joec32033 wrote:I posted this in the other thread but it is more apt here....

KCP 13.8 pts. 2.5 ast. 3.5 rbs. Better defender. 6-5, 205, 24 yrs old.

THJR 14.5 pts. 2.3 ast. 2.8 rbs. Better offensively. 6-6, 205, 25 yrs old.

Where is the outcry of what a horrible signing this is by the Lakers? Where is the "This guy ain't worth the money" national twitter outcry? I know it's for a year. So what? So know if he blows up he can just walk. Oh wait, does the whole damned if you do, damned if you don't principle only apply to the Knicks?

lol I was just going to post comparing KVC to THJ and you beat me to it.

They are the same age (THJ just turned 25). If you look at their statistics last year. KVC was only a better 3 point shooter (although it was close) and THJ was a much better shooter from the field: KVC 39% to THJ's 46%. If you factor in how THJ produced when he was getting starter minutes the last 35 games, he blew KCP's stats out the water: 18 ppg, 48% FG and 38% from 3.

Now the main difference is that KVC is known as a superior defender, and although THJ's defense has improved to passable, KVC's is far superior. While KVC is primarily a 3 and D player, THJ has the potential to be more of a scorer and can create his own shot.

Now the fact the KVC became unrestricted late in free agency plays a factor here b/c the market dried up. Lakers getting him on a 1 yr deal was a steal b/c they preserve their cap space if he doesn't work out.

We, on the other hand, are locked into THJ for 4 years with a player option and a trade kicker to lure him from ATL as restricted, which is the killer. Both teams are rebuilding, similar players but Lakers used their cap space more smart. However, THJ has a higher ceiling offensively and is growing. We'll see how it pans out.

joec32033 wrote:I posted this in the other thread but it is more apt here....

KCP 13.8 pts. 2.5 ast. 3.5 rbs. Better defender. 6-5, 205, 24 yrs old.

THJR 14.5 pts. 2.3 ast. 2.8 rbs. Better offensively. 6-6, 205, 25 yrs old.

Where is the outcry of what a horrible signing this is by the Lakers? Where is the "This guy ain't worth the money" national twitter outcry? I know it's for a year. So what? So know if he blows up he can just walk. Oh wait, does the whole damned if you do, damned if you don't principle only apply to the Knicks?

mlby1215 wrote:The difference is that it is only 1 year. If he doesn't work, no harm to the future of Lakers.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-team-salary/

The second problem is that at 2019, KP will be RFA and we still have Lee, Noah and THjr on the book. It would be wise actually if we just buyout melo, let his contract expired, traded him for the same length or short contracts. The reason? We will need the cap badly at that time to convince KP that his future is here. If we are capped and is still doing bad, we will have very few options to stop him jumping boat. He would lose money if he just goes away, but he would not lose a penny if he forces Knicks doing S&T.

Moreover, Mills will probably take back a longer contract from Melo. He wants productive players to make the team better. If he didn't care about cap before (THjr and Baker) then why would he want to trade Melo for cap now?

This is why the signing of THjr is bad. It is not about him, it is about the management. The time is not right.

Would Mills trade Lee for cap space? of course not. It would be Lee or someone who took the same space.

Would Mills trade Noah for cap space? He probably wants but it is not realistic.

Would Mills trade Melo for cap space? I said it is not how he has been doing. He doesn't trade cap space for picks like Sean Marks. He wants to get better.

Everything I said is not about how Mills should do things. I just said he doesn't plan on leaving any caps for 2019-2020, and this could be backfired because we cannot say something like "Listen, KP. We have caps and we can sign someone to help. Just stay with us. "

Currently, there are 2 ways we have space in 2019. One is to buyout Melo, let him expire or trade him for someone with shorter contracts.

The second one is we do not overspend faster than the speed the cap goes up. It is pretty hard, and probably it is not very much at the end. (The cap jump was one time thing and it has already jumped. )

I feel like I just retyped everything I said.

CrushAlot wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:The difference is that it is only 1 year. If he doesn't work, no harm to the future of Lakers.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/new-york-knicks-team-salary/

The second problem is that at 2019, KP will be RFA and we still have Lee, Noah and THjr on the book. It would be wise actually if we just buyout melo, let his contract expired, traded him for the same length or short contracts. The reason? We will need the cap badly at that time to convince KP that his future is here. If we are capped and is still doing bad, we will have very few options to stop him jumping boat. He would lose money if he just goes away, but he would not lose a penny if he forces Knicks doing S&T.

Moreover, Mills will probably take back a longer contract from Melo. He wants productive players to make the team better. If he didn't care about cap before (THjr and Baker) then why would he want to trade Melo for cap now?

This is why the signing of THjr is bad. It is not about him, it is about the management. The time is not right.

If KCP does work he gets a huge raise or leaves for nothing.
When is the time right to sign a young guy that you see as part of your future and you project to e a good fit on your team? Tim isn't a broke down quirky guy that connected with Mills and got a deal that crushes the cap. He isn't an older role player that would fit on a contending team that was given an overpay in a rebuild situation. In 2019 the only guy that should be on the books of the three that you mentioned is Tim. Noah was a bad signing by Phil and Phil loves Noah. Lee doesn't fit with the direction of the team and is an older vet. Management sees Tim as a fit and they went out and got him.

joec32033 wrote:I posted this in the other thread but it is more apt here....

KCP 13.8 pts. 2.5 ast. 3.5 rbs. Better defender. 6-5, 205, 24 yrs old.

THJR 14.5 pts. 2.3 ast. 2.8 rbs. Better offensively. 6-6, 205, 25 yrs old.

Where is the outcry of what a horrible signing this is by the Lakers? Where is the "This guy ain't worth the money" national twitter outcry? I know it's for a year. So what? So know if he blows up he can just walk. Oh wait, does the whole damned if you do, damned if you don't principle only apply to the Knicks?

You can't compare just the aspects that validate your argument and leave out the rest. If the Lakers already had a starting caliber SG on the books and had drafted a capable backup and then given KCP a 4 year deal with TRADE KICKER, while completely ignoring a position of need (Starting PG in our case) and using up all their available salary cap in the process, THEN you can compare the two moves and ask where is the outcry.

Jmpasq wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I posted this in the other thread but it is more apt here....

KCP 13.8 pts. 2.5 ast. 3.5 rbs. Better defender. 6-5, 205, 24 yrs old.

THJR 14.5 pts. 2.3 ast. 2.8 rbs. Better offensively. 6-6, 205, 25 yrs old.

Where is the outcry of what a horrible signing this is by the Lakers? Where is the "This guy ain't worth the money" national twitter outcry? I know it's for a year. So what? So know if he blows up he can just walk. Oh wait, does the whole damned if you do, damned if you don't principle only apply to the Knicks?

You really dont see the difference between signing a 1 year deal to reach the floor or the cap crippling 4 year deal. Even 2 years for Hardaway I could of dealt with, 4 years is frickin stupid, especially when you are already saddled with Noah. We will lose KP for nothing because this team is going to be bad but not bad enough to get anyone good, and we will capped out. This is a train wreck I've seen it over and over the last 15 years. Keep cheering this nightmare on, some of you are the exact reason we still suck because your willing to swallow this crap. We can still mitigate the damage but we need to trade Lee for an expiring deal or for a 2nd rounder and get rid of Lance Thomas. That equals the horrendous amount of the Hardaway deal

Wow. The sky is really falling for you isn't it? Lose KP for nothing? How does Hardaway impact that? Hardaway could just as easily become Kerry Kittles type SG that is worth the money. Is Hardaway the most prudent signing, no. But if Mills believes that Hardaway may improve to the level to justify his contract-which in the current NBA, he doesn't have to improve much to be worth his 18 mil per- I am willing to at least see how it goes. One thing I've seen, every contract is moveable in the right circumstance.