EnySpree wrote:This is Melo's only options.... expand his list of teams he would go to or honor his contact. He has to show up and play. If he doesn't want to cooperate... he can sit on the bench or get ordered to stay away. Get fined from the team and all that. That's not a bad thing. It shows our young players nothing and no one is above the team. Its the team that matters. There are 14 other players careers to build, not just one.

I've seen you push this narrative about a dozen times on this forum and it makes absolutely zero sense at all.

Can you suspend a player for behavior detrimental to his team? Yes. But you do have to align to previous discipline precedent within the league history and structure.

The standard to do so for a player with a NTC that the franchise clearly wants to trade has to be higher in this case. We are talking murder, outright gambling on the NBA or some type of violent felony caught on tape and uploaded to YouTube somewhere.

If you bench him, you'll have much of the same issues around the league. The Knicks don't have enough talent to bench Melo and justify it if he's healthy.

It will all look EXACTLY like you want it to be - Trying to leverage a suspension or benching to get him to waive his NTC to more teams than currently. This is a violation of the CBA. It's going to generate a conflict with the agents, the other owners, the NBAPA and Adam Silver. Not to mention the sports media. And every pocket that Leon Rose and CAA has their hands in right now.

When Zinger went AWOL and decided to go no contact to get Phil Jackson fired and Jackson got fired, then it's already been proven that he is above the team. His behavior was unacceptable, and the Knick rewarded him for it.

Not to mention all the times Melo ball stopped, chucked it, and acted like a coach killing diva, and guess what, the Knicks enabled him. So they've already established he's above the team as well.

The thing you don't seem to calculate is the Knicks need to move Melo before the open risk of injury becomes possible. Players get hurt. Older players get hurt. Older players who have poor conditioning get hurt. If Melo gets hurt as a Knick to start this season, he might opt in if the injury is bad enough and the Knicks will have zero chance to trade him. As well as eat the constant distraction being on the roster causes.

This doesn't even begin to factor in the damage Melo can cause while skirting any behavior that would guarantee a suspension. If he wants a buyout at full pay, he can simply become a truly toxic element in the locker room and media until the Knicks break down. Players do it all the time. We all saw KeyShawn Johnson do it with the Jets.

Knicks move him in a trade, they have to take back a bad contract of some kind. There is no way around it. Other people here have tried to come up with scenarios to avoid it, and there is simply no way around it. Not at that AAV and with that trade kicker.

Knicks don't move him in a trade, he poisons the roster and the season with the distraction and his patented selfish play and anti-team basketball behavior. He has every incentive to do as much as he can without crossing the line to get actually suspended to try to drive the Knicks to buy him out at full salary. So he can chase a ring, sign where he wants and still sign a 4 year deal in the offseason to skirt under the new Over 38 Rule.

This is a LOSE/LOSE situation. The question is how much can the Knicks mitigate the damage here to minimize the hit taken to get him off the roster.

This is a salvage job, pure and simple. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:F Melo! Dude didn't care to bust it for us why should we be supporting him!!! Melo RESISTED doing TEAM BUILDING things his coaches and GM's asked of him. Only when he got his way did he seriously step up his effort. You guys that continue to support him over guys like MDA or Phil just don't get it. Melo was at the core of the BS!!!

Let Melo go be the 3rd wheel somewhere else. I'm tired of him poisoning this franchise. I hope and pray they find a good deal and get Melo the FOH!!!

Team BUILDING? You mean the one the Owner, previous coach, most of the NBA, new Prez (Former GM) and future of the franchise thought was going in the wrong direction? The same one that got Phil fired? How is anyone still saying this team was not a bad show? Why would any smart, talented vet want to be a part of it? And let's also ignore that everyone in the NBA complimented Melo for how he handled things.

Melo is a slick guy that does his dirt away from the cameras and he plays the "who me?" Innocence game but he's the F'n Angel of Death for Coaches and GM's. We've wasted enough time and money on this guy!

This is the BEST start to building a Winning team for the long term that we've had the last 17 years.
No more selling out our youth for guys like Melo. Melo is all about Melo and some fans still support this fraud!!! I want players that lay it on the line for this team and play with PRIDE and PASSION for the Knicks.

THIS.

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is Melo's only options.... expand his list of teams he would go to or honor his contact. He has to show up and play. If he doesn't want to cooperate... he can sit on the bench or get ordered to stay away. Get fined from the team and all that. That's not a bad thing. It shows our young players nothing and no one is above the team. Its the team that matters. There are 14 other players careers to build, not just one.

I've seen you push this narrative about a dozen times on this forum and it makes absolutely zero sense at all.

Can you suspend a player for behavior detrimental to his team? Yes. But you do have to align to previous discipline precedent within the league history and structure.

The standard to do so for a player with a NTC that the franchise clearly wants to trade has to be higher in this case. We are talking murder, outright gambling on the NBA or some type of violent felony caught on tape and uploaded to YouTube somewhere.

If you bench him, you'll have much of the same issues around the league. The Knicks don't have enough talent to bench Melo and justify it if he's healthy.

It will all look EXACTLY like you want it to be - Trying to leverage a suspension or benching to get him to waive his NTC to more teams than currently. This is a violation of the CBA. It's going to generate a conflict with the agents, the other owners, the NBAPA and Adam Silver. Not to mention the sports media. And every pocket that Leon Rose and CAA has their hands in right now.

When Zinger went AWOL and decided to go no contact to get Phil Jackson fired and Jackson got fired, then it's already been proven that he is above the team. His behavior was unacceptable, and the Knick rewarded him for it.

Not to mention all the times Melo ball stopped, chucked it, and acted like a coach killing diva, and guess what, the Knicks enabled him. So they've already established he's above the team as well.

The thing you don't seem to calculate is the Knicks need to move Melo before the open risk of injury becomes possible. Players get hurt. Older players get hurt. Older players who have poor conditioning get hurt. If Melo gets hurt as a Knick to start this season, he might opt in if the injury is bad enough and the Knicks will have zero chance to trade him. As well as eat the constant distraction being on the roster causes.

This doesn't even begin to factor in the damage Melo can cause while skirting any behavior that would guarantee a suspension. If he wants a buyout at full pay, he can simply become a truly toxic element in the locker room and media until the Knicks break down. Players do it all the time. We all saw KeyShawn Johnson do it with the Jets.

Knicks move him in a trade, they have to take back a bad contract of some kind. There is no way around it. Other people here have tried to come up with scenarios to avoid it, and there is simply no way around it. Not at that AAV and with that trade kicker.

Knicks don't move him in a trade, he poisons the roster and the season with the distraction and his patented selfish play and anti-team basketball behavior. He has every incentive to do as much as he can without crossing the line to get actually suspended to try to drive the Knicks to buy him out at full salary. So he can chase a ring, sign where he wants and still sign a 4 year deal in the offseason to skirt under the new Over 38 Rule.

This is a LOSE/LOSE situation. The question is how much can the Knicks mitigate the damage here to minimize the hit taken to get him off the roster.

This is a salvage job, pure and simple. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

If Melo will get hurt or became toxic Knicks should stretch him and they should do it sometimes after he cannot join any playoff team.
Simple and effective.

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is Melo's only options.... expand his list of teams he would go to or honor his contact. He has to show up and play. If he doesn't want to cooperate... he can sit on the bench or get ordered to stay away. Get fined from the team and all that. That's not a bad thing. It shows our young players nothing and no one is above the team. Its the team that matters. There are 14 other players careers to build, not just one.

I've seen you push this narrative about a dozen times on this forum and it makes absolutely zero sense at all.

Can you suspend a player for behavior detrimental to his team? Yes. But you do have to align to previous discipline precedent within the league history and structure.

The standard to do so for a player with a NTC that the franchise clearly wants to trade has to be higher in this case. We are talking murder, outright gambling on the NBA or some type of violent felony caught on tape and uploaded to YouTube somewhere.

If you bench him, you'll have much of the same issues around the league. The Knicks don't have enough talent to bench Melo and justify it if he's healthy.

It will all look EXACTLY like you want it to be - Trying to leverage a suspension or benching to get him to waive his NTC to more teams than currently. This is a violation of the CBA. It's going to generate a conflict with the agents, the other owners, the NBAPA and Adam Silver. Not to mention the sports media. And every pocket that Leon Rose and CAA has their hands in right now.

When Zinger went AWOL and decided to go no contact to get Phil Jackson fired and Jackson got fired, then it's already been proven that he is above the team. His behavior was unacceptable, and the Knick rewarded him for it.

Not to mention all the times Melo ball stopped, chucked it, and acted like a coach killing diva, and guess what, the Knicks enabled him. So they've already established he's above the team as well.

The thing you don't seem to calculate is the Knicks need to move Melo before the open risk of injury becomes possible. Players get hurt. Older players get hurt. Older players who have poor conditioning get hurt. If Melo gets hurt as a Knick to start this season, he might opt in if the injury is bad enough and the Knicks will have zero chance to trade him. As well as eat the constant distraction being on the roster causes.

This doesn't even begin to factor in the damage Melo can cause while skirting any behavior that would guarantee a suspension. If he wants a buyout at full pay, he can simply become a truly toxic element in the locker room and media until the Knicks break down. Players do it all the time. We all saw KeyShawn Johnson do it with the Jets.

Knicks move him in a trade, they have to take back a bad contract of some kind. There is no way around it. Other people here have tried to come up with scenarios to avoid it, and there is simply no way around it. Not at that AAV and with that trade kicker.

Knicks don't move him in a trade, he poisons the roster and the season with the distraction and his patented selfish play and anti-team basketball behavior. He has every incentive to do as much as he can without crossing the line to get actually suspended to try to drive the Knicks to buy him out at full salary. So he can chase a ring, sign where he wants and still sign a 4 year deal in the offseason to skirt under the new Over 38 Rule.

This is a LOSE/LOSE situation. The question is how much can the Knicks mitigate the damage here to minimize the hit taken to get him off the roster.

This is a salvage job, pure and simple. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Welpee wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

arkrud wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

EnySpree wrote:This is Melo's only options.... expand his list of teams he would go to or honor his contact. He has to show up and play. If he doesn't want to cooperate... he can sit on the bench or get ordered to stay away. Get fined from the team and all that. That's not a bad thing. It shows our young players nothing and no one is above the team. Its the team that matters. There are 14 other players careers to build, not just one.

I've seen you push this narrative about a dozen times on this forum and it makes absolutely zero sense at all.

Can you suspend a player for behavior detrimental to his team? Yes. But you do have to align to previous discipline precedent within the league history and structure.

The standard to do so for a player with a NTC that the franchise clearly wants to trade has to be higher in this case. We are talking murder, outright gambling on the NBA or some type of violent felony caught on tape and uploaded to YouTube somewhere.

If you bench him, you'll have much of the same issues around the league. The Knicks don't have enough talent to bench Melo and justify it if he's healthy.

It will all look EXACTLY like you want it to be - Trying to leverage a suspension or benching to get him to waive his NTC to more teams than currently. This is a violation of the CBA. It's going to generate a conflict with the agents, the other owners, the NBAPA and Adam Silver. Not to mention the sports media. And every pocket that Leon Rose and CAA has their hands in right now.

When Zinger went AWOL and decided to go no contact to get Phil Jackson fired and Jackson got fired, then it's already been proven that he is above the team. His behavior was unacceptable, and the Knick rewarded him for it.

Not to mention all the times Melo ball stopped, chucked it, and acted like a coach killing diva, and guess what, the Knicks enabled him. So they've already established he's above the team as well.

The thing you don't seem to calculate is the Knicks need to move Melo before the open risk of injury becomes possible. Players get hurt. Older players get hurt. Older players who have poor conditioning get hurt. If Melo gets hurt as a Knick to start this season, he might opt in if the injury is bad enough and the Knicks will have zero chance to trade him. As well as eat the constant distraction being on the roster causes.

This doesn't even begin to factor in the damage Melo can cause while skirting any behavior that would guarantee a suspension. If he wants a buyout at full pay, he can simply become a truly toxic element in the locker room and media until the Knicks break down. Players do it all the time. We all saw KeyShawn Johnson do it with the Jets.

Knicks move him in a trade, they have to take back a bad contract of some kind. There is no way around it. Other people here have tried to come up with scenarios to avoid it, and there is simply no way around it. Not at that AAV and with that trade kicker.

Knicks don't move him in a trade, he poisons the roster and the season with the distraction and his patented selfish play and anti-team basketball behavior. He has every incentive to do as much as he can without crossing the line to get actually suspended to try to drive the Knicks to buy him out at full salary. So he can chase a ring, sign where he wants and still sign a 4 year deal in the offseason to skirt under the new Over 38 Rule.

This is a LOSE/LOSE situation. The question is how much can the Knicks mitigate the damage here to minimize the hit taken to get him off the roster.

This is a salvage job, pure and simple. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

If Melo will get hurt or became toxic Knicks should stretch him and they should do it sometimes after he cannot join any playoff team.
Simple and effective.

He whined his way into coming here and NY gave up assets for him. He is truly an ***.

I have always said that he needs to be marBURY'd. Tell him that he is not part of the plans and while they tried to trade him, no offers are satisfying for the team going forward. Since he is not part of the plans, until he is traded or his contract is up, pay him to stay AWAY from the team.

This is the best way to deal with a team killer like him.

Whined his way into coming here? WTF! When you bought your house or your last car did you "whine your way" into getting the best deal possible? Funny how when an athlete has leverage and uses it, it's "whining." I'll be the first to admit that Melo is about his money but calling that situation "whining" is just stupid and reflects an anti-Melo bias. I'm fine with people not liking Melo but there's no need making up stuff to bash him. There's enough legit stuff out there to bash him about.

No doubt it is not only Melo fault that he was not surrounded with winning competitive team in NY.
But he has his hand into this a lot.
When he joined the team in a trade clearly stripping the team from any assets to improve and then resign by just doing the same it shows that he never was looking to win in NY.
Granted the organization was also not so much concerned about winning.
So it was union of like-minded people.
But situation around the team is changed (supposedly) so time to go the separate ways is it trade, or any other way of separation Melo from the team.
Of course if he want to be a part of the process it will great.
But I am doubtful that he has the ability to sacrifice his playing time, role, style of play, and claiming up all-time scorers list to build a contender.
I would be glad zo if I am mistaken.

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

arkrud wrote:When he joined the team in a trade clearly stripping the team from any assets to improve and then resign by just doing the same it shows that he never was looking to win in NY.

I still don't know how people think this is true.

Unless the argument is they expected Melo to sign for a LOT less than Stat was playing for, this is fiction.

The Knicks could not have afforded Melo-Gallo-Chandler-Mosgov.

Chandler was an upcoming RFA, they couldn't have spun him off in a trade. Mosgov had no real value. As it turns out, a player the KNicks got back, who they released immediately, Corey Brewer as gone on to be more productive than Mozgov (outside his LBJ-fueled Cavs stint) since the trade.

People also forget Felton started out strong that season but was tanking by the time of the trade. Billups was an upgrade.

At best, you could argue if he signed as a free agent the Knicks would still have Felton, no way to get Chandler, and Gallo and their 2014 pick.

Not to mention the picks we gave up wouldn't have been franchise changing picks: #12 in 2014 (Dario Saric chosen/Zach LaVine available) and #7 (swapped for #9) in 2016 (Jamal Murray). Gallo was the best player moved and he played Melo's position so we couldn't have kept him anyway. Everybody else we gave up we replaced relatively easily with players off the scrape heap or via free agency. You're right, this myth about us giving up so much for Melo has become a huge fish story. Quantity doesn't equal quality. And I'm glad you mentioned Billups because people conveniently forget we got him in the deal too.

It was defensively right business decision for Melo and I have no issues with this.
It was also right business decision for Dolan.
But is was nothing to do with trying to build winning team.
And both Melo and Dolan were well aware about it.
So when both sides get what they want ($$$) it is time to wash the hands clean and move on.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote: Since he is not part of the plans, until he is traded or his contract is up, pay him to stay AWAY from the team.

This is the best way to deal with a team killer like him.

While I agree with you in substance, and wish this was entirely possible in an ideal sense, it's not pragmatic.

How much do courtside seats cost? How much to luxury private game suites cost a season?

I love Ron Baker, I do. Tough player. Full of grit and guts and willpower. But people paying big money for seats are not paying to see Ron Baker. They are paying to see the Chris Paul players, the Blake Griffins, the LeBron James, the Anthony Davis types, and yes, even the sad sack ball stopping hero ball team and coach killer in Melo. When the Knicks go on the road, Melo isn't there to operate as a draw for marketing if he's benched or at home. Other owners won't like it.

Corporate sponsors won't like it. ESPN and TNT and whomever will say, we spent billions on this, and you are telling me one of the more marketable players is not playing and it's not because of injury? They complain to Silver, Silver does something to the Knicks.

Gregg Poppovich sat Duncan, Parker and Ginobili in a game a while back. They were older players, they needed more rest, it was the regular season. But it was a nationally televised game. Stern blew his lid. The Spurs got fined. If they kept doing it, he probably would have stripped them of picks.

Melo might be a team killing douchebag. But he's a team killing douchebag that Gatorade wants to see when they pay out the nose for commercial time during an NBA broadcast.

I get it, I get where you are coming from. Your frustrations are the same as mine. But I'm telling you, there is no practical way to bench a healthy Melo without massive negative fallback from the league, NBAPA, sponsors, the networks and other owners.

Gilbert Arenas brought GUNS INTO HIS LOCKER ROOM. And he didn't get the boot until he mocked Stern from the court. Stern was going to let him keep playing. Think about that for a second, the kind of action Melo would need to do to get a suspension or a benching that would survive league and union and corporate scrutiny.

Domestic Violence Against Women. In Public. Uploaded to social media.

That's it. That's the only thing he could do where he could be suspended without pay for the rest of the season and still have some lingering late trade value still. Every other instance ( murder, gambling on the NBA, pedophilia, being a terrorist, etc) would all get him banned from the league for life. Other than that, he remains a Knicks ongoing problem.

arkrud wrote:Why people will come to see Melo as a Knick? To see something out of place and out of purpose?

Even when you suck as a pro sports franchise in America, you will still get some exposure in national TV broadcast from the networks that spend BILLIONS to air those games. Those networks sell commercial time and adspace and have deals with other corporations and businesses. Clorox buys commercial time during an NBA game. Melo is being used in the advertising for the game. But he's not in the game. He's hurt? No, he's benched. Why? Did he beat a woman in public? Did he rape someone? Did he murder someone? For being a douchebag who doesn't play defense and ball stops? While that's a mark on Melo as a failure as a leader, as a professional and as a NY Knick, that's not enough to suspend him. Benching him is going to be seen as a leverage move to get him to waive his NTC to more teams, which is actually what it would be.

These sponsors say, why am I spending X millions for an inferior product. They are not happy. Fans spending big dollars for courtside seats say, why am I spending thousands for an inferior product. They are not happy. The networks say, why am I spending BILLIONS of dollars for an inferior product, they are not happy.

Even the Jets, in their massive recent suckatude, get an occasional Monday Night Football slate.

The NBA loves controversy, to some degree. They love the First Take ESPN BS where people argue if Westbrook and Durant hate each other. They do not love the version where someone is beating their wife. Or a team and player are just going to war as a zero sum game.

Suspending Melo is not that easy. Again, as I said before, it will have to ALIGN WITH PREVIOUS LEAGUE PRECEDENT in some fashion. And sadly, the NBA tolerance level from players acting like crap is pretty low compared to other sports.

Benching him, esp as he has a NTC and he's a power player in the NBAPA is going to be next to impossible without backlash from the other owners, the networks, the sponsors, Leon Rose and CAA, the agents, the other players and the NBAPA. The end result is inciting a future "labor issue" during the next CBA fight or lockout that no one wants.

I understand people's frustrations, I truly do. It's a sucky situation. Melo sucks and he's dragging this team down with him.

I'm going to put this a simpler way. You guys can follow EnySpree's viewpoint of how things are going to shake out. Or you can follow mine. Do you guys want to follow the viewpoint of a guy who can't even post legal trades in trade rape threads when there's a tab linking to the NBA trade machine above? The guy can't/won't even use Google to understand basic NBA marketplace concepts. This is almost Seinfeld like. If EnySpree says, the Knicks are in the drivers seat. Be rest assured, think the opposite and that's probably going to be the correct assessment of reality. The Knicks are no where near the drivers seat here.