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FA class of 2005
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fishmike
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8/24/2004  10:02 AM
Can anyone post this? Looks like Chad's latest fluff.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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djsunyc
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8/24/2004  10:24 AM
for some reason, i can't cut and copy any of the insider stuff but one interesting thing he wrote is that he puts dalembert on the same level as curry and kwame. he ranks them as #10 on the list.

the list is as follows:

1. tmac (PO)
2. ak47 (R)
3. ray allen
4. gasol (R)
5. zach (R)
6. redd (PO)
7. tony parker (R)
8. reef
9. Z
10. dalember (R) but could be curry or kwame

(PO) is player option


[Edited by - djsunyc on 08/24/2004 10:24:50]
Bonn1997
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8/24/2004  10:30 AM
I woould have ranked theo ratliff (4 blocks/game) ahead of Shareef and maybe Dalembert and Big Z
raven
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8/24/2004  10:34 AM
ratliff is a fine blocker but is said to play fake defense only ot boost his block stats though I haven't see him play enough to confirm that.

Z if healthy is a heck of a scoring machine and more useful to many teams that theo. it happens not to be the case for the us, but it's the same old "the knicks are different" story !
franco12
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8/24/2004  10:34 AM
I don't think Theo will get the same pay day as Z, Shareef and Dalembert.
Bonn1997
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8/24/2004  10:34 AM
Ariza will be an FA in 2005 too. I wish we could have convinced him to sign a 3 yr deal here.
CTKnicksfan
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8/24/2004  10:49 AM
ESPN.com - NBA - Ford: 2005 free-agent sneak peek

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

Wait until next year.
That's the mantra being pushed in Atlanta, Portland, Golden State and Seattle
now that all of the top free agents have found homes and all four teams have
little to show for their efforts this summer. What they do have, along with
several other teams, is a boat load of cap space with which to work next year.
Assuming the cap stays at around $44 million, a number of teams will be looking
at huge cap room next summer. The Bobcats ($30 million), Hawks ($25 million),
Blazers ($22 million), Sonics ($19 million), Cavs ($18 million), Warriors ($14
million), Clippers ($14 million) and Bulls ($12 million) have more than $10
million in cap space at their disposal.
Will they really want or be able to use it? A number of the teams, including the
Blazers, Sonics, Cavs, Warriors and Bulls, have big free agents they'll want to
re-sign, eating up most of their cap room.
The rest will be battling it out for a solid, but aging group of unrestricted
free agents led by Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Michael Redd, Shareef Abdur-Rahim,
Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Theo Ratliff. Of that group, Allen and Abdur-Rahim are
the most likely to bolt for a new team.
There are also a host of good players who have opt outs in their contracts for
next year, including Shaquille O'Neal, Keith Van Horn and Jamal Mashburn.
However, they can't earn anywhere near what they're making right now on the open
free-agent market next summer, so don't expect them to opt out of their
contracts.
The restricted free-agent class looks much better, but remember, going after
restricted free agents in the summer is always a dicey proposition. Only two top
restricted free agents changed teams this summer. The Nuggets stole away Kenyon
Martin from New Jersey (the Nets eventually agreed to a sign-and-trade) and the
Suns pried Quentin Richardson away from the Clippers. Two top restricted free
agents, Darius Miles and Stromile Swift, have yet to get offers from anyone.
Also remember that teams have until Oct. 31 to give extensions to the many of
this year's restricted free agents. Richard Jefferson and Shane Battier have
already scored long-term deals and a number of other free agents, including
Andrei Kirilenko, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph and Tony Parker, could be locked up
before the season begins.
Here's Insider's first sneak peek at the free-agent class of 2005. While the
names on the board may leave fans breathless, there's little chance most of
these guys ever leave home.

Top 10 2005 Free Agents
Key = (R) = Restricted free agent | (PO) = Player Option | (TO) = Team Option

1. Tracy McGrady, G/F, Rockets (PO)
The skinny: The Rockets didn't trade away half their team to turn around
and lose McGrady in free agency. We can only assume that the Rockets received
the proper assurances from his agent that McGrady would either choose not to opt
out, or he agreed to sign a long-term extension in Houston. Still, with T-Mac,
you never know. If he and Jeff Van Gundy bump heads or if Yao, who is being
overworked again this summer, goes down with a major injury, who's to say that
T-Mac won't opt out and play the field. Now that there's a precedent set with
Carlos Boozer & nothing is impossible until T-Mac officially signs a long-term
extension in Houston.

2. Andrei Kirilenko, F, Jazz (R)
The skinny: The Jazz face an interesting dilemma here. Kirilenko wants
the max and there is plenty of statistical evidence to prove that he deserves
it. The Jazz know they can't afford to let Kirilenko walk next summer, but
aren't sure it benefits them to give him the max this summer, knowing that the
collective bargaining agreement is likely to change in the team's favor. Still,
if Kirilenko hits the free-agent market next summer, he'll be the hottest name
on the market. I haven't met a coach in the league that isn't in love with him.
I'd be shocked if he isn't in Utah for the next seven years however.

3. Ray Allen, SG, Sonics
The skinny: Of the top-tier guys on the list, Allen has the best shot of
leaving. He hired an agent, Lon Babby, to start hammering out a max extension
with the Sonics. The problem for Seattle is that it wasn't exactly smooth
sailing with Allen last season. If the Sonics let him go, the team has $19
million left in cap room. If they sign him to a max extension, they can kiss any
flexibility goodbye. If Allen is available, the Blazers, in particular, would
show a lot of interest.

4. Pau Gasol, F/C, Grizzlies (R)
The skinny: The former Rookie of the Year continues to improve in Memphis
and Jerry West has made it clear to other teams that he intends to lock up Gasol
to a long-term deal. The Grizzlies are in the same situation that the Jazz are
with Kirilenko, however. Gasol wants the max and the Grizzlies don't see any
benefit in paying full price now. Just about every team in the league would love
to get their hands on Gasol, but it's hard to believe that the Grizzlies
wouldn't match any offer next summer.

5. Zach Randolph, PF, Blazers (R)
The skinny: Randolph won the Most Improved Player Award and was dominant
in the paint for the Blazers last season. The team has made a commitment to
build around him and want to sign him to a long-term extension. However, the
Blazers are also in love with the idea of having lots of cap room and options
next summer and may hold off until next season to give Randolph a big pay day.

6. Michael Redd, SG, Bucks (PO)
The skinny: On July 1, 2005, Redd may very well be the hottest free agent on
the market. He's making just $3 million in Milwaukee this year and tried to bolt
the team two summers ago when he signed a three-year offer sheet with the Mavs.
Since then he's become one of the league's best shooters and an all-star. He'll
command a huge raise next summer, but many teams feel he'll be much more
affordable than most of the overpriced players on the market. The fact that
he'll be an unrestricted free agent makes things less complicated for teams that
want to pursue him. Given the salary limitations of the Bucks and the fact that
they paid Desmond Mason big bucks last summer, will they really be able to
outbid other teams next summer?

7. Tony Parker, PG, Spurs (R)
The skinny: If he doesn't sign an extension with the Spurs this fall,
Parker will be the only top-tier point guard on the market next summer. That
could translate into big bucks for the 22-year-old from France. Steve Nash, who
is eight years older, pulled down a six-year, $60 million deal from the Mavs.
Given the dearth of point guards on the market, Parker could easily exceed that.
A number of teams (the Hawks, Warriors, Blazers and Sonics) will all need a
point guard next year. Will the Spurs match? Spurs coach Gregg Popovich has a
love hate relationship with Parker. The Spurs are so conservative financially,
it's not out of the question that they'll balk at the asking price to keep
Parker in San Antonio.

8. Shareef Abdur-Rahim, PF, Blazers
The skinny: Abdur-Rahim is an enigma. Every year he puts up great
stats on whatever team he's playing for, but he's never played on a team with a
winning record. Never. He's threatening to hold out the season if the Blazers
don't trade him. He knows that Zach Randolph is their future star at the four
and doesn't want to play the three next year. At just 27 years of age,
Abdur-Rahim still has plenty of juice left. He'd be perfect on a team like the
Cavaliers, where he can play second or third fiddle to a star.

9. Zydrunas Ilgauskas, C, Cavs
The skinny: It's pretty rare when an all-star-caliber center comes on
the unrestricted market. Ilgauskas has issues. He turns 30 next June and has a
history of foot injuries that would scare away any team doctor. However, his
ability to score in the paint and block shots makes him a coveted commodity in a
league that lacks big guys. The Cavs want to re-sign him, but at about half of
the $14 million he'll make next season. If Ilgauskas pushes for more, don't be
shocked if the Cavs turn around and trade him before the deadline in an effort
to salvage something in return.

10. Samuel Dalembert, C, Sixers (R)
The skinny: This spot could easily belong to Kwame Brown or Eddy Curry.
What all three have in common is that they're young, big and still unproven. But
of all of the talented big men from the class of 2001, Dalembert is the most
coveted at the moment. His April numbers (12.3 ppg, 12.4 rpg, 4.8 bpg) were
stunning. Dalembert has the size, athleticism and work ethic to be a Ben
Wallace-type defensive force somewhere down the road. Brown and Curry may have
more upside offensively, but Dalembert is more proven defensively. Given what
the Pistons did this year, that's a skill that is suddenly a hot commodity. The
Sixers are telling everyone that he's untouchable and that they plan to re-sign
him … but at what price. If Dalembert could duplicate his April numbers all of
next season, he's looking at near max-type numbers. The Sixers aren't prepared
to offer him anything near that right now.

Best of the rest
Player/Team Option: Shaquille O'Neal, C, Heat (PO); Keith Van Horn, F, Bucks
(PO); Cuttino Mobley, SG, Magic (PO); Jalen Rose, SG, Raptors (PO); Grant Hill,
SF, Magic (PO); Jamal Mashburn, SF, Hornets (PO); Bonzi Wells, SG, Grizzlies
(TO); Antonio Daniels, PG, Sonics (PO); Eddie Jones, SG, Heat (PO); Nick Van
Exel, PG, Blazers (TO); Bobby Jackson, PG, Kings (TO); Devean George, SF, Lakers
(PO); Peja Drobjnak, C, Hawks (TO); Austin Croshere, F, Pacers (PO); Cliff
Robinson, F, Warriors (TO)

Note: It's very unlikely that most of the players on the above list will
exercise their player options, that's why they weren't listed on the Top 10
list. The only exceptions could be Mobley and Daniels, who might opt out in an
attempt to get more money elsewhere.

Unrestricted: Theo Ratliff, C, Blazers; Stromile Swift, F, Grizzlies; Darius
Miles, F, Blazers; Antoine Walker, F, Hawks; Donyell Marshall, F, Raptors;
Latrell Sprewell, SG, Timberwolves; Jeff McInnis, PG, Cavs; Kerry Kittles, SG,
Clippers; Larry Hughes, G, Wizards; Glenn Robinson, SF, Sixers; Damon
Stoudamire, PG, Blazers; Jerome James, C, Sonics; Gary Payton, PG, Celtics;
Jahidi White, C, Bobcats; Dale Davis, C, Warriors; Bo Outlaw, F, Grizzlies;
Ervin Johnson, C, Timberwolves; Raja Bell, G/F, Jazz; Mark Madsen, F,
Timberwolves; Tyronn Lue, PG, Rockets; Darrell Armstrong, PG, Hornets.

Restricted: Kwame Brown, PF, Wizards; Tyson Chandler, F/C, Bulls; Eddy Curry, C,
Bulls; Joe Johnson, G/F, Suns; Jason Richardson, SG, Warriors; Troy Murphy, PF,
Warriors; Jamaal Tinsley, PG, Pacers; Vladimir Radmanovic, F, Sonics; Marko
Jarics, PG, Clippers; Brendon Haywood, C, Wizards; Gerald Wallace, G/F, Bobcats;
Jason Collins, C, Nets; Primoz Brezec, C, Bobcats; DeSagana Diop, C, Cavs.

Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.

fishmike
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8/24/2004  10:57 AM
"DeSagana Diop, C, Cavs"

Thats my guy. To me if we could secure him even if it means overpaying you do that. After that use the full MLE on Ratliff and your looking at something like this to start next year
Marbury
Crawford/Houston
TT/Ariza
Sweetney
Ratliff/Diop

Young, long, athletic, balanced, big.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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8/24/2004  11:08 AM
Posted by fishmike:

"DeSagana Diop, C, Cavs"

Thats my guy. To me if we could secure him even if it means overpaying you do that. After that use the full MLE on Ratliff and your looking at something like this to start next year
Marbury
Crawford/Houston
TT/Ariza
Sweetney
Ratliff/Diop

Young, long, athletic, balanced, big.
What do you like so much about Diop? I haven't seen him much, but he hasn't impressed me
TMS
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8/24/2004  11:13 AM
i go after Theo Ratliff or Stromile Swift w/the MLE

(how do you propose to go after both Diop & Ratliff?)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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8/24/2004  11:26 AM
Ratliff is a FA.. so use the MLE on him.
Diop is an RFA and honestly I dont know where is value will be come season's end. big Z will be in a contract year and playing at a high level, and he's not that old to start...

I'm hoping something like Nazr (expiring deal and good backup to Z), cash and the draft rights to whoever we pick w/ our #1 for Diop in a S&T something starting around $6mm. The worst he can be at 22 years old is an overpriced Adonal Foyal (Diop is MUCH bigger) but you still have 2 good defensive shotblockers at center. One established and one with great potential. Also two good players to pair w/ Sweetney
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
raven
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8/24/2004  11:28 AM
diop is said to have very good athleticism, but is he ready to be a strating center ? I have absolutly no clue about that.

did someone ever see him play ?
fishmike
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8/24/2004  11:53 AM
Ive probably seen him play about 10 times. He's huge. Probably over 7 foot and around 280. He's a very fluid athlete. He's boad on offense but I think a lot of that is that he didnt play organized ball until he was 16 or something. He's a great shotblocker, good rebounder and good at garbage points. No way he's ready to start but w/ his athleticism and size the sky is the limit. Worse case is you have a great defensive presence at the 5 for years to come. If you believe Sweetney can be a scorer in the post in this league than its an even better pairing.

We arent getting an all star bigman w/ our assets... we just arent. So our options are to draft one mid-late first round and develop him for 2-3 years, or take a chance on one who's got a shot at being a solid contributor in the next year or so. The difference is one costs time, another costs money.

Diop is like a 7 foot version of Nazr that can block shots... maybe a little more raw.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigSm00th
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8/24/2004  11:57 AM
Your going to trade a draft pick for Diop? That's insane, he might be the worst lottery pick in NBA history.

He averages 3.4 blocks per 48 minutes and a measly 0.8 per game, what do you see about him being a great shotblocker? Nazr for this guy straight up is a coup for the Cavs, they should be giving the Knicks something in terms of picks (2nd rounder?).

I like some of the potential Cs in the upcoming draft. Kosta Perovic, Tiago Splitter, and Channing Frye are three guys who do different things (Perovic is compared to Ilgauskas, good offensive game, huge body; Splitter is another good athlete who is 7 feet tall; Frye is a good all-around player, athletic.

I'd much rather have one of these guys who are a few years younger than Diop and possibly more developed.
#Knickstaps
TMS
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8/24/2004  11:59 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Ratliff is a FA.. so use the MLE on him.
Diop is an RFA and honestly I dont know where is value will be come season's end. big Z will be in a contract year and playing at a high level, and he's not that old to start...

I'm hoping something like Nazr (expiring deal and good backup to Z), cash and the draft rights to whoever we pick w/ our #1 for Diop in a S&T something starting around $6mm. The worst he can be at 22 years old is an overpriced Adonal Foyal (Diop is MUCH bigger) but you still have 2 good defensive shotblockers at center. One established and one with great potential. Also two good players to pair w/ Sweetney

for a package of Nazr, cash & a 1st round pick i would want to get someone like Kwame Brown...for Diop, i think an expiring deal of a scrub player (Moochie) & a future restricted 1st rounder (or draft rights to a bigman you draft next season) should be more than enough.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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8/24/2004  12:11 PM
Diop is 22... Wash will laugh at that trade for Kwame who's probably a year or two away from being a dominating player. Diop had an excellent start last year, then Z was getting more and more of the minutes.

Dalembert w/ probably be untouchable and Wash w/ match any offer for Kwame. They sure as hell arent trading one of the league's promising bigs for Nazr and a late pick. Diop is a project, no doubt.

Maybe he's the one you use the MLE (not 6 years), but then your SOL on Ratliff. Port loves him, but has been cheap as of late (see Miles). We have a chance at him w/ the MLE and he fills a clear need.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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8/24/2004  12:32 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Diop is 22... Wash will laugh at that trade for Kwame who's probably a year or two away from being a dominating player. Diop had an excellent start last year, then Z was getting more and more of the minutes.

Dalembert w/ probably be untouchable and Wash w/ match any offer for Kwame. They sure as hell arent trading one of the league's promising bigs for Nazr and a late pick. Diop is a project, no doubt.

Maybe he's the one you use the MLE (not 6 years), but then your SOL on Ratliff. Port loves him, but has been cheap as of late (see Miles). We have a chance at him w/ the MLE and he fills a clear need.

I agree, this is the type of player you go for now, we all know with nazr that we are not going to the next level. Diop has a ton of potential and at the worst you have a young tall shot blocker and rebounder, I have watched Diop play and he shows signs of breaking through, we need to get him now. if we wait until he starts showing signs like Kwame brown did then you can forget getting him.... We need to take chances with guys like this now..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TMS
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8/24/2004  12:46 PM
Diop for Nazr straight up should be enough like another poster already said...otherwise, i wouldn't offer up anything more than Moochie & a future protected 1st round pick...if CLE expects more than that, let them go ahead & try to get more for him in a trade...my bet is they won't be able to find anyone willing to give up much more than that.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
KNICKSdom
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8/24/2004  3:39 PM
I like Diop for Nazr in a trade. Diop hasn't impressed much lately but he is still long and athletic AND young enough to develop into a better player. Diop can go the route of J'Oneal when he wents from Portland obscurity to Indiana all-star.
Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
simrud
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8/24/2004  4:01 PM
Here we go again with Diop. Just cause he is 7 feet tall does not make him anything. He is a bust. Pure garbage. He stunk in the summer league, every yeah. He stunk in the actual season games, every year. It has been 3 years, and all he did was stink up the joint. He is a total absolute stiff. Trading Mohammed for him is a joke.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
FA class of 2005

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