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The Knicks' offer sheet to Tim Hardaway Jr. is the first truly bad contract of the 2017 offseason
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Andrew
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7/7/2017  1:58 PM
KCP "reported" asking price is $24M.......per year. It will be interesting if he gets that and will shed some light on the market for these young guys.
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EwingsGlass
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7/7/2017  2:01 PM
Andrew wrote:KCP "reported" asking price is $24M.......per year. It will be interesting if he gets that and will shed some light on the market for these young guys.

I guess the question is what production you get out of alternatives from the DLeague. How much better is THJ than Dotson?

yellowboy90
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7/7/2017  2:01 PM
Andrew wrote:KCP "reported" asking price is $24M.......per year. It will be interesting if he gets that and will shed some light on the market for these young guys.

You can argue Hardaway Jr is a better player than KCP.

Andrew
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7/7/2017  2:13 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
Andrew wrote:KCP "reported" asking price is $24M.......per year. It will be interesting if he gets that and will shed some light on the market for these young guys.

I guess the question is what production you get out of alternatives from the DLeague. How much better is THJ than Dotson?

Honestly that isn't even comparable (D league guys). True D league guys (not ones sent down to get experience) aren't guys you can plug into the starting lineup.

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SupremeCommander
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7/7/2017  2:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/7/2017  2:24 PM
This has the potential of being a worse deal than Noah's. If he gets a good start to the year it's because he's"healthy". And maybe we can move him to a contender at the deadline. Unless THJ blows up, we're stuck with him for the duration of his deal. We can't even trade him as an expiring contact. He's Melo Jr, without the HOF credentials
fishmike said: Yes. Sometimes I confuse the alerts with when your mom calls. BTW she said defensive guards are really important.
Sinix
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7/7/2017  2:30 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:This has the potential of being a worse deal than Noah's. If he gets a good start to the year it's because he's"healthy". And maybe we can move him to a contender at the deadline. Unless THJ blows up, we're stuck with him for the duration of his deal. We can't even trade him as an expiring contact. He's Melo Jr, without the HOF credentials

THjr is closer to a D leaguer than a starter.

Take into account he just got his payday too. Better chance he gets worse than better now that he got paid and by the biggest suckers in the league, the Knicks.

technomaster
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7/7/2017  2:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/7/2017  2:31 PM
I'm pretty sure they'll match.

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Bonn1997
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7/7/2017  2:52 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Kemet wrote:We are TANKING the next 4 seasons .. Stupid is what stupid does!
Tim Hardaway dont play a lick of defense opponents guards score on THJ at will.
We would have done much-much better resigning Holiday.
I thought we were trying to sign Rondo !!!

Young Timmy was a bad defender. But the ability was always there, and he became a good defender . His defensive +/- were excellent last year. I think people who haven't watched him play last season and just think we're getting super young raw Timmy we had drafted are in for a pleasant surprise. Timmy became the best player on that hawks team, he brought them to the playoffs, that's more then melo could do with rose and KP!

His DBPM last season was -1.5. That's below average (0). Don't make up stats to prove your point.

Second, his 4 year contract is not coterminous with other contracts making it an independent buying decision. You will have Timmy when KP is gone.

Third, that Hawks team was a playoff team before THJ got there. There performanxe since his arrival has been worse, but there are far more variables involved.

Last, wings that leace ATL tend to perform worse than the contracts they get. Ask Toronto.

The box plus minus stats look only at what shows up in the box score (like rebounds, steals). It has only a minimal connection to how good a defender someone is. There's another thread with actual stats on his man to man defense.

fishmike
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7/7/2017  2:58 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Kemet wrote:We are TANKING the next 4 seasons .. Stupid is what stupid does!
Tim Hardaway dont play a lick of defense opponents guards score on THJ at will.
We would have done much-much better resigning Holiday.
I thought we were trying to sign Rondo !!!

Young Timmy was a bad defender. But the ability was always there, and he became a good defender . His defensive +/- were excellent last year. I think people who haven't watched him play last season and just think we're getting super young raw Timmy we had drafted are in for a pleasant surprise. Timmy became the best player on that hawks team, he brought them to the playoffs, that's more then melo could do with rose and KP!

His DBPM last season was -1.5. That's below average (0). Don't make up stats to prove your point.

Second, his 4 year contract is not coterminous with other contracts making it an independent buying decision. You will have Timmy when KP is gone.

Third, that Hawks team was a playoff team before THJ got there. There performanxe since his arrival has been worse, but there are far more variables involved.

Last, wings that leace ATL tend to perform worse than the contracts they get. Ask Toronto.

The box plus minus stats look only at what shows up in the box score (like rebounds, steals). It has only a minimal connection to how good a defender someone is. There's another thread with actual stats on his man to man defense.

and opposing FG%

I mean the #s are there to back this up.

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fitzfarm
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7/7/2017  3:54 PM
fishmike wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Kemet wrote:We are TANKING the next 4 seasons .. Stupid is what stupid does!
Tim Hardaway dont play a lick of defense opponents guards score on THJ at will.
We would have done much-much better resigning Holiday.
I thought we were trying to sign Rondo !!!

Young Timmy was a bad defender. But the ability was always there, and he became a good defender . His defensive +/- were excellent last year. I think people who haven't watched him play last season and just think we're getting super young raw Timmy we had drafted are in for a pleasant surprise. Timmy became the best player on that hawks team, he brought them to the playoffs, that's more then melo could do with rose and KP!

His DBPM last season was -1.5. That's below average (0). Don't make up stats to prove your point.

Second, his 4 year contract is not coterminous with other contracts making it an independent buying decision. You will have Timmy when KP is gone.

Third, that Hawks team was a playoff team before THJ got there. There performanxe since his arrival has been worse, but there are far more variables involved.

Last, wings that leace ATL tend to perform worse than the contracts they get. Ask Toronto.

The box plus minus stats look only at what shows up in the box score (like rebounds, steals). It has only a minimal connection to how good a defender someone is. There's another thread with actual stats on his man to man defense.

and opposing FG%

I mean the #s are there to back this up.

Exactly the numbers are there and if you actually watched the hawks games

1. He was the best player on the floor for them

2. He actually played really good defense, why is this hard to believe? He always had the athletic ability to defend. He was just young on the knicks how many young players suck on defense? ALOT.

3. The haters are in typical New York fashion, judging a player from when he was a kid on a terrible knick team 3 years ago. Timmy at 25 is NOT Timmy of 22.

This is why the high expectations of KP are crazy, the kid is only 21 years old . He's not even going to come close to his potential this year hopeful the media doesn't chase him outta town before he reaches his potential prob at 24-26.

Heck even curry took 5 years to reach his potential...point is stop judging players that are just kids trying to figure out the NBA Timmy seems to have turned the corner

EwingsGlass
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10/24/2017  10:56 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Kemet wrote:We are TANKING the next 4 seasons .. Stupid is what stupid does!
Tim Hardaway dont play a lick of defense opponents guards score on THJ at will.
We would have done much-much better resigning Holiday.
I thought we were trying to sign Rondo !!!

Young Timmy was a bad defender. But the ability was always there, and he became a good defender . His defensive +/- were excellent last year. I think people who haven't watched him play last season and just think we're getting super young raw Timmy we had drafted are in for a pleasant surprise. Timmy became the best player on that hawks team, he brought them to the playoffs, that's more then melo could do with rose and KP!

His DBPM last season was -1.5. That's below average (0). Don't make up stats to prove your point.

Second, his 4 year contract is not coterminous with other contracts making it an independent buying decision. You will have Timmy when KP is gone.

Third, that Hawks team was a playoff team before THJ got there. There performanxe since his arrival has been worse, but there are far more variables involved.

Last, wings that leace ATL tend to perform worse than the contracts they get. Ask Toronto.

How bout that THJ so far? 3 games is premature were it not completely predictable. This is kind of like an odd lot replacement horse in the Belmont stumbling out of the gate. Not really surprising. Kind of funny watching folks crumblong their 32-1s on a horse that had 1 good race in the last 12. And maybe the horse will run like the wind and finish strong. Or, maybe its just a ok horse. Best case is THj reqds this and comes out fired up. Worst case happened when we signed him for an outrageous contract. Let the hate fall on me. But, all you former Vujacic lovers turned Baker converts cant say boo. Ps Baker's contract is absurd also. I kiked him at rookie min he is priced out of my favor. He is more likely to earn out than THJ.still a overpriced contract

BRIGGS
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10/24/2017  11:09 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
Kemet wrote:We are TANKING the next 4 seasons .. Stupid is what stupid does!
Tim Hardaway dont play a lick of defense opponents guards score on THJ at will.
We would have done much-much better resigning Holiday.
I thought we were trying to sign Rondo !!!

Young Timmy was a bad defender. But the ability was always there, and he became a good defender . His defensive +/- were excellent last year. I think people who haven't watched him play last season and just think we're getting super young raw Timmy we had drafted are in for a pleasant surprise. Timmy became the best player on that hawks team, he brought them to the playoffs, that's more then melo could do with rose and KP!

His DBPM last season was -1.5. That's below average (0). Don't make up stats to prove your point.

Second, his 4 year contract is not coterminous with other contracts making it an independent buying decision. You will have Timmy when KP is gone.

Third, that Hawks team was a playoff team before THJ got there. There performanxe since his arrival has been worse, but there are far more variables involved.

Last, wings that leace ATL tend to perform worse than the contracts they get. Ask Toronto.

How bout that THJ so far? 3 games is premature were it not completely predictable. This is kind of like an odd lot replacement horse in the Belmont stumbling out of the gate. Not really surprising. Kind of funny watching folks crumblong their 32-1s on a horse that had 1 good race in the last 12. And maybe the horse will run like the wind and finish strong. Or, maybe its just a ok horse. Best case is THj reqds this and comes out fired up. Worst case happened when we signed him for an outrageous contract. Let the hate fall on me. But, all you former Vujacic lovers turned Baker converts cant say boo. Ps Baker's contract is absurd also. I kiked him at rookie min he is priced out of my favor. He is more likely to earn out than THJ.still a overpriced contract

The bottom line--the guy who authorized the deal is Steve Mills who has been the President or whatever for multiple 20 win seasons. Lets wait for the next blog where he can explain to us how Ronny Baker is part of the new championship core. Ron Baker hit the lottery and THJ won the powerball. Both are NOT even close to guys who plays for championships. Do we want this guy buying the groceries?

nykshaknbake
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10/24/2017  11:10 PM
Anyone miss the THjr the first time he was with the Knicks? Because that version sure beats this one.
BigDaddyG
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10/24/2017  11:56 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:Anyone miss the THjr the first time he was with the Knicks? Because that version sure beats this one.

That version would still be a questionable. But I can't bash THjr after only a few games. But the signing...we have so many holes on this roster and to use up our salary cap on THjr didn't make sense. This isn't a win now, or a year from now, team.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
BRIGGS
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10/25/2017  12:01 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:Anyone miss the THjr the first time he was with the Knicks? Because that version sure beats this one.

That version would still be a questionable. But I can't bash THjr after only a few games. But the signing...we have so many holes on this roster and to use up our salary cap on THjr didn't make sense. This isn't a win now, or a year from now, team.

Hes a wild player--Ive never seen a really big time team play with something like THJ. Hes going to have good games but spending 70+++mm on him was poor judgement. The problem is--for Knick fans--we have to rely on the decision makers for the team's success. Why on Earth does Dolan--who has spent more money than any owner in the last 20 years of basketball--and not even close right??? for all these L's why did he buy into a rehashed Knicks management?? Dolan cannot be a stupid guy--but hes been really bad for the Knicks fans.

mlby1215
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10/25/2017  1:03 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:Anyone miss the THjr the first time he was with the Knicks? Because that version sure beats this one.

That version would still be a questionable. But I can't bash THjr after only a few games. But the signing...we have so many holes on this roster and to use up our salary cap on THjr didn't make sense. This isn't a win now, or a year from now, team.

Hes a wild player--Ive never seen a really big time team play with something like THJ. Hes going to have good games but spending 70+++mm on him was poor judgement. The problem is--for Knick fans--we have to rely on the decision makers for the team's success. Why on Earth does Dolan--who has spent more money than any owner in the last 20 years of basketball--and not even close right??? for all these L's why did he buy into a rehashed Knicks management?? Dolan cannot be a stupid guy--but hes been really bad for the Knicks fans.

You should understand a lot of him by firing Phil Jackson. He was not doing it for fans.

GustavBahler
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10/25/2017  2:17 AM
I was as down on this deal as anyone else. Hence the thread. But I believe its too early to call it on THJ. Not when we are without a legit starting PG. The offense is stagnant.
nyknickzingis
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10/25/2017  4:58 AM
This is Hardaway though.
He struggles then he has really hot stretches.
He's a starting level SG, but not more.
I expect him to have a stretch where he'll look great.
Overall he is who he is.
The Knicks were expecting a guy that maybe could take another step. Clearly that is not the case.
Nalod
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10/25/2017  7:19 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:This is Hardaway though.
He struggles then he has really hot stretches.
He's a starting level SG, but not more.
I expect him to have a stretch where he'll look great.
Overall he is who he is.
The Knicks were expecting a guy that maybe could take another step. Clearly that is not the case.

He took the step last season.

3 games in he is:

1. Sucks balls man!
2 trying to do too much?
3. Putting too much pressure on himself/
4 Letting the pressure get to him.
5 Awful and Mills should be fired which will nullify his contract and we can use the time machine to fix it.

Anger sells, don't buy!
Moonangie
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10/25/2017  8:56 AM
Nalod wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:This is Hardaway though.
He struggles then he has really hot stretches.
He's a starting level SG, but not more.
I expect him to have a stretch where he'll look great.
Overall he is who he is.
The Knicks were expecting a guy that maybe could take another step. Clearly that is not the case.

He took the step last season.

3 games in he is:

1. Sucks balls man!
2 trying to do too much?
3. Putting too much pressure on himself/
4 Letting the pressure get to him.
5 Awful and Mills should be fired which will nullify his contract and we can use the time machine to fix it.

NYC just ain't the right fit for some peeps. I like THjr, but mainly because of his pedigree. Wish he were more thick-skinned than his pops. We could really use a THsr right about now.

The Knicks' offer sheet to Tim Hardaway Jr. is the first truly bad contract of the 2017 offseason

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