I hate Melo more than 99% of the NY fans in the world but if we have to live with him another year so be it --- he's still a talented player, I don't think he'd be unhappy with Phil gone and the triangle out the door -- so we could have a decent year with scorers like Melo/KP/Timmy carrying the load. I also think we could add Rondo to that mix.
Plus Frank playing off Melo/Timmy/KP/Willy -- might work well because he can just fit in rather than potentially having to score more.

If Melo stays -- he is likely to opt out next summer --- freeing up significant CAP space for us ---- rather then us potentially taking back large 2-3 year deals in a Melo trade today.

If the Rockets come back with a better offer --- we take it.

No harm, no foul IMO.

Uptown wrote:

Vmart wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Vmart wrote:This is a good good move by the Knicks. But only good if the real intent is to move him. Bringing him back is absolutely disaster for the future of the Knicks.

Did you use the word "Knicks" and "good move" in the same sentence lol No way by knows what they're doing here. This is the Chauncey Billups amnesty all over again. Don't try to connect any dots. It's like trying to make sense of a paranoid schizophrenic's journal.

Melo is already in Houston and the Rockets player say all the right things about Melo but secretly I'm sure they don't want him. I know for a fact MDA definitely doesn't want him. Next still up Cleveland.

You know MDA personally? I'm pretty sure Chris Paul wants to play ball with him...

It's amazing the things you can know by what people don't actually say. It's like a miracle...

He has been healthy and he takes good care of himself. If he gets hurt he will look after himself first and foremost. Forget its Melo and any preconceptions about him for a moment.
We talking about a 33 year old with 56mil on his deal and a opt out next year but a penchant to protect his career and its not like we are gunning for a chip this year. He or any pro won't sacrifice his body for less than.
So he gets hurt or a chronic condition exibits he will sit to get well, and his value is less. Just logic.
So at this moment in time he is healthy, teams do want him.

Its complicated, its posturing, and nothing is guaranteed. Seems as if the process is we don't want Ryan Anderson.
Tell me how Melo will hold up, I can predict some outcomes. Tell me how receptive Melo is to staying, I'll predict some outcomes.
Tell me he'll not hold the ball for Kiyan, I'll cry. Great father.

LivingLegend wrote:I think the Knicks have the leverage here.

I hate Melo more than 99% of the NY fans in the world but if we have to live with him another year so be it --- he's still a talented player, I don't think he'd be unhappy with Phil gone and the triangle out the door -- so we could have a decent year with scorers like Melo/KP/Timmy carrying the load. I also think we could add Rondo to that mix.
Plus Frank playing off Melo/Timmy/KP/Willy -- might work well because he can just fit in rather than potentially having to score more.

If Melo stays -- he is likely to opt out next summer --- freeing up significant CAP space for us ---- rather then us potentially taking back large 2-3 year deals in a Melo trade today.

If the Rockets come back with a better offer --- we take it.

No harm, no foul IMO.

Melo doesn't get easier to trade a year from now when he's older and even worse and he's not opting out of near 30 million when no one will pay him that much again.

You guys need to understand what a depreciating asset is. They don't increase in value. They decrease.

LivingLegend wrote:I think the Knicks have the leverage here.

I hate Melo more than 99% of the NY fans in the world but if we have to live with him another year so be it --- he's still a talented player, I don't think he'd be unhappy with Phil gone and the triangle out the door -- so we could have a decent year with scorers like Melo/KP/Timmy carrying the load. I also think we could add Rondo to that mix.
Plus Frank playing off Melo/Timmy/KP/Willy -- might work well because he can just fit in rather than potentially having to score more.

If Melo stays -- he is likely to opt out next summer --- freeing up significant CAP space for us ---- rather then us potentially taking back large 2-3 year deals in a Melo trade today.

If the Rockets come back with a better offer --- we take it.

No harm, no foul IMO.

If our resident DOUCHE manages to opt out next summer, so be it. That would possibly mean he just finished a great season for us, and truly doesn't GAF about winning here. Or that we sucked so much worse that there is no hope of winning here.

Not sure what Houston can offer that we want, that they're actually willing to part with anyway? Really low first round draft picks? Thanks, I've seen enough John Wallaces and Walter McCartys to last me a lifetime...

Knickoftime wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Ira wrote:My problems with keeping Melo are first, he's not a great player anymore and will get worse. Second, he's not a great fit. On offense, he plays isolation basketball and slows the teams ball movement whenever the ball comes to him. On defense - well he doesn't play much defense.

Every gm knows this and is ahead of the curve.

That why it was beyond stupid to take the position that if Phil talked Melo up, somehow it would fool some other GM to believe Melo isn't what he is.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest people in the room. They often prove to be the dumbest.

No, Phil couldn't talk up Melo to improve his trade value, but he certainly can talk him down to further decrease it. And when you put it out there that you want to trade Melo you further erode the lack of leverage you're already dealing with. It's like buying a car. If the dealer knows 100% you need to walk off the lot with a vehicle you're not getting anywhere near a decent deal.

What world do you live in where all other GM's don't get access to the same 82 games we just saw Melo play, the advanced metric stats and it's not a job they are getting paid multi millions to understand who and what Melo is more than you.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest in room. NY arrogance? We consistently prove we are the dumbest.

And what world do you live in where GMs know 100% of what goes on in every organization? Of course everybody has access to video and stats. But if Phil (through his mouthpiece Charlie Rosen) starts floating negative behind the scenes narratives about their player what do you think that does to his already compromised trade value? It sure as heck doesn't improve it.

If I know it, what makes you think the rest of the GM's around the league don't?

This is their livelihood to know this stuff and they have unlimited resources to get the job done.

You think it's a secret Melo is getting older, doesn't play defense and doesn't move the ball and is resistant to the idea of improving on these fundamental team concepts?

No one who gets a GM job is stupid enough to not see these things. Unless the Knicks & Dolan hire them.

Then the Rockets (and possibly Cavs) interest is totally made up by the media and there is no trade to be made anyway.

What is your point then? The Knicks were stupid not to make the trade you argue no team wants to make?

Huh?

It's definitely a possibility the cavs and rockets interest is greatly embellished.

No one is giving us anything good for melo. Look at the returns on Butler and George. Melo is a fraction of the player they are in comparison.

Knicks need to stop looking for the fleece and get rid of melo anyway they can, now, before the season starts.

Other teams know we need to get rid of him for good reason and they aren't wrong.

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Ira wrote:My problems with keeping Melo are first, he's not a great player anymore and will get worse. Second, he's not a great fit. On offense, he plays isolation basketball and slows the teams ball movement whenever the ball comes to him. On defense - well he doesn't play much defense.

Every gm knows this and is ahead of the curve.

That why it was beyond stupid to take the position that if Phil talked Melo up, somehow it would fool some other GM to believe Melo isn't what he is.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest people in the room. They often prove to be the dumbest.

No, Phil couldn't talk up Melo to improve his trade value, but he certainly can talk him down to further decrease it. And when you put it out there that you want to trade Melo you further erode the lack of leverage you're already dealing with. It's like buying a car. If the dealer knows 100% you need to walk off the lot with a vehicle you're not getting anywhere near a decent deal.

What world do you live in where all other GM's don't get access to the same 82 games we just saw Melo play, the advanced metric stats and it's not a job they are getting paid multi millions to understand who and what Melo is more than you.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest in room. NY arrogance? We consistently prove we are the dumbest.

And what world do you live in where GMs know 100% of what goes on in every organization? Of course everybody has access to video and stats. But if Phil (through his mouthpiece Charlie Rosen) starts floating negative behind the scenes narratives about their player what do you think that does to his already compromised trade value? It sure as heck doesn't improve it.

If I know it, what makes you think the rest of the GM's around the league don't?

This is their livelihood to know this stuff and they have unlimited resources to get the job done.

You think it's a secret Melo is getting older, doesn't play defense and doesn't move the ball and is resistant to the idea of improving on these fundamental team concepts?

No one who gets a GM job is stupid enough to not see these things. Unless the Knicks & Dolan hire them.

Sinix wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Ira wrote:My problems with keeping Melo are first, he's not a great player anymore and will get worse. Second, he's not a great fit. On offense, he plays isolation basketball and slows the teams ball movement whenever the ball comes to him. On defense - well he doesn't play much defense.

Every gm knows this and is ahead of the curve.

That why it was beyond stupid to take the position that if Phil talked Melo up, somehow it would fool some other GM to believe Melo isn't what he is.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest people in the room. They often prove to be the dumbest.

No, Phil couldn't talk up Melo to improve his trade value, but he certainly can talk him down to further decrease it. And when you put it out there that you want to trade Melo you further erode the lack of leverage you're already dealing with. It's like buying a car. If the dealer knows 100% you need to walk off the lot with a vehicle you're not getting anywhere near a decent deal.

What world do you live in where all other GM's don't get access to the same 82 games we just saw Melo play, the advanced metric stats and it's not a job they are getting paid multi millions to understand who and what Melo is more than you.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest in room. NY arrogance? We consistently prove we are the dumbest.

And what world do you live in where GMs know 100% of what goes on in every organization? Of course everybody has access to video and stats. But if Phil (through his mouthpiece Charlie Rosen) starts floating negative behind the scenes narratives about their player what do you think that does to his already compromised trade value? It sure as heck doesn't improve it.

If I know it, what makes you think the rest of the GM's around the league don't?

This is their livelihood to know this stuff and they have unlimited resources to get the job done.

You think it's a secret Melo is getting older, doesn't play defense and doesn't move the ball and is resistant to the idea of improving on these fundamental team concepts?

No one who gets a GM job is stupid enough to not see these things. Unless the Knicks & Dolan hire them.

Then the Rockets (and possibly Cavs) interest is totally made up by the media and there is no trade to be made anyway.

What is your point then? The Knicks were stupid not to make the trade you argue no team wants to make?

Huh?

It's definitely a possibility the cavs and rockets interest is greatly embellished.

No one is giving us anything good for melo. Look at the returns on Butler and George. Melo is a fraction of the player they are in comparison.

Knicks need to stop looking for the fleece and get rid of melo anyway they can, now, before the season starts.

Other teams know we need to get rid of him for good reason and they aren't wrong.

You can't get your obsessed head out of melo's ass long enough to make sense.

Melo has a player option for next year, that's it. I won't bring up that being a question mark whether he'll exercise because I can write your response myself.

But if the "returns" extend into 2019-2020 cap space, as Anderson or Leonard would (and Harkless, for that matter) then it'd make more sense just to hold onto him and negotiate a buy-out then move him for a ****ty return, and there is no pressing timetable on buyout or release.

Someone who advocates clearing the air of him as cleanly as possible would logically advocate that over a poor trade. But you're so fixated on what you perceive as denigrating Melo and picking fights with anyone that isn't a preoccupied with him as you are you're advocating doing something stupid out of spite.

But go ahead, you're not the move-on type. Explain how paying Anderson $21m in 2019-20 is better than releasing Melo?

Knixkik wrote:Frank Isola is so full of it. He claims to have sources within one of the teams in the deal, but i guarantee he has no idea who the other 2 teams in the deal are, just like everyone else.

One day people are going to figure out him and a few others really don't know more than your average forum poster on here. A lot of them take rumors from places like here and realgm then create stories out them they get paid for.

Isola tried to have a relationship with an inside like Phil but Phil said nope so Isola wrote hit pieces on him non stop. This is how these guys work.

Sinix wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Sinix wrote:

Ira wrote:My problems with keeping Melo are first, he's not a great player anymore and will get worse. Second, he's not a great fit. On offense, he plays isolation basketball and slows the teams ball movement whenever the ball comes to him. On defense - well he doesn't play much defense.

Every gm knows this and is ahead of the curve.

That why it was beyond stupid to take the position that if Phil talked Melo up, somehow it would fool some other GM to believe Melo isn't what he is.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest people in the room. They often prove to be the dumbest.

No, Phil couldn't talk up Melo to improve his trade value, but he certainly can talk him down to further decrease it. And when you put it out there that you want to trade Melo you further erode the lack of leverage you're already dealing with. It's like buying a car. If the dealer knows 100% you need to walk off the lot with a vehicle you're not getting anywhere near a decent deal.

What world do you live in where all other GM's don't get access to the same 82 games we just saw Melo play, the advanced metric stats and it's not a job they are getting paid multi millions to understand who and what Melo is more than you.

Knicks fans think they are the smartest in room. NY arrogance? We consistently prove we are the dumbest.

And what world do you live in where GMs know 100% of what goes on in every organization? Of course everybody has access to video and stats. But if Phil (through his mouthpiece Charlie Rosen) starts floating negative behind the scenes narratives about their player what do you think that does to his already compromised trade value? It sure as heck doesn't improve it.

If I know it, what makes you think the rest of the GM's around the league don't?

This is their livelihood to know this stuff and they have unlimited resources to get the job done.

You think it's a secret Melo is getting older, doesn't play defense and doesn't move the ball and is resistant to the idea of improving on these fundamental team concepts?

No one who gets a GM job is stupid enough to not see these things. Unless the Knicks & Dolan hire them.

Then the Rockets (and possibly Cavs) interest is totally made up by the media and there is no trade to be made anyway.

What is your point then? The Knicks were stupid not to make the trade you argue no team wants to make?

Huh?

It's definitely a possibility the cavs and rockets interest is greatly embellished.

No one is giving us anything good for melo. Look at the returns on Butler and George. Melo is a fraction of the player they are in comparison.

Knicks need to stop looking for the fleece and get rid of melo anyway they can, now, before the season starts.

Other teams know we need to get rid of him for good reason and they aren't wrong.

You can't get your obsessed head out of melo's ass long enough to make sense.

Melo has a player option for next year, that's it. I won't bring up that being a question mark whether he'll exercise because I can write your response myself.

But if the "returns" extend into 2019-2020 cap space, as Anderson or Leonard would (and Harkless, for that matter) then it'd make more sense just to hold onto him and negotiate a buy-out then move him for a ****ty return, and there is no pressing timetable on buyout or release.

Someone who advocates clearing the air of him as cleanly as possible would logically advocate that over a poor trade. But you're so fixated on what you perceive as denigrating Melo and picking fights with anyone that isn't a preoccupied with him as you are you're advocating doing something stupid out of spite.

But go ahead, you're not the move-on type. Explain how paying Anderson $21m in 2019-20 is better than releasing Melo?

I'm crazy about the Knicks, not Melo. The day Melo is traded, you will only hear about me talking about him in passing.

Knicks need to move on in any which way possible otherwise there's nothing really else to talk about. We're stuck with a horrible team with a horrible direction and nothing that really points to it getting better.

There's no rule that says every Knick fan needs to look at the situation in the delusionally brightest way possible. The Knicks current and future fortunes look incredibly grim and that's what I want to talk about.

No. You're so wound up you don't see the forest for the trees.

This latest fit is about the Knicks pulling our or pausing a potential trade.

Someone pro-Knicks calm and rational and of the position Melo is best served off the Knicks (to which I agree) should easily recognize the best options are:

1.) Decent trade with some value back and not too much extended cap commitment.
2.) Buying out Melo for 1 year where he forgoes the option year (or offers some worthwhile discount)
3.) Keeping Melo for a year and putting the onus on him to opt out next (can release or buy out if so)
4.) buying melo out for the full 2 years now.
5.) making a lateral trade that eats up significant 2019-2010 cap space.

But you're so blind by rage you've been arguing 5 is the option they should take asap and won't acknowledge options 2-4 do give the Knicks some measure of leverage. You can't do that because in your mind not doing 5 suggests he has some value that you can't acknowledge because you rhetorically boxed yourself into a corner

That isn't Knick love talking, that's Melo obsession.