" skills. I personally believe having a better working relationship with Russia would be a net positive---having a continual antagonistic relationship makes the world a scary place. We dont have to be best buddies--but I happen to like Trumps approach to Russia. Where is it set in stone we have to be enemies?

He needs to take a softer watered down approach--not sure hes capable. But you get elected for 4 years not 6 months.

fishmike
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7/21/2017  10:29 AM
Sinix wrote:A lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening when he gets another 4 years after the next 3 here. And some of you are driving yourselves crazy within 6 months of year 1. The problem with Trump haters is that you don't have another election to shock you back to reality. All you have is bogus polls, CNN and NYT propaganda.

To me that outlines the legacy Obama left us with. Hyper partisan politics, looking at the other side as evil, race baiting and general disrespect for your average american citizen while prioritizing foreigners. Can you believe this guy actually ran his original platform on bringing american people together?

man what bridge do you live under?
fishmike - Making UltimateKnicks great again
Knickoftime
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7/21/2017  10:33 AM
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

I "feel" like Barack Obama produced his birth certificate.

Don't you?

Donald Trump could answer questions regarding his possible financial foreign interests by doing similar, by releasing his tax return as every modern president has volunteered to do before him.

Now, if totally innocent, why didn't Kushner disclose the meeting, why did DJJr.'s account of the meeting change within 24 hours of being revealed?

Like Mueller and two separate Congressional intelligence committees chaired by Republicans, I'm merely asking that question, as is understanable.

Do you KNOW the answer to it?

Sinix
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7/21/2017  10:36 AM
fishmike wrote:
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

You mean the one that Obama released before he was elected? The hunt for that one?

Pretty stupid story to harp on and on about for years that provided nothing but a distraction for the guy who needs to spend his time managing the whole country? But it was ratings gold for Fox News and for conservatives it painted Obama as potentially non American with non American interests.

CNN is telling you straight up they are doing the exact same thing with the Russia story. House democrats are quoted saying they hope to tie Trump up in these types of stories so he can't pass any legislation.

It's also xenophobic towards Russia.

It's also ignoring the true major corruption in American politics which is in the DNC. Filled with p2p, and undemocratic favoritism and even goes into pedophilia.

Sinix
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7/21/2017  10:39 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

I "feel" like Barack Obama produced his birth certificate.

Don't you?

Donald Trump could answer questions regarding his possible financial foreign interests by doing similar, by releasing his tax return as every modern president has volunteered to do before him.

Now, if totally innocent, why didn't Kushner disclose the meeting, why did DJJr.'s account of the meeting change within 24 hours of being revealed?

Like Mueller and two separate Congressional intelligence committees chaired by Republicans, I'm merely asking that question, as is understanable.

Do you KNOW the answer to it?

You feel as a liberal that your guy provided enough evidence.

But people say it was faked and have their own evidence.

Do you not see how this is the same exact situation in reverse?

You're doing the same thing you probably criticized people for bringing up the birth certificate with.

martin
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7/21/2017  10:46 AM
Sinix wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

You mean the one that Obama released before he was elected? The hunt for that one?

Pretty stupid story to harp on and on about for years that provided nothing but a distraction for the guy who needs to spend his time managing the whole country? But it was ratings gold for Fox News and for conservatives it painted Obama as potentially non American with non American interests.

CNN is telling you straight up they are doing the exact same thing with the Russia story. House democrats are quoted saying they hope to tie Trump up in these types of stories so he can't pass any legislation.

It's also xenophobic towards Russia.

It's also ignoring the true major corruption in American politics which is in the DNC. Filled with p2p, and undemocratic favoritism and even goes into pedophilia.

nope, not having this. Sinix, you need to read up and get better places to get your information.

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Knickoftime
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7/21/2017  10:49 AM
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
Sinix wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
Sinix wrote:With all that's come out about the Russia story being fabricated how could one still buy into this fake news? Probably says a lot about how you easily eat up propaganda.

One clearly lives a sheltered life...doesn't one.

Trump's continued whining and threatening actually proves he did something wrong or is covering up something his people did, but Don Jr. and Kushner being involved means that Trump was aware of everything.

One does not react to a "nothing burger" in this way...

Get real.

So if you harass a guy at his job enough and he eventually responds, it means he's covering something up. Nice to know.

No, not at all.

When you and your staff are under investigation for something, claim there is nothing there and then we learn you did not disclose the very sort of thing you're being investigated for until the NYT forces your hand, any reasonable person would ask why. Jared Kushner's national security clearance depends on being forthright about such encounters, even if they were nothing, yet wasn't upfront about one.

There could be several answers to that question, some of involving totally innocent behavior, but not disclosing it just doesn't make sense, given what we know are established facts:

1.) As a senior white house advisor in order to obtain security clearance to view sensitive materials involving national security he must disclose ALL contact with foreign interests, however innocent.

2.) He did not.

Asking why is pretty much the most natural response possible.

How'd you feel about the hunt for Obama's birth certificate?

I "feel" like Barack Obama produced his birth certificate.

Don't you?

Donald Trump could answer questions regarding his possible financial foreign interests by doing similar, by releasing his tax return as every modern president has volunteered to do before him.

Now, if totally innocent, why didn't Kushner disclose the meeting, why did DJJr.'s account of the meeting change within 24 hours of being revealed?

Like Mueller and two separate Congressional intelligence committees chaired by Republicans, I'm merely asking that question, as is understanable.

Do you KNOW the answer to it?

You feel as a liberal that your guy provided enough evidence.

But people say it was faked and have their own evidence.

Do you not see how this is the same exact situation in reverse?

You're doing the same thing you probably criticized people for bringing up the birth certificate with.

I'm not.

Barack Obama was never under investigation by the Justice Department, the Senate Intelligence Committee and the House Intelligence Committee, none of whom are headed or chaired by Jeff Zucker.

None of Obama's National Security Advisors resigned over his birth certificate.

None of Obama's Attorney Generals recused themselves over an investigation into his birth certificate.

The head of the FBI was not fired by Obama because he was looking into Obama's birth certificate.

Now every time you ask a question I answer it, directly.

Why do you avoid questions asked of you?

Vmart
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7/21/2017  10:51 AM
ramtour420 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:You already know gunsewing does, lol.

And the Fox News audience will remain the Fox News audience until they die off. Their average viewer is about what, 71 years old? People that age won't change their opinions on anything. And more importantly, anyone that watches Fox News doesn't really care about objective facts. They care about trying to make a point. So I'm not sure why you think that newfound facts would deter them from proceeding as usual.

You mentioned not caring about objective facts and instead caring about making a point, this is actually a quite brilliant topic. The video below is from TED talks, one of my fav YouTube channels. And it pretty much illustrates your point and has nothing to do with politics, rather psychological ways about how people's decision making operates. I really enjoyed watching it and wanted to share

Excellent Video

fishmike
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7/21/2017  10:59 AM
BRIGGS wrote:My goal for Trump was more employment--less crime. I dont have a 6 moth time-frame---I have a 3 year time-frame. I dont like that he threw Sessions under the bus this week--that was not loyal.

He needs to find a way to work with Democrats--he is highly narcissistic and I have not seen the "deal'making" skills. I personally believe having a better working relationship with Russia would be a net positive---having a continual antagonistic relationship makes the world a scary place. We dont have to be best buddies--but I happen to like Trumps approach to Russia. Where is it set in stone we have to be enemies?

He needs to take a softer watered down approach--not sure hes capable. But you get elected for 4 years not 6 months.

You are getting what you voted for. What about Trumps plan during the election indicated he was a good pick to build jobs and less crime?

Hey.. I cant blame anyone, especially someone who is even moderately for NOT voting for Clinton. She might have been fine but had plenty of warts. Not the warts that Don had but people believe what makes their decisions sound better in their own heads. Thats human nature.

As an American, Bush never embarrassed me. I may not have agreed with his policy but he wasnt bad. In fact he tried a lot of things that were admirable and just didnt pan out. History will not be kind to Trump, because he hasnt done anything but make things worse... but yea, he's got 3 more years to make things happen assuming he stays in office

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GustavBahler
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7/21/2017  11:12 AM
I was skeptical about the Russia ties at first. The main reason being that it was a convenient way for the Clinton campaign to avoid coming up with an actual message. The Clintons as a team were responsible for some of the most disastrous policies of the last 25 years, with no signs of changing. Understandable that the Clinton campaign wanted to change the subject.

As far as Trump, there have been far too many meetings with Russians that have been denied at first by this administration. Too many instances of having to revise sworn statements, or testimonies to say its a witch hunt IMO. Too many instances of lapsed memories.

I don't know whats there, but looking at the team Mueller has assembled, if there is something going on, Im pretty sure Mueller and his team will find it. Wont be so easy to get him fired.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/trumprussia-probe-robert-muellers-dream-team-has-conspiracy-experience-20170624-gwxquz.html

To staff up, Mueller - who is a registered Republican - first turned to WilmerHale, the Washington-based law firm he joined after leaving the FBI in 2013.

WilmerHale also represents Trump's daughter Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner, as well as Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, in the Russia probes. Mueller picked two trusted colleagues from the firm: James Quarles and Aaron Zebley , in his first round of hires.

Quarles helped bring down a president in the 1970s as a member of the Watergate special prosecutor's team investigating Richard Nixon. He later focused his practice on civil litigation.

Zebley, Mueller's long-time chief of staff at the FBI, is a national security expert. He worked in the Justice Department's national security division and as an FBI counter-terrorism Trump-Russia probe: Robert Mueller's dream team has conspiracy experience


Dreeben and Weissmann will bring that searing experience to their new jobs working for Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating any links or coordination between US President Donald Trump's associates and the Russian government - a probe that has expanded to include whether the President sought to obstruct an FBI investigation.


Mueller has made no public comments since he was appointed May 17, but his first 13 hires speak volumes: They include veteran prosecutors who spent years unravelling complicated conspiracies in high-pressure cases. Some legal experts say that may be bad news for the president.

"These are guys that have a particular skill set that seems uncomfortably close to a potential case against Donald Trump," said Jonathan Turley, a law professor at George Washington University, who says he is skeptical of the publicly available evidence so far.

"This is a team with prosecutors who have not been timid in stretching the criminal code when it comes to prosecutions," he added.

Trump, who has repeatedly denied collusion with Moscow or obstruction of justice, on Friday denounced Mueller's team for what he claimed was partisan bias.

Mueller also hired Jeannie Rhee, a former deputy assistant attorney-general in the Justice Department, where she advised the Obama White House and other departments on criminal law, executive privilege and national security.

He also brought on Lisa Page, an FBI lawyer who specialises in money laundering and organised crime, and Elizabeth Prelogar, a former Supreme Court clerk who speaks Russian. She joined Mueller from the Solicitor General's office.

Peter Carr, Mueller's spokesman, said additional hires were in the pipeline. None of the lawyers hired so far were giving interviews.


As a deputy solicitor-general, Dreeben has argued more than 100 cases before the Supreme Court, mostly on questions of criminal law. His knowledge of federal statutes will be invaluable as Mueller considers what conduct might justify filing criminal charges, legal experts say.

"Literally I've seen him give an argument to the Supreme Court without a single note. He does it routinely," said Paul Rosenzweig, a lawyer who served as a deputy assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security.

"You and I read those cases and try to interpret them from a cold record. Dreeben litigated all of them," Rosenzweig said. "That's the difference between watching the movie, and acting in it. It's like having a good criminal law encyclopedia."

Weissmann is expected to play a key management role on Mueller's team. They worked together at the FBI for several years, where Weissmann served as special counsel and later as general counsel.

In 2015, Weissmann was named head of the criminal fraud division. He oversaw high-profile FBI probes into Volkswagen over diesel-cheating, global banks over market manipulation and Brazil's state-owned oil company Petrobras over corrupt payments.

He also launched a pilot program that offered incentives for companies to self-report possible violations of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which prohibits bribing foreign officials. Several years earlier, during a stint in private practice, he cited corruption in Russia as he argued for rewriting federal standards.

"The statute should take into account the realities that confront businesses that operate in countries with endemic corruption (eg Russia, which is consistently ranked by Transparency International as among the most corrupt in the world)," he wrote in prepared testimony for a Senate subcommittee in 2010.

Weissmann cut his teeth as a federal prosecutor in Brooklyn in the 1990s, where he tried more than two dozen cases that systematically took apart the leadership of New York's powerful Mafia families.

Among them: Vincent "The Chin" Gigante, accused boss of the Genovese crime family, who wandered streets in a bathrobe and whose lawyers claimed he was mentally unfit to stand trial. Weissmann convinced a judge that Gigante was faking; he was convicted in 1997 and died in prison.

Samuel Buell, who worked on the Enron task force with Weissmann, said he typifies the relentless, hard-core prosecutors bred in the US attorney's offices in Manhattan and Brooklyn.

"It's not swagger," said Buell, now a law professor at Duke University. "It's a confidence that after six or eight or 10 years, 'I'm not going to see a problem I can't handle. There's no case that's going to be over my head.'"

You don't get all dressed up for some special counsel party and just come out of it with a well-thumbed report," said Turley. "Weissmann is trained to find a weak link and break it."

Dan Cogdell, a Houston defense lawyer who had a cooperating client in the Enron case, said Weissmann may be the most aggressive prosecutor he ever faced in a white-collar criminal case.

"Once he believes he understands the facts, he is very difficult to move either way," said Cogdell. "He's very self-righteous in his belief system."

"He is Trump's worst nightmare if we believe that Trump, or anyone else, has done anything wrong," he said. "He's the very last guy you want coming at you."

Knickoftime
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7/21/2017  11:27 AM
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/21/trump-team-attack-robert-mueller-240801

It takes a special skill to read that and conclude Trump is simply annoyed and distracted by what he regards a investigation into nothing.

This is a legal team in full-on crisis mode.

And the simple notion Trump knows the investigation will turn up nothing fails the logic test.

He claims he was unaware of the DJJr. meeting that surfaced 2 weeks ago. He is acknowledging things occurred on his behalf he was unaware of, like assuming the reasons why Michael Flynn.

He cannot claim to be unaware of things AND at the same time claim to know what the investigation will or will not turn over. That is simple logic.

TheGame
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7/21/2017  11:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2017  12:17 PM
Sinix wrote:A lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening when he gets another 4 years after the next 3 here. And some of you are driving yourselves crazy within 6 months of year 1. The problem with Trump haters is that you don't have another election to shock you back to reality. All you have is bogus polls, CNN and NYT propaganda.

To me that outlines the legacy Obama left us with. Hyper partisan politics, looking at the other side as evil, race baiting and general disrespect for your average american citizen while prioritizing foreigners. Can you believe this guy actually ran his original platform on bringing american people together?

I have no problem with Republicans, I do have a problem with Trump, and I cannot believe that after the partisanship and disrespect the Republicans showed Obama that you would have the temerity to blame partisian politics in democrats. It is like you guys forgot the last eight years of replublicans trying to obstruct everything Obama did, and now you want us to not have bi-partisan politics anymore. Republicans cannot even agree amongst themselves on legislative initiatives.

Playoffs or bust
arkrud
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7/21/2017  12:50 PM
TheGame wrote:
Sinix wrote:A lot of you guys are in for a rude awakening when he gets another 4 years after the next 3 here. And some of you are driving yourselves crazy within 6 months of year 1. The problem with Trump haters is that you don't have another election to shock you back to reality. All you have is bogus polls, CNN and NYT propaganda.

To me that outlines the legacy Obama left us with. Hyper partisan politics, looking at the other side as evil, race baiting and general disrespect for your average american citizen while prioritizing foreigners. Can you believe this guy actually ran his original platform on bringing american people together?

I have no problem with Republicans, I do have a problem with Trump, and I cannot believe that after the partisanship and disrespect the Republicans showed Obama that you would have the temerity to blame partisian politics in democrats. It is like you guys forgot the last eight years of replublicans trying to obstruct everything Obama did, and now you want us to not have bi-partisan politics anymore. Republicans cannot even agree amongst themselves on legislative initiatives.

The main goal of Trump to have nothing done in Washington.
And this is the best thing for all of us.
We are in very good place and it is organically evolving into state which do not require any politician.
The less government intrudes in the lows of society the better.
Supply and demand will inevitably balance in all areas of live.
Our job as a society is to understand the lows of its existence and make use of them not truing to run against the wind.

He can teach them to meditate... but no one can control even his own mind...
fwk00
Posts: 20741
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Joined: 5/20/2015
Member: #6048

7/21/2017  12:57 PM
mlby1215 wrote: Let me bring this a little bit "on topic".

One thing Trump has done right is that he never backed down before media. If he bent his knee and asked for forgiveness, would the media forgive him? Those people didn't vote for him still won't, and those people supporting him still would. It is not about making your enemies loving you, it is about making your supporters staying with you. (so it is a bad move about Sessions)

Going back Knicks and Phil. Did killing Phil accomplish anything? FA still did not come. Those people didn't come because Phil still would not come (unless vastly overpaid) because we are weak. If Phil were here, he still would attract "some" guys who respected him. A team only has 17 slots, why should a leader look to be loved by everyone? He only has to have 17 good players willing to work here. It is not beauty contest. Looking for acceptance clouds our fans a lot. Many of us really wants to join the "mass". We want to join the party. So we want to do everything people say we should do. Inside, we are very insecure.

Good post. The bottom line is that there is no fresh air to run to. Trump is the only game in town. The hate-mongers trying to destroy Trump and everyone around him offer absolutely zero reason to believe they would do a better job.

What Trump is doing in an unintuitive way is exposing the last thirty years for what they've been - an exercise in self-deception. For anyone to be able to walk into the presidency and dismantle every social program this country *assumes* its entitled to is a wake-up call and a necessary one.

Trump is not responsible for runaway healthcare costs. He's not responsible for overflowing prisons. He's not responsible for shoot-to-kill policing. He's not responsible for ****ty public schools. And there's more.

All of these are bad systems but all of them have become vested interests and political special interests. The "non-profit" hospitals whose administrators make 6 and 7 digit paychecks hate Trump. The guards who make nice livings working at prisons hate Trump. The cops don't want accountability. The public schools that are big business and have nothing to do with kids learning don't want accountability. The list is long.

What Trump is doing is forcing the public to care about the things they care about most and stand up for them or lose them. The bull**** issues dissolve into dust compared to health, common good, and making a living. Political correctness is dead like a vampire but thankfully at least dead for a while.

Trump or someone worse will be around for eight years because there is no alternative. Pop some popcorn.

Knickoftime
Posts: 23205
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Joined: 1/13/2011
Member: #3370

7/21/2017  1:25 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/21/2017  1:25 PM
fwk00 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote: Let me bring this a little bit "on topic".

One thing Trump has done right is that he never backed down before media. If he bent his knee and asked for forgiveness, would the media forgive him? Those people didn't vote for him still won't, and those people supporting him still would. It is not about making your enemies loving you, it is about making your supporters staying with you. (so it is a bad move about Sessions)

Going back Knicks and Phil. Did killing Phil accomplish anything? FA still did not come. Those people didn't come because Phil still would not come (unless vastly overpaid) because we are weak. If Phil were here, he still would attract "some" guys who respected him. A team only has 17 slots, why should a leader look to be loved by everyone? He only has to have 17 good players willing to work here. It is not beauty contest. Looking for acceptance clouds our fans a lot. Many of us really wants to join the "mass". We want to join the party. So we want to do everything people say we should do. Inside, we are very insecure.

Good post. The bottom line is that there is no fresh air to run to. Trump is the only game in town. The hate-mongers trying to destroy Trump and everyone around him offer absolutely zero reason to believe they would do a better job.

What Trump is doing in an unintuitive way is exposing the last thirty years for what they've been - an exercise in self-deception. For anyone to be able to walk into the presidency and dismantle every social program this country *assumes* its entitled to is a wake-up call and a necessary one.

Trump is not responsible for runaway healthcare costs. He's not responsible for overflowing prisons. He's not responsible for shoot-to-kill policing. He's not responsible for ****ty public schools. And there's more.

All of these are bad systems but all of them have become vested interests and political special interests. The "non-profit" hospitals whose administrators make 6 and 7 digit paychecks hate Trump. The guards who make nice livings working at prisons hate Trump. The cops don't want accountability. The public schools that are big business and have nothing to do with kids learning don't want accountability. The list is long.

What Trump is doing is forcing the public to care about the things they care about most and stand up for them or lose them. The bull**** issues dissolve into dust compared to health, common good, and making a living. Political correctness is dead like a vampire but thankfully at least dead for a while.

Trump or someone worse will be around for eight years because there is no alternative. Pop some popcorn.

The issue here is you're conflating a radical worldview (which I am neither criticizing or addressing) with Trump, who really plays no role in what you're referring to.

I think someone of us, even if we don't share your views, don't understand why you wouldn't want a more committed, more capable, less embarrassing leader/spokesperson/symbol of this POV.

He has done nothing about healthcare but sit back and wait for Congress to send him something ... anything that he can call a defeat of the ACA. He has shown no actual engagement in the issue. He has done nothing about crime or education, taxes or infastructure.

What you describe is him being a caught-up as an idiot bystander, and that's good and fine, just don't know what you wouldn't prefer an effective advocate.

Off Topic: six months later, do people who voted for Trump still support this guy?

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