meloshouldgo wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I'm starting to lose respect for Melo. When we traded for him to come here, we gave up so many assets to acquire him because he didn't want to risk going into free agency that summer and not get a max contract with the CBA. Now that he's leaving, he is dictating which team he wants to go with (granted it's his right b/c of dumb no trade clause) but it ensures the team gets little to no value back in return so he's happy to go play play for a contender. He's setting the franchise back coming and going.

Knicks and Melo haters are getting exactly what they deserve. Melo stayed quite all year. Knowimg full well who was in control. Now your complaining about the realization. Maybe you now see what some of us saw as a problem with Phil's handling of Melo. But thats because he thought he could waste another 60m of Dolan s money by buying him out. Yet everyone thought it was defending Melo and not just complaining about Phil devaluing yet another one of our assets. For the sake of his precious. At least we got rid of him before he completed doing the same with KP.

At this stage in the game, Melo's relative value around the league is moot if Melo is trying to force his way to Houston or Cleveland via his NTC.

Houston isn't holding back value, they don't have any value to give. It's Anderson or Gordon/Ariza. Period. I doubt Paul and Harden were swayed by Jackson.

Same in Cleveland, it's either Shump/Frye/Jefferson or Love, with again, Lebron James being the biggest influence.

I'm not defending Jackson but he could have talked him up for those 6 months and the math would be the same.

Melo's perceived value isn't getting some team to take Anderson off Houston's hands.

My point is we gave up a boatload to get him here. He was going to be a free agent that summer and we could have gotten him without giving up assets but he was afraid of not getting back his full money because of the restructuring of the CBA.

Now that he's leaving, he only wants to be traded to two contending teams, which does not help his value. Yes...Phil gave him a not trade, which was stupid, and yes, Phil extended his contract, which was dumb; and yes, Phil devalued him in the press, but Melo is not helping matters on his way out. Giving up a lot to get him; we had one good season, and now getting nothing in sending him out.

Yeah now we are being told Melo doesn't care about helping the Knicks anymore because he is pissed with Phil/Jeff/Dolan. But when he was pissed with George Karl/Denver front office it didn't stop him from helping them TRADERAPE three Knicks.

It was in his interest to do so.

People will spin whatever bull**** they can to make it sound like reasonable arguments.

And people will be willfully ignorant because they have a grudge.

meloshouldgo wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I'm starting to lose respect for Melo. When we traded for him to come here, we gave up so many assets to acquire him because he didn't want to risk going into free agency that summer and not get a max contract with the CBA. Now that he's leaving, he is dictating which team he wants to go with (granted it's his right b/c of dumb no trade clause) but it ensures the team gets little to no value back in return so he's happy to go play play for a contender. He's setting the franchise back coming and going.

Knicks and Melo haters are getting exactly what they deserve. Melo stayed quite all year. Knowimg full well who was in control. Now your complaining about the realization. Maybe you now see what some of us saw as a problem with Phil's handling of Melo. But thats because he thought he could waste another 60m of Dolan s money by buying him out. Yet everyone thought it was defending Melo and not just complaining about Phil devaluing yet another one of our assets. For the sake of his precious. At least we got rid of him before he completed doing the same with KP.

At this stage in the game, Melo's relative value around the league is moot if Melo is trying to force his way to Houston or Cleveland via his NTC.

Houston isn't holding back value, they don't have any value to give. It's Anderson or Gordon/Ariza. Period. I doubt Paul and Harden were swayed by Jackson.

Same in Cleveland, it's either Shump/Frye/Jefferson or Love, with again, Lebron James being the biggest influence.

I'm not defending Jackson but he could have talked him up for those 6 months and the math would be the same.

Melo's perceived value isn't getting some team to take Anderson off Houston's hands.

My point is we gave up a boatload to get him here. He was going to be a free agent that summer and we could have gotten him without giving up assets but he was afraid of not getting back his full money because of the restructuring of the CBA.

Now that he's leaving, he only wants to be traded to two contending teams, which does not help his value. Yes...Phil gave him a not trade, which was stupid, and yes, Phil extended his contract, which was dumb; and yes, Phil devalued him in the press, but Melo is not helping matters on his way out. Giving up a lot to get him; we had one good season, and now getting nothing in sending him out.

Yeah now we are being told Melo doesn't care about helping the Knicks anymore because he is pissed with Phil/Jeff/Dolan. But when he was pissed with George Karl/Denver front office it didn't stop him from helping them TRADERAPE three Knicks.

People will spin whatever bull**** they can to make it sound like reasonable arguments.

Or when he demanded Lin be thrown out to Houston for 50 times his worth. See post above reminding geniuses like you that Melo was not in the Knicks front office pulling the strings. The same front office that was smart enough to reject your boy Lin's ridiculous contract, should have been smart enough to realize they could have Melo after the season. But we are the Knicks. Not Denver. Not Houston. You notice Houston is not exactly gutting their team after hearing he only wants to go to them? Sound familiar? Same thing Melo did when being negotiated for by Knicks. But you keep going champ. Here is solid proof:

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/01/08/jeremy-lins-hair-raising-transformation-see-the-insanity/

TLover wrote:Rockets being sold could possibly garner us more assets as a one last hurrah for the current owner. Obviously the new owner will not like having future 1st round picks traded away, but it still won't devalue the franchise.

I'm all for getting as many 1st round picks from the rockets as possible and flip Ryan Anderson. Heck if it gets us another first rounder from the rockets we'll keep Anderson then look to move him later at the trade deadline.

Collecting future 1st round picks (while sustaining your young core)is a great way to build a franchise (as long as the decision makers make the right decisions regarding those assets) hence why we need a guy like Scott Perry to make it all come together.

Our 1 & 2 scorers without Melo is KP & Hardaway. Mills knew he had to replace Melo's scoring and Timmy could do that with a clutch element to his game. Also let's not forget the only player Mills ever drafted himself when he was acting gm in 2013 was Tim Hardaway Jr.

Houston's 2020 and 2022 draft picks (likely with some protection) in exchange for paying Anderson (or someone(s) else) in 2019-2020 just doesn't do it for me like it does some people.

HofstraBBall wrote:So your claiming the way he was treated has had no impact on the current situation and I am claiming Phil's handling hurt any possibility of him working with us in trading him. Fair enough. We disagree.

Melo's career has shown a pattern of self-interest, and I don't mean that pejoratively.

He wanted his contract resolved before the strike, he wanted a NTC and a trade kicker to GIVE him control, and now we seem put off that he wants to exercise those things for the very reason he asked for them.

Wanting to control where you live and work and the goals of your work is a completely understandable.

He can try to go where he has a more than decent chance of playing in the Finals and where two of this best friends play, or he can go to places where his Finals odds are less and none of his best friends play.

WHY would he, or anyone, choose the latter before the door was closed on the former?

I wouldn't.

As a parting gift. To be a good Knick on his way out the door?

C'mon.

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:So your claiming the way he was treated has had no impact on the current situation and I am claiming Phil's handling hurt any possibility of him working with us in trading him. Fair enough. We disagree.

Melo's career has shown a pattern of self-interest, and I don't mean that pejoratively.

He wanted his contract resolved before the strike, he wanted a NTC and a trade kicker to GIVE him control, and now we seem put off that he wants to exercise those things for the very reason he asked for them.

Wanting to control where you live and work and the goals of your work is a completely understandable.

He can try to go where he has a more than decent chance of playing in the Finals and where two of this best friends play, or he can go to places where his Finals odds are less and none of his best friends play.

WHY would he, or anyone, choose the latter before the door was closed on the former?

I wouldn't.

As a parting gift. To be a good Knick on his way out the door?

C'mon.

Agree, it is not an insult to say someones carreer is driven by self interest. Last i checked not too many of us have dedicated our services to a charitable organazation. Specially athletes.

Agree he was smart to include a NTC. And with the reasons to have one.

Disagreeing that the way he was treated erased any possibility of a more favorable negotiation. No matter how you try to phrase it, claiming ones prediction of what could have been, as more probable than others, is still just a guess. IMO, There could be several options/outcomes in any negotiation. Unless either side is combative or feels disrespected.

GustavBahler wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/report-trail-blazers-struggling-team-170846882.html

Report: Trail Blazers struggling to find team to take Meyers Leonard in Carmelo Anthony trade

Dan Feldman
NBC Sports•Jul 18, 2017, 10:24 AM

Right now, the Knicks are holding up a Carmelo Anthony trade.

But even if New York’s new regime relents on dealing Anthony to the Rockets, there are still complications.

Houston would probably have to send out Ryan Anderson, whom nobody wants at his salary. Sure, some teams might take Anderson – with a sweetener or to unload their own bad contracts. Like the Trail Blazers, who have Meyers Leonard.

Chris Mannix of Yahoo Sports:

With Anthony yet to indicate he would waive his no-trade clause to play in Portland, the Blazers’ early involvement has largely been as a third-team facilitator for New York and Houston, with the teams’ inability to find a fourth team to absorb the contract of Meyers Leonard stalling at least one version of the deal, three sources with knowledge of the talks told The Vertical.
Leonard is owed $31,786,516 over the next three years. His big-man skills have disintegrated despite being 7-foot-1, and his outside shooting isn’t threatening enough to compensate. He’s just 25, so there’s time for him to rebound (literally and figuratively). But at that price, it’s a bad bet.

The Trail Blazers have plenty of lousy contracts and face the luxury tax, so presumably, they’d unload a couple for the overpaid Anderson – who can still help on the court with his floor spacing – in this trade.

The Knicks and Rockets can keep roping in more teams. But at the end of the day, someone has to end up with the worst contract in the trade, whether that’s Anderson or Leonard. Good luck finding a taker.

This sums it up. Fans things adding 3rd and 4th teams marginalize the bad contracts. They don't.

Whether it's Anderson to Portland or Melo to Portland, one or two bad contracts have to wind up somewhere.

Melo's $26m is just very, very hard to trade.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:So your claiming the way he was treated has had no impact on the current situation and I am claiming Phil's handling hurt any possibility of him working with us in trading him. Fair enough. We disagree.

Melo's career has shown a pattern of self-interest, and I don't mean that pejoratively.

He wanted his contract resolved before the strike, he wanted a NTC and a trade kicker to GIVE him control, and now we seem put off that he wants to exercise those things for the very reason he asked for them.

Wanting to control where you live and work and the goals of your work is a completely understandable.

He can try to go where he has a more than decent chance of playing in the Finals and where two of this best friends play, or he can go to places where his Finals odds are less and none of his best friends play.

WHY would he, or anyone, choose the latter before the door was closed on the former?

I wouldn't.

As a parting gift. To be a good Knick on his way out the door?

C'mon.

Agree, it is not an insult to say someones carreer is driven by self interest. Last i checked not too many of us have dedicated our services to a charitable organazations. Specially athletes.

Agree he was smart to include a NTC. And with the reasons to have one.

Disagreeing that the way he was treated erased any Possibility of a more favorable negotiation. No matter how you try to phrase it, claiming ones prediction of what could have been as more probable than others, is still just a guess. IMO, There could be several options/outcomes in any negotiation. Unless either side is combative or feels disrespected.

Why in July would Carmelo Anthony allow himself to be traded anywhere other than exactly where he wants to be traded to?

Knickoftime wrote:

TLover wrote:Rockets being sold could possibly garner us more assets as a one last hurrah for the current owner. Obviously the new owner will not like having future 1st round picks traded away, but it still won't devalue the franchise.

I'm all for getting as many 1st round picks from the rockets as possible and flip Ryan Anderson. Heck if it gets us another first rounder from the rockets we'll keep Anderson then look to move him later at the trade deadline.

Collecting future 1st round picks (while sustaining your young core)is a great way to build a franchise (as long as the decision makers make the right decisions regarding those assets) hence why we need a guy like Scott Perry to make it all come together.

Our 1 & 2 scorers without Melo is KP & Hardaway. Mills knew he had to replace Melo's scoring and Timmy could do that with a clutch element to his game. Also let's not forget the only player Mills ever drafted himself when he was acting gm in 2013 was Tim Hardaway Jr.

Houston's 2020 and 2022 draft picks (likely with some protection) in exchange for paying Anderson (or someone(s) else) in 2019-2020 just doesn't do it for me like it does some people.

If the 2022 is unprotected and the nearer one is top 3 protected, I will be ok with it. I am not tied into Melo's window or KP's window or anyone else's window. We should look to establish a continuous flow of first round picks, like Hinkie did. That will eventually payoff to where we have enough solid talent at the same time.

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:From Berman...

http://nypost.com/2017/07/18/carmelo-doesnt-want-to-talk-to-knicks-just-be-traded/

Carmelo doesn’t want to talk to Knicks, just be traded

One day after the Knicks new management team stated Carmelo Anthony could potentially return, it appears Anthony still has no desire to talk with Knicks president Steve Mills and new general manager Scott Perry about that possibility.
According to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski during a SportsCenter appearance Tuesday morning, Anthony “has made it clear to [the Knicks]: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated back into this New York roster.”

The Knicks are in complete rebuild mode, but management does not know if it can make a sensible deal to send Anthony to the Rockets. Sources told The Post Anthony’s camp is pushing hard for a Rockets’ trade.

A source also told The Post the Rockets are undeterred by the franchise being put up for sale Monday and will continue their pursuit of uniting Anthony with his buddies Chris Paul and James Harden. Anthony has $56 million left on his pact, but with an opt out after the season.

Mills and Perry want to meet with Anthony, who has a no-trade clause, to gauge his temperature and see if he’d be willing to expand his wish list beyond the Rockets and Cavaliers. Suggestions the Knicks are trying to convince Anthony to remain a Knick are exaggerated as they try to focus on, as Mills said Monday, “youth, athleticism and defense.’’

There was no indication if Anthony is willing to expand his list, meaning this latest Melodrama could drag on. The Blazers and Suns are said to have some interest in getting involved in a bid for Anthony.

It was also reported the Rockets are prepared that “these negotiations with the Knicks could run through August, September, into possibly the start of training camp as New York tries to rebuild Melo’s value.”
Despite his no-trade clause, Anthony doesn’t have much leverage. If he holds out of training camp, it would cost him only money. The Knicks no longer are in win-now mode, so they’d be prepared to play Tim Hardaway Jr. at shooting guard and Courtney Lee at Anthony’s small-forward spot.

Rebuilding his value is irrelevant if its just Houston.

Telling the Knicks he only wants to go to one team, Melo shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get traded. Was reading about how Mills was around (in some capacity) when Ewing demanded a trade, and the results. I doubt he wants to go there again, hope not.

Bonn1997 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:From Berman...

http://nypost.com/2017/07/18/carmelo-doesnt-want-to-talk-to-knicks-just-be-traded/

Carmelo doesn’t want to talk to Knicks, just be traded

One day after the Knicks new management team stated Carmelo Anthony could potentially return, it appears Anthony still has no desire to talk with Knicks president Steve Mills and new general manager Scott Perry about that possibility.
According to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski during a SportsCenter appearance Tuesday morning, Anthony “has made it clear to [the Knicks]: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated back into this New York roster.”

The Knicks are in complete rebuild mode, but management does not know if it can make a sensible deal to send Anthony to the Rockets. Sources told The Post Anthony’s camp is pushing hard for a Rockets’ trade.

A source also told The Post the Rockets are undeterred by the franchise being put up for sale Monday and will continue their pursuit of uniting Anthony with his buddies Chris Paul and James Harden. Anthony has $56 million left on his pact, but with an opt out after the season.

Mills and Perry want to meet with Anthony, who has a no-trade clause, to gauge his temperature and see if he’d be willing to expand his wish list beyond the Rockets and Cavaliers. Suggestions the Knicks are trying to convince Anthony to remain a Knick are exaggerated as they try to focus on, as Mills said Monday, “youth, athleticism and defense.’’

There was no indication if Anthony is willing to expand his list, meaning this latest Melodrama could drag on. The Blazers and Suns are said to have some interest in getting involved in a bid for Anthony.

It was also reported the Rockets are prepared that “these negotiations with the Knicks could run through August, September, into possibly the start of training camp as New York tries to rebuild Melo’s value.”
Despite his no-trade clause, Anthony doesn’t have much leverage. If he holds out of training camp, it would cost him only money. The Knicks no longer are in win-now mode, so they’d be prepared to play Tim Hardaway Jr. at shooting guard and Courtney Lee at Anthony’s small-forward spot.

Rebuilding his value is irrelevant if its just Houston.

Telling the Knicks he only wants to go to one team, Melo shouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get traded. Was reading about how Mills was around (in some capacity) when Ewing demanded a trade, and the results. I doubt he wants to go there again, hope not.

Yeah seriously. Tell him he needs to do a buyout and leave $35 mil on the table if being in Houston is that important to him.

Yeah, we have no urgency at all. Why should we handicap ourselves with bad contracts to appease Melo? If him and the Rockets want each other so bad one of them is going to have to give us something.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:So your claiming the way he was treated has had no impact on the current situation and I am claiming Phil's handling hurt any possibility of him working with us in trading him. Fair enough. We disagree.

Melo's career has shown a pattern of self-interest, and I don't mean that pejoratively.

He wanted his contract resolved before the strike, he wanted a NTC and a trade kicker to GIVE him control, and now we seem put off that he wants to exercise those things for the very reason he asked for them.

Wanting to control where you live and work and the goals of your work is a completely understandable.

He can try to go where he has a more than decent chance of playing in the Finals and where two of this best friends play, or he can go to places where his Finals odds are less and none of his best friends play.

WHY would he, or anyone, choose the latter before the door was closed on the former?

I wouldn't.

As a parting gift. To be a good Knick on his way out the door?

C'mon.

Agree, it is not an insult to say someones carreer is driven by self interest. Last i checked not too many of us have dedicated our services to a charitable organazations. Specially athletes.

Agree he was smart to include a NTC. And with the reasons to have one.

Disagreeing that the way he was treated erased any Possibility of a more favorable negotiation. No matter how you try to phrase it, claiming ones prediction of what could have been as more probable than others, is still just a guess. IMO, There could be several options/outcomes in any negotiation. Unless either side is combative or feels disrespected.

Why in July would Carmelo Anthony allow himself to be traded anywhere other than exactly where he wants to be traded to?

If he had a better relationship with the front office, MAYBE. Right now? (as a result of how Phil/Mills treated him), Absolutely not. You do realize we are in agreement of the latter? (Except for the cause)

I genuinely don't understand why in July Melo would settle for anything less than exactly what he wants completely regardless of his relationship with the team.

Like I say, I'M not settling for a lesser alternative solely to be a nice guy. I doubt anyone here would.