[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

If we keep Melo, Tim Hardaway contract makes no sense, and we need to play him at the 4
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
nyknickzingis
Posts: 23029
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207
7/14/2017  6:29 AM
That would be 25, 17 + 12 for a total of 54M on wings like Melo, THj and Lee.
In particular 25+17 for two wings who play very similar roles is weird.

But this lineup will be able to score the ball

Porzingis/Hernangomez
Melo
Hardaway
Lee
Baker/Ntilikina

I just don't see what the plan is here. If you keep Melo, you need to use him as a 4, and you need to invest more in a guard that can shoot, drive and pass. Someone like George Hill went for THj money (57/3). We needed to sign a guy like that if we wanted to make the playoffs and put a good team around KP/Melo.

I have to think this is trade talk mind games, but if we keep Melo, I think the Hardaway contract makes absolutely no sense. Should have gone after a George Hill.
AUTOADVERT
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397
7/14/2017  6:53 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:That would be 25, 17 + 12 for a total of 54M on wings like Melo, THj and Lee.
In particular 25+17 for two wings who play very similar roles is weird.

But this lineup will be able to score the ball

Porzingis/Hernangomez
Melo
Hardaway
Lee
Baker/Ntilikina

I just don't see what the plan is here. If you keep Melo, you need to use him as a 4, and you need to invest more in a guard that can shoot, drive and pass. Someone like George Hill went for THj money (57/3). We needed to sign a guy like that if we wanted to make the playoffs and put a good team around KP/Melo.

I have to think this is trade talk mind games, but if we keep Melo, I think the Hardaway contract makes absolutely no sense. Should have gone after a George Hill.

George Hill wanted to win now that's why he went to Sacramento... that's a joke.

If Melo stays, what difference does it make. We're projected to lose anyway. That's not a joke

Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
nyknickzingis
Posts: 23029
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207
7/14/2017  7:10 AM
I just don't see Tim Hardaway getting the shots and looks he did in Atlanta if Melo is on the wing. Offense and team will defer to Melo.
Melo is a high usage high shot taking player.
Will help the team score more points, but I think player development will be impacted.

Doesn't affect me personally this is Mills work and he has to answer to Dolan.
I was just excited at the prospect of getting more ball movement, some youth, and new faces getting to shine.
TheGame
Posts: 26639
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/15/2006
Member: #1154
USA
7/14/2017  7:13 AM
We need to keep Melo until a trade develops that makes sense for the team. The Hardaway signing made little sense even if Melo was traded because you don't overpay for a defensive challenged SG who only has average efficiency at scoring. It's done now. The hope is that Hardaway continues to improve and that Ntik can actually play and run the team because I know Baker is going to be only a so-so pg.
Trust the Process
Sinix
Posts: 20452
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/21/2017
Member: #7495
7/14/2017  7:20 AM
TheGame wrote:We need to keep Melo until a trade develops that makes sense for the team. The Hardaway signing made little sense even if Melo was traded because you don't overpay for a defensive challenged SG who only has average efficiency at scoring. It's done now. The hope is that Hardaway continues to improve and that Ntik can actually play and run the team because I know Baker is going to be only a so-so pg.

The Knicks front office and fans are delusional. Melo is a 32 year old inefficient offensive player with weak defense and no ball movement. He couldn't fetch us Austin rivers last season and he's not going to bring in more as he gets older and as it gets harder to trade him once the season starts.

It's not other teams that have to come to terms with offering more, it's the Knicks that have to come to terms with what Melo is.
nyknickzingis
Posts: 23029
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207
7/14/2017  7:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2017  7:31 AM
TheGame wrote:We need to keep Melo until a trade develops that makes sense for the team. The Hardaway signing made little sense even if Melo was traded because you don't overpay for a defensive challenged SG who only has average efficiency at scoring. It's done now. The hope is that Hardaway continues to improve and that Ntik can actually play and run the team because I know Baker is going to be only a so-so pg.

Hardaway would get more shots without Melo. Simple distribution. In Atlanta, their SF and SG spots, they didn't really have a guy to go to. Hardaway became that guy. That's why he was able to fill in a 15 ppg niche role.

In NY, that was what I exepected as a floor from him.

If we bring back Melo, it's sort of like JR Smith playing off Melo. Not going to be that pretty. Been there, done that. Only now you're paying Timmy 17$M a year to be a 10 points a game sniper playing off Melo and KP. I don't think that was the plan.

Here is what Knicks insider reporter Ian Begley said at the time Timmy was signed

"In no way or scenario do the Knicks envision playing Tim Hardaway and Melo together"

The move was made for Timmy to come in and be a 15-17 points a night wing scoter, get isolations, get some PnR, catch and shoots, all stuff that Melo will get. It was not made in any shape or form with Melo in mind.

Knicks front office are already seeing the effects of not having Phil. They're second guessing themselves. I hope I'm wrong, but keeping Melo with Hardaway will be a collosal mistake for all involved. That's why I liked Phil. He had balls. He didn't second guess himself. The Knicks should not have signed Tim if they were going to even think about keeping Melo. I am ok with keeping Melo, if you want to move him to 4. But go out and sign the guy Perry (ironically our new GM) signed for his former team - George Hill. Hill should have gotten the Hardaway money. Crazy bad decision making by us, if this holds out and Melo starts the season for the Knicks, while having spent 71$M on Hardaway to replace him with.
Nalod
Posts: 71546
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
7/14/2017  7:46 AM
Melo Sixth man of the year!!!!
Add to his HOF cred!!!
OR Timmy at the 2, Lee off the bench if not traded. Dotson cannot be counted on to be in rotation yet.
Way too much up in the air. Melo got recruited to Texas thinking he good there or in Cleveland and PHil was gonna buy him out.
Mills don't play that. He is playing his own game with Melo and his agents.
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/14/2017  7:57 AM
Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
7/14/2017  8:03 AM
For Melo trade to happen all sides involved will need to sacrifice something if they really want the deal done Melo included.
You cannot get something for nothing.
Just trading Melo for any cost is not a goal for the Knicks.
They can manage Melo in many ways.
Are Rocket really interested in Melo and is Melo really interested in challenging himself?
I doubt it.
So trade is unlikely to happened.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Sinix
Posts: 20452
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/21/2017
Member: #7495
7/14/2017  8:10 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

Melo is protecting the Knicks future now. What did I tell you? Knicks fans are the most delusional in sports.

We've been watching him for like a decade and they still haven't come to terms that he's 32 and getting older, doesn't play defense or pass the ball and isn't that great on offense anymore.
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801
7/14/2017  9:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2017  9:40 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

LOL -now keeping Melo is protecting the future

- Keep Melo
- Ensure mediocrity and that we end up well outside the lottery
- Continue drama through media
- Continue to chew out young players who want to play the game the right way
- Make sure KP doesn't get the offense to flow through him

Man that future is looking brighter by the minute

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
7/14/2017  9:41 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

LOL -now keeping Melo is protecting the future

- Keep Melo
- Ensure mediocrity and that we end up well outside the lottery
- Continue drama through media
- Continue to chew out young players who want to play the game the right way
- Make sure KP doesn't get the offense to follow through him

Man that future is looking brighter by the minute


Clearly what he is saying is that avoiding worse/longer contracts is protecting the future.
HofstraBBall
Posts: 28047
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 11/21/2015
Member: #6192
7/14/2017  9:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2017  9:44 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

LOL -now keeping Melo is protecting the future

- Keep Melo
- Ensure mediocrity and that we end up well outside the lottery
- Continue drama through media
- Continue to chew out young players who want to play the game the right way
- Make sure KP doesn't get the offense to flow through him

Man that future is looking brighter by the minute

This!! Interesting article on your position:

https://www.google.com/amp/ftw.usatoday.com/2017/02/jeremy-lin-jimmy-neutron-hair-style-photo-amazing/amp

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
WaltLongmire
Posts: 27623
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 6/28/2014
Member: #5843
7/14/2017  10:45 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

No way he opts out, though. He is not going to get more money from another team than he is getting from the Knicks...He will make almost $28M the final year of his contract...anyone think another team will offer him that much if he opts out?

I'm assuming that he will NOT opt out, so if you want to trade him, you would be betting that his game will not decline to the point where you won't get the kind of offer you might get for him now.

You also screw with a young team's chemistry, and having Melo teamed with Hardaway again will set him back. How does the team develop new leaders if we keep a diva on the team...a guy who seemingly went after KP for being honest last year.

I can see why MDA does not want Anthony back...how is he going to be part of a motion offense? Keeping him here means we limit KP, Willie, KOQ, and remember, we also have Noah to deal with.

Time to move on, and I would do it ASAP. Using him as a 6th man will cause him to act up behind the scenes, and it devalues him to the point where you will make it improbable that he will opt out because his value would have gone down so much.

Of course I don't want to take on bad contracts...no way. I would take less in value if it meant not taking on bad deals made by other teams.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
nyknickzingis
Posts: 23029
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207
7/14/2017  10:54 AM
Said two months ago, I have little problem with keeping Melo if the trade return for him sucks.
However this was before free agency and even the draft.
I even was happier with Melo staying with Frank was our pick, as with Melo, Frank will have to do less creating and Melo can play some point forward to get the offense going at times. Melo has point skills, he doesn't always use them,

What was absolutely neccessary was that decision be made BEFORE the free agent period.
Well, it was. Then they re-made it.
Mills looks in over his head or doesn't know what the heck he is doing.

Somehow they have even gotten Melo to believe he should move on to Houston or Cle, and got him excited, only now to try and force him to stay in NY. I actually feel bad for Melo, as I can see him going "Ok, they want to re-build, I'll waive my NTC. Get excited about playing with CP3/Harden. Wait, I gotta go back to NY now?".

We are totally messing this up if we keep Melo after convinving him to go, shopping him to death, then signing a replacement (not in the same level of a player, but in terms of the role Hardaway would play) to a massive make good contract, only to now force him to stay and try to play with a young team that will struggle to win 35 games with Melo.

Horrible plan.
If we didn't like the Melo trade return, the moment Phil was removed, we needed to keep Melo and try to convince him to recruit CP3 via trade, or try to sign George Hill.

What a complete **** up by Mills and Dolan if they wind up playing Melo, Hardaway and Lee on opening night. I really hope this is not the final plan, because Mills would have learned nothing about winning basketball games or how to develop young players from Phil in the last 3 years.

I even feel bad for Melo, because according to reports he doesn't even want to stay anymore, he is ready to move on. Think about knowing you are about to play with CP3 and Harden and try to win a ring and accept that as reality ... and then having to go back to a team with a large portion of the fanbase and front office that wants to trade you and the ceiling of the team with you is 35 wins.

Mills/Perry but have something lined up because this plan sucks.
nyknickzingis
Posts: 23029
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/8/2015
Member: #6207
7/14/2017  11:00 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

No way he opts out, though. He is not going to get more money from another team than he is getting from the Knicks...He will make almost $28M the final year of his contract...anyone think another team will offer him that much if he opts out?

I'm assuming that he will NOT opt out, so if you want to trade him, you would be betting that his game will not decline to the point where you won't get the kind of offer you might get for him now.

You also screw with a young team's chemistry, and having Melo teamed with Hardaway again will set him back. How does the team develop new leaders if we keep a diva on the team...a guy who seemingly went after KP for being honest last year.

I can see why MDA does not want Anthony back...how is he going to be part of a motion offense? Keeping him here means we limit KP, Willie, KOQ, and remember, we also have Noah to deal with.

Time to move on, and I would do it ASAP. Using him as a 6th man will cause him to act up behind the scenes, and it devalues him to the point where you will make it improbable that he will opt out because his value would have gone down so much.

Of course I don't want to take on bad contracts...no way. I would take less in value if it meant not taking on bad deals made by other teams.


I think he will opt out because teams like the Lakers will have massive capspace and a potential plan where Melo can team up with either Lebron James or Paul George while still having Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram and some other good young players. The Lakers would max out Melo in that scenario for a 3 year deal. 28M is less guaranteed money than $75-90M that I think Melo can get. Paul Millsap got 90/3. Gallinari got 65/3. Scoring big forwards who make all-star teams like Melo will get paid. A year later, he'll be 35 almost, and I can't see a team willing to pay him as much as they would a year from now.
RonRon
Posts: 25531
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
7/14/2017  11:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2017  11:36 AM
IMO they signed Tim Hardaway JR in order to satisfy Coach HOrny's uptempo/pushing ball system/philsophy

basically, penetration with 3pt shooting to space/floor, with multiple players that can handle the ball/provide 3pt shooting to open lanes up for layups/dunks


there is no doubt that Dennis Smith JR is the much better player right now than our possible GREEK FREAK at PG
It is a couple years down the road before we see if Ntlikina will develop to his potential or higher

Can Tim Hardaway continue to improve?
He is much better than he was when he played for us but it can be said that it is also a small sample size

his contract is similar to Orlando's Fournier
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
7/14/2017  11:38 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

No way he opts out, though. He is not going to get more money from another team than he is getting from the Knicks...He will make almost $28M the final year of his contract...anyone think another team will offer him that much if he opts out?

I'm assuming that he will NOT opt out, so if you want to trade him, you would be betting that his game will not decline to the point where you won't get the kind of offer you might get for him now.

You also screw with a young team's chemistry, and having Melo teamed with Hardaway again will set him back. How does the team develop new leaders if we keep a diva on the team...a guy who seemingly went after KP for being honest last year.

I can see why MDA does not want Anthony back...how is he going to be part of a motion offense? Keeping him here means we limit KP, Willie, KOQ, and remember, we also have Noah to deal with.

Time to move on, and I would do it ASAP. Using him as a 6th man will cause him to act up behind the scenes, and it devalues him to the point where you will make it improbable that he will opt out because his value would have gone down so much.

Of course I don't want to take on bad contracts...no way. I would take less in value if it meant not taking on bad deals made by other teams.


I think he will opt out because teams like the Lakers will have massive capspace and a potential plan where Melo can team up with either Lebron James or Paul George while still having Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram and some other good young players. The Lakers would max out Melo in that scenario for a 3 year deal. 28M is less guaranteed money than $75-90M that I think Melo can get. Paul Millsap got 90/3. Gallinari got 65/3. Scoring big forwards who make all-star teams like Melo will get paid. A year later, he'll be 35 almost, and I can't see a team willing to pay him as much as they would a year from now.

You assume that Melo will be healthy and will show no decline in his play on yet another lottery bound Knicks team.
You better play Lottery man. Much more chances to became a millionaire that Melo going away before his contract with Knick expired.
He may not be the greatest mind ever but he is smart enough not to lose money for nothing. Especially right before retirement.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
7/14/2017  11:54 AM
arkrud wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:
WaltLongmire wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Hardaway was signed to be a part of the future. Keeping Melo maybe protecting the future. If Melo opts out his deal is on the books for one more year. One more year of Melo is a better option then three more years of bad contracts.

No way he opts out, though. He is not going to get more money from another team than he is getting from the Knicks...He will make almost $28M the final year of his contract...anyone think another team will offer him that much if he opts out?

I'm assuming that he will NOT opt out, so if you want to trade him, you would be betting that his game will not decline to the point where you won't get the kind of offer you might get for him now.

You also screw with a young team's chemistry, and having Melo teamed with Hardaway again will set him back. How does the team develop new leaders if we keep a diva on the team...a guy who seemingly went after KP for being honest last year.

I can see why MDA does not want Anthony back...how is he going to be part of a motion offense? Keeping him here means we limit KP, Willie, KOQ, and remember, we also have Noah to deal with.

Time to move on, and I would do it ASAP. Using him as a 6th man will cause him to act up behind the scenes, and it devalues him to the point where you will make it improbable that he will opt out because his value would have gone down so much.

Of course I don't want to take on bad contracts...no way. I would take less in value if it meant not taking on bad deals made by other teams.


I think he will opt out because teams like the Lakers will have massive capspace and a potential plan where Melo can team up with either Lebron James or Paul George while still having Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram and some other good young players. The Lakers would max out Melo in that scenario for a 3 year deal. 28M is less guaranteed money than $75-90M that I think Melo can get. Paul Millsap got 90/3. Gallinari got 65/3. Scoring big forwards who make all-star teams like Melo will get paid. A year later, he'll be 35 almost, and I can't see a team willing to pay him as much as they would a year from now.

You assume that Melo will be healthy and will show no decline in his play on yet another lottery bound Knicks team.
You better play Lottery man. Much more chances to became a millionaire that Melo going away before his contract with Knick expired.
He may not be the greatest mind ever but he is smart enough not to lose money for nothing. Especially right before retirement.

He missed out on joining the Heat in 2010 because he wanted an extra year of guaranteed money. He has an opportunity to hook up with his buddies again if he opts out It will be interesting. My guess is if Melo is on the team after the deadline next season the Knicks try to Rambis him into an opt out.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
meloshouldgo
Posts: 26565
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/3/2014
Member: #5801
7/14/2017  8:47 PM
That contract doesn't make sense whether we keep Melo or not. But it makes even less sense if we keep him.
I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
If we keep Melo, Tim Hardaway contract makes no sense, and we need to play him at the 4
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy