meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

Unless I am reading this wrong, this will happen in both scenarios. It's a non factor in valuating the trade. And I should have added that after trading for Knight we can actually cut him as well. Now you are talking 56MM dead cap hold for two years or $44MM for three.

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

It is my understanding that Philly being way under the cap can take on Anderson's contract and not have to match salaries. Though I'm certainly not sure, Anderson could be more attractive and serviceable than Okafor and Philly would have plenty of cap space to absorb his contract. Especially with Redick only being on a one year deal.

Philly is transitioning from purely tanking/rebuilding/collecting assets to competing, however.

They don't seem to getting anything out of this, besides paying $40m to RA in years 2 & 3 when Okafor will already be gone by then if they just renounce him.

They don't appear to be getting anything at all for that $40m.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

Unless I am reading this wrong, this will happen in both scenarios.

Of course, but it affects the effective cap space created to spend elsewhere. It is not $14m they Knicks can re-spend, as you implied with "for another FA signing".

And I should have added that after trading for Knight we can actually cut him as well. Now you are talking 56MM dead cap hold for two years or $44MM for three.

The distribution is key. Kuz, O'Quinn, Baker and Thomas (only guaranteed $1m that year) are expired. Lee (if still around) and Noah are in their final years and are more spinable. And it's Porzingis's RFA year. May be a last opportunity to have some spendable cap space of note.

And THAT's assuming Capela isn't retained.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

Unless I am reading this wrong, this will happen in both scenarios. It's a non factor in valuating the trade. And I should have added that after trading for Knight we can actually cut him as well. Now you are talking 56MM dead cap hold for two years or $44MM for three.

We already missed out on the top FAs this year, though. So that means dead weight in salary for one more off-season (and no more if Melo opts out) vs. two more off-seasons. I'd rather worst case scenario just get through that one more off-season. Melo would likely either opt out or accept a buyout. The years are more important to me than saving $12 mil (which only gets your another Courtney Lee type player). Worst case scenario, with Melo it's $28 mil on the books next off-season vs. $30 mil for 2 more off-seasons with Knight. Honestly, I wish we could just front-load all our bad contracts and get them off the books after next off-season.

And you are basing this in what? How many data points do we have that shows us Melo would walk away from money?

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

Unless I am reading this wrong, this will happen in both scenarios. It's a non factor in valuating the trade. And I should have added that after trading for Knight we can actually cut him as well. Now you are talking 56MM dead cap hold for two years or $44MM for three.

We already missed out on the top FAs this year, though. So that means dead weight in salary for one more off-season (and no more if Melo opts out) vs. two more off-seasons. I'd rather worst case scenario just get through that one more off-season. Melo would likely either opt out or accept a buyout. The years are more important to me than saving $12 mil (which only gets your another Courtney Lee type player). Worst case scenario, with Melo it's $28 mil on the books next off-season vs. $30 mil for 2 more off-seasons with Knight. Honestly, I wish we could just front-load all our bad contracts and get them off the books after next off-season.

And you are basing this in what? How many data points do we have that shows us Melo would walk away from money?

That was a secondary point. I believe I was clear why I'd prefer front-loaded bad deals even if Melo doesn't walk. Again, I'd rather in the worst case just have to get through one more off-season and then have much more cap space.

Ok then we are completely aligned

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

Welpee wrote:Would you do this deal:

Knicks
Capela
Knight
Tim Quarterman (to make the numbers work)
Houston 1st round pick

Philly
Ryan Anderson

Houston
Melo
O'Quinn

Phoenix
Okafor
Isaiah Taylor(to make the numbers work)

Justification

Knicks get rid of Melo, get younger and acquire a PG (I know a lot of people don't like Knight)

That's why it's a no.

Well, if you think we're going to get Russell Westbrook back in a trade people will be sadly disappointed. In order to unload Melo you get a player most people like (Capela) and 1st round pick most people want and we have to absorb a young pg who hasn't been great recently but played well earlier in his career. I think we would need to consider it. My question is would Philly bite?

Knight has mostly been awful.

A Melo buyout would be better.

Explain how a buyout (getting nothing and still taking up cap space) is a better option?

Because Knight is awful, and would be paid $15.6m in 2019-2020.

Not mentioning being paid $28.2m to be awful in the two seasons before that.

Capela is a FA next year and will likely become expensive despite his limited skill set and may only be good enough to be a back-up.

a Rockets pick is likely going to be a late 1st.

That doesn't make up for Knight being awful for 3 seasons and $44m dollars.

Knight is awful, ok. He will get 44MM over three seasons. You preference is 56 MM over two season of absolute dead weight - and that is better why?

I already answered this question. Because $56m of nothing over two rebuilding seasons (anyway0 is better than $44m of bad basketball (while you're hoping young players get better and $15.6m stretches into a 3rd season). I'm not saying Brandon Knight is too expensive for how good he is. I'm saying Brandon Knight is bad.

There's a difference.

IDK how much Capela makes but if he leaves next year then Knight's remaining cap hold would free up 14 MM in the second year for another FA signing - did you figure that in?

Yes.

Did you calculate the $4.6m the Knicks will pay out in raises to contracted players and the no less than $3.5 to $8m they figure to likely as a rookie scale cap hold for picking in the top 10 next year?

I'm not going to even mention the likelihood of Philly taking Anderson for 3 years and $60m and only trading away Okafor's 1 year/$4.5m and the KNicks only having to take back Knight and Capela.

Unless I am reading this wrong, this will happen in both scenarios.

Of course, but it affects the effective cap space created to spend elsewhere. It is not $14m they Knicks can re-spend, as you implied with "for another FA signing".

And I should have added that after trading for Knight we can actually cut him as well. Now you are talking 56MM dead cap hold for two years or $44MM for three.

The distribution is key. Kuz, O'Quinn, Baker and Thomas (only guaranteed $1m that year) are expired. Lee (if still around) and Noah are in their final years and are more spinable. And it's Porzingis's RFA year. May be a last opportunity to have some spendable cap space of note.

And THAT's assuming Capela isn't retained.

Right if you are basing this on the overall timing of current contracts -I see your point. Too much of that however is variable and factoring in lesser contracts like Kuz KOQ etc may be getting too granular. I mean after we do this deal that part of the landscape can be completely changed before the trade deadline. If however we have a master plan and are actually sticking to it, your position would make more sense.

And you can't totally dismiss the idea Melo's second year is an option year. I am in no way saying Melo will walk away from it, but at that stage a more equitable buyout of that final year would be on the table and make more sense.

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BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

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I think it's time just to completely axe this trade. I don't think it's fair to fans. They've worked through it and it's not close. Melo doesn't want more than 2 teams than we should integrate a role for him as sixth man. I think it's in the Knicks best interests to start 5 Gus not named Mdlo -- but retain his value ( and possible trades scenarios at the deadline) by giving him a 25 minute role as sixth man . If it was good enuff for Kevin Mchale and many ginobli-- it's good enough for melo. But this conversation has to end-- too much -- who really cares