To be competitive we need to be able to keep our scoring up like last year (105) and then improve defense with having more younger, active players. No point of getting better on defense and then not being able to even score 100. Right now in the league 105 is an average output. We're losing both Rose and Melo this summer. If we replace them with Baker and Harkless. Scoring wise. we're screwed.

Maybe a deal with Gordon and Harkless coming back.

Willy/O'Quinn/(Porzingis)
Porzingis/Thomas
Harkless/Lee
Hardaway/Gordon
Baker/Ntilikina/(Gordon)

Sometimes even go with a Gordon, Hardaway, Lee, Thomas, Porzingis lineup that will flat out be able to spread and shoot/score the ball.

What are Rondo's strengths? Defense, pass first point guard, runs PnR with intention to find open player. Very similar to what I think we think Baker can do, and Frank is being groomed to be the same type of player.

We need a guard that can get us some dribble penetration, some outside shooting, some scorng threat off PnR and passing. That's not Baker or Frank. Or Randle. That's the type of third ball handling guard I'd want on the roster.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The problem I see with this trade is a few major hurdles

1)NYK is on a mission not to get fleeced in any deal
2)melo doesn't want the rockets to gut the team of it's depth
3)No one wants Ryan Andersons contract
4)the knicks are not in any need of PF/C or the will be stuck with a very unbalance roster
5)The 3rd or 4th team, has to take Anderson and have legit sg/pg to give up

Good luck..when you have a guy like Mills, who's yet to ever make a solid trade

What on earth will you do if you trade Melo and end up with a better record next season?!

Lets get this clear for the umpteenth time, I do not care for melo all that much, I do not care weather he is here or in china, All I want is a winning team..period.

Im just not into making moves for the sake of getting better 4 yrs from now, because that never ever works. If im making a trades, its to get better now and in the future. We have a very consistent history of making very bad trades.

if im wrong, please give me a trade that we won in the last 2 decades

Traded 2 2nd round picks for Willy
Traded Pablo for 2 2nd rounders & Shved.
Traded Dan Gadzuric, Jeffries, 2 euro stashes and a 2nd round pick for Kurt Thomas and Raymond Felton.
Traded Andy Rautins, Turiaf & 2nd round pick for Tyson Chandler S&T
Traded Oak for Camby
Traded Starks for Sprewell.

Tyson got more heat than melo, for his limited offensive skills, and he certainly didn't fit MDA's style of play

willy is and ok player as a rookie just like landry fields was the steal of the draft, until his 2nd season.

I said the last 2 decades, which would eliminate oak, and starks

nyknickzingis wrote:

martin wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Rondo only does what Baker and Frank will be able to as well.
I don't get the Rondo love unless it's to be a mentor. He doesn't bring the skill we're most in need of right now.
I look at our roster, we have some good pieces and players to work with, but a guard that can shoot and create off the dribble, get going, is not something we really possess. I don't see Rondo as that player.

What are Rondo's strengths? Defense, pass first point guard, runs PnR with intention to find open player. Very similar to what I think we think Baker can do, and Frank is being groomed to be the same type of player.

We need a guard that can get us some dribble penetration, some outside shooting, some scorng threat off PnR and passing. That's not Baker or Frank. Or Randle. That's the type of third ball handling guard I'd want on the roster.

I think the biggest separation with Rondo and Frank/Baker is Rondo will get guys the ball exactly where they need them pretty much all the time. Baker/Frank just starting to learn how to do that.

I totally know that, my concern is that since Rondo is advanced at that, wouldn't it just mean less time for development of Frank/Ron? If we sign Rondo, Horny will go with him as he can trust his abilities much more.

I think we should allow Frank/Ron run the team next year, for better or worse. I like someone like Eric Gordon because he will play off them, or at times be able to take over the point duties in small burts. We don't have a guard that can flat out create and score the ball from the point position. Our best attacker off the dribble right now would be THj, who IMO is more of a shooter off the dribble than anything else.

We simply need more scoring threats if we are to lose both Melo and Rose this summer. I can't see a team where the best scoring threats are Kristaps, Willy and Hardaway as a team that can get you enough points to be competitive. I understand the tanking process, but if they are interested in having a decent scoring team, they need more firepower.

I see a possible Noah and Tyson Swap along with some 1st rounders for Bledsoe/contracts for Bledsoe, possibly in a 2nd/seperate deal
maybe a 1st rounder in addition to some/most of our picks coming from CA trade

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The problem I see with this trade is a few major hurdles

1)NYK is on a mission not to get fleeced in any deal
2)melo doesn't want the rockets to gut the team of it's depth
3)No one wants Ryan Andersons contract
4)the knicks are not in any need of PF/C or the will be stuck with a very unbalance roster
5)The 3rd or 4th team, has to take Anderson and have legit sg/pg to give up

Good luck..when you have a guy like Mills, who's yet to ever make a solid trade

What on earth will you do if you trade Melo and end up with a better record next season?!

Lets get this clear for the umpteenth time, I do not care for melo all that much, I do not care weather he is here or in china, All I want is a winning team..period.

Im just not into making moves for the sake of getting better 4 yrs from now, because that never ever works. If im making a trades, its to get better now and in the future. We have a very consistent history of making very bad trades.

if im wrong, please give me a trade that we won in the last 2 decades

Traded 2 2nd round picks for Willy
Traded Pablo for 2 2nd rounders & Shved.
Traded Dan Gadzuric, Jeffries, 2 euro stashes and a 2nd round pick for Kurt Thomas and Raymond Felton.
Traded Andy Rautins, Turiaf & 2nd round pick for Tyson Chandler S&T
Traded Oak for Camby
Traded Starks for Sprewell.

Tyson got more heat than melo, for his limited offensive skills, and he certainly didn't fit MDA's style of play

willy is and ok player as a rookie just like landry fields was the steal of the draft, until his 2nd season.

I said the last 2 decades, which would eliminate oak, and starks

Tyson was really a FA signing I was playing around by adding him. He was still better then what we gave up. And he was perfect for MDA's style. Rim protecting finisher who produces a 60+% TS rating, and rebounds the ball. Why do you think he worked so well with Lin & Tyson with Jr, Shump, Novak all stretching the floor. That is MDA's vision in a nutshell with lesser talent.

So far we got more out of Willy then what we gave up. That equals winning a trade.
Camby and Sprwell were 98 & 99 which fit in the 2 decades time line. The cut off date is 96

knickinthehead wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The same people that want melo gone, are almost the same people that wanted AMARE and JR gone, they thought they were the problem. So please explain why we got worse after there departure

Melo's problem is his age, declining health, and bad contract. I wanted stat gone for the same reason, JR for the unnecessary drama. Just because things didn't get better doesn't mean the call wasn't right at the time. You have to make the right subsequent decisions as well.

Having said that, Id rather Melo stay if it's a choice between staying and a bad deal for the Knicks.

how about the fact that JR won a ring with Cleveland. if he was so bad how did he help a team win a ring? couldn't JR have done the same for us if we had some really good players on the team with him?

Give us Lebron and we probably could have won a ring. Melo is not even on the same planet as Lebron. Lebron makes others better and can actually recruit other players.

Clean wrote:

knickinthehead wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The same people that want melo gone, are almost the same people that wanted AMARE and JR gone, they thought they were the problem. So please explain why we got worse after there departure

Melo's problem is his age, declining health, and bad contract. I wanted stat gone for the same reason, JR for the unnecessary drama. Just because things didn't get better doesn't mean the call wasn't right at the time. You have to make the right subsequent decisions as well.

Having said that, Id rather Melo stay if it's a choice between staying and a bad deal for the Knicks.

how about the fact that JR won a ring with Cleveland. if he was so bad how did he help a team win a ring? couldn't JR have done the same for us if we had some really good players on the team with him?

Give us Lebron and we probably could have won a ring. Melo is not even on the same planet as Lebron. Lebron makes others better and can actually recruit other players.

but what did we put around Carmelo? most teams have three really good players what if we had Carmelo, Lebron, and one other really good player? that is why we aren't favorites to win it all we don't have a big three. a good bench with depth also helps...

Steve Blake is a really good bench player and why couldn't we get Melo Trimble, I would like to point out right about now I am a huge University Of Maryland Hoops fan, GO TERPS!!!
my sister graduated from Maryland back in the early 2000's I have been rooting for there basketball and Football team since the late 90's, I was born in Staten Island Great Kills but when I was 6 and a half years old moved to Olney Maryland a Suburb of Washington DC lived in Maryland most of my life now I live in Punta Gorda Florida couldn't take the cold weather anymore!

nyknickzingis wrote:I have to say, part of me is still open to the idea of trading for Eric Gordon, because the team doesn't have enough firepower to compete. Lets say the best player we get is Harkless - the projectiing starting 5 is Hernangomez/Porzingis/Harkless/Hardaway/Baker. That lineup will struggle to score over the long run of the regular season. Getting an Eric Gordon, and having CLee as well, both off the bench, all of a sudden you have serious perimeter scoring now with being able to put out Gordon, Clee, Hardaway all at once with KP. 4 shot makers.

To be competitive we need to be able to keep our scoring up like last year (105) and then improve defense with having more younger, active players. No point of getting better on defense and then not being able to even score 100. Right now in the league 105 is an average output. We're losing both Rose and Melo this summer. If we replace them with Baker and Harkless. Scoring wise. we're screwed.

Maybe a deal with Gordon and Harkless coming back.

Willy/O'Quinn/(Porzingis)
Porzingis/Thomas
Harkless/Lee
Hardaway/Gordon
Baker/Ntilikina/(Gordon)

Sometimes even go with a Gordon, Hardaway, Lee, Thomas, Porzingis lineup that will flat out be able to spread and shoot/score the ball.

Knick fans.... We just won 54 games but Melo sucks, need a PG, need another outside shooter and we may win the East. Management does nothing and we win 37 games. Knicks fans... scrap these losers! Phil comes in and does just that.

Knicks fans...we need to scrap everything for the sake of building with the draft. Phil signs Noah and Rose. Knick fans..great they may stay healthy? Phil knows what he is doing.

Phil ****s the bed for three years and Knick fans say the triangle is best route and it will be here for years. Melo us the cancer. Phil gets fired.No more triangle but Triangle draft pick made.

Knick fans...Gteat no problem. Now we just need to get rid of our biggest thorn and start fresh via the draft and young core. Management gives a player they gave up on 71M. Knick fans, great he is much better than a year ago when he was in D league. Great priced signing. And he still fits the young movement.

Knicks fans...Anderson id fine, Bledsoe sure, we need to get guys to be competitive and forget the tanking????

And people wonder how management makes stupid moves and walk in circles?

HofstraBBall wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I have to say, part of me is still open to the idea of trading for Eric Gordon, because the team doesn't have enough firepower to compete. Lets say the best player we get is Harkless - the projectiing starting 5 is Hernangomez/Porzingis/Harkless/Hardaway/Baker. That lineup will struggle to score over the long run of the regular season. Getting an Eric Gordon, and having CLee as well, both off the bench, all of a sudden you have serious perimeter scoring now with being able to put out Gordon, Clee, Hardaway all at once with KP. 4 shot makers.

To be competitive we need to be able to keep our scoring up like last year (105) and then improve defense with having more younger, active players. No point of getting better on defense and then not being able to even score 100. Right now in the league 105 is an average output. We're losing both Rose and Melo this summer. If we replace them with Baker and Harkless. Scoring wise. we're screwed.

Maybe a deal with Gordon and Harkless coming back.

Willy/O'Quinn/(Porzingis)
Porzingis/Thomas
Harkless/Lee
Hardaway/Gordon
Baker/Ntilikina/(Gordon)

Sometimes even go with a Gordon, Hardaway, Lee, Thomas, Porzingis lineup that will flat out be able to spread and shoot/score the ball.

Knick fans.... We just won 54 games but Melo sucks, need a PG, need another outside shooter and we may win the East. Management does nothing and we win 37 games. Knicks fans... scrap these losers! Phil comes in and does just that.

Knicks fans...we need to scrap everything for the sake of building with the draft. Phil signs Noah and Rose. Knick fans..great they may stay healthy? Phil knows what he is doing.

Phil ****s the bed for three years and Knick fans say the triangle is best route and it will be here for years. Melo us the cancer. Phil gets fired.No more triangle but Triangle draft pick made.

Knick fans...Gteat no problem. Now we just need to get rid of our biggest thorn and start fresh via the draft and young core. Management gives a player they gave up on 71M. Knick fans, great he is much better than a year ago when he was in D league. Great priced signing. And he still fits the young movement.

Knicks fans...Anderson id fine, Bledsoe sure, we need to get guys to be competitive and forget the tanking????

And people wonder how management makes stupid moves and walk in circles?

I think the problem we all think we can play GM, Armchair GM's But In reality we as fans know very little about running a team.