Cartman718 wrote:i would have wanted him back but probably at 10 million less over 4 years. shumpert 10 per year. thj 18 per year? if you look at offense defense differential is it that different from each other and i agree i would not want shumpert.

In this market 15 mil is about right. To force Atlanta to let Junior go we had to over pay. So the second look at this deal its not that bad. Crabbe is my comparison... Hes a bum, Junior is a legit scorer.

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:i would have wanted him back but probably at 10 million less over 4 years. shumpert 10 per year. thj 18 per year? if you look at offense defense differential is it that different from each other and i agree i would not want shumpert.

In this market 15 mil is about right. To force Atlanta to let Junior go we had to over pay. So the second look at this deal its not that bad. Crabbe is my comparison... Hes a bum, Junior is a legit scorer.

yes cause Crabbe should be your level set right?

Hard to trust the judgement of someone who has delivered little, if anything for this franchise, throughout many years of service.

I guess we're going to find out just how much THJ's game has changed, and if he learned any lessons from his last time in NY. I hope it works out.

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:i would have wanted him back but probably at 10 million less over 4 years. shumpert 10 per year. thj 18 per year? if you look at offense defense differential is it that different from each other and i agree i would not want shumpert.

In this market 15 mil is about right. To force Atlanta to let Junior go we had to over pay. So the second look at this deal its not that bad. Crabbe is my comparison... Hes a bum, Junior is a legit scorer.

yes cause Crabbe should be your level set right?

Contacts are the same... Crabbe has been garbage. Junior has a chance to have a breakout year

You had a chance to run spell check too, but that didn't happen. I had a chance to ignore your argument, that didn't happen either. Hillary had a chance to become the first woman president of the US...shall I go on?

Like you, Atlanta needs to "Match One"

EnySpree wrote:

joec32033 wrote:I posted on the other thread. THJ's contract is ranked at 15 among NBA shooting guards.

16 cuz of Crabbe

 7 July 2017  0:32    LAST EDITED: 7 July 2017  0:52

Andrew wrote:15M the starting point for a starting 2 guard? Similar to the contract the Hawks gave to Kent Bazemore. Someone list some other contracts signed for shooting guards (starters)

2017 Shooting Guard Cap Hit Rankings

2017 Shooting Guard Cap Hit Rankings

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/rankings/cap-hit/shooting-guard/

Player Pts/Ast/Reb/Per (per ESPN player cards)

2017 cap-hit

1 James Harden
James Harden
Shooting Guard $28,299,399

2 DeMar DeRozan
DeMar DeRozan
Shooting Guard $27,739,975

3 C.J. McCollum /23.0 3.6 3.6 19.99
C.J. McCollum
Shooting Guard $23,962,572

4 Dwyane Wade
Dwyane Wade
Shooting Guard $23,800,000

5 Bradley Beal /23.1 3.5 3.1 20.21
Bradley Beal
Shooting Guard $23,775,506

6 J.J. Redick
J.J. Redick
Shooting Guard $23,000,000

7 Nicolas Batum /15.1 5.9 6.2 15.86
Nicolas Batum
Shooting Guard $22,434,783

8 Victor Oladipo /15.9 2.6 4.3 13.62
Victor Oladipo
Shooting Guard $21,000,000

9 Jimmy Butler
Jimmy Butler
Shooting Guard $19,300,894

10 Wesley Matthews/13.5 2.9 3.5 11.93
Wesley Matthews
Shooting Guard $17,884,175

11 Klay Thompson /22.3 2.1 3.7 17.53
Klay Thompson
Shooting Guard $17,826,150

12 Andre Iguodala /7.6 3.4 4.0 14.37
Andre Iguodala
Shooting Guard $17,391,304

13 Evan Fournier/17.2 3.0 3.1 13.99
Evan Fournier
Shooting Guard $17,000,000

14 Tim Hardaway Jr./14.5 2.3 2.8 15.26
Tim Hardaway Jr.
Shooting Guard $16,511,628

15 Jamal Crawford/12.3 2.6 1.6 12.06
Jamal Crawford
Shooting Guard $14,246,988

16 J.R. Smith /8.6 1.5 2.8 8.11
J.R. Smith
Shooting Guard $13,760,000

17 Eric Gordon /16.2 2.5 2.7 13.22
Eric Gordon
Shooting Guard $12,943,020

18 Dion Waiters /15.8 4.3 3.3 14.61
Dion Waiters
Shooting Guard $12,093,023

19 Austin Rivers
Austin Rivers
Shooting Guard $11,825,000

20 Courtney Lee
Courtney Lee
Shooting Guard $11,747,890

21 Jordan Clarkson
Jordan Clarkson
Shooting Guard $11,562,500

22 Iman Shumpert
Iman Shumpert
Shooting Guard $10,337,079

23 Danny Green
Danny Green
Shooting Guard $10,000,000

24 Matthew Dellavedova
Matthew Dellavedova
Shooting Guard $9,607,500

25 Andre Roberson
Andre Roberson
Shooting Guard $9,259,259

26 Avery Bradley
Avery Bradley
Shooting Guard $8,808,989

27 Bogdan Bogdanovic
Bogdan Bogdanovic
Shooting Guard $8,571,429

28 E'Twaun Moore
E'Twaun Moore
Shooting Guard $8,445,024

29 Vince Carter
Vince Carter
Shooting Guard $8,000,000

Garrett Temple
Garrett Temple
Shooting Guard $8,000,000

31 Corey Brewer
Corey Brewer
Shooting Guard $7,579,366

32 Louis Williams
Louis Williams
Shooting Guard $7,000,000

Jeremy Lamb
Jeremy Lamb
Shooting Guard $7,000,000

34 Kyle Korver
Kyle Korver
Shooting Guard $6,481,481

35 Wayne Ellington
Wayne Ellington
Shooting Guard $6,270,000

36 Tyler Johnson
Tyler Johnson
Shooting Guard $5,881,260

Wesley Johnson
Wesley Johnson
Shooting Guard $5,881,260

38 Alex Abrines
Alex Abrines
Shooting Guard $5,725,000

39 Ben McLemore
Ben McLemore
Shooting Guard $5,192,000

40 Dante Exum
Dante Exum
Shooting Guard $4,992,385

41 Justin Holiday
Justin Holiday
Shooting Guard $4,390,244

42 Nik Stauskas
Nik Stauskas
Shooting Guard $3,807,147

43 Buddy Hield
Buddy Hield
Shooting Guard $3,675,480

44 Will Barton
Will Barton
Shooting Guard $3,533,333

45 Mike Miller
Mike Miller
Shooting Guard $3,500,000

46 Troy Daniels
Troy Daniels
Shooting Guard $3,408,520

47 Jodie Meeks
Jodie Meeks
Shooting Guard $3,290,000

48 Zach LaVine
Zach LaVine
Shooting Guard $3,202,218

49 Seth Curry
Seth Curry
Shooting Guard $3,028,410

50 Tomas Satoransky
Tomas Satoransky
Shooting Guard $3,000,000

51 Malik Monk
Malik Monk
Shooting Guard $2,904,480

52 Luke Kennard
Luke Kennard
Shooting Guard $2,759,280

53 Donovan Mitchell
Donovan Mitchell
Shooting Guard $2,621,280

54 Gary Harris
Gary Harris
Shooting Guard $2,550,055

55 Malcom Delaney
Malcom Delaney
Shooting Guard $2,500,000

56 Rodney Hood
Rodney Hood
Shooting Guard $2,386,864

57 Devin Booker
Devin Booker
Shooting Guard $2,319,360

58 Denzel Valentine
Denzel Valentine
Shooting Guard $2,186,400

59 Rashad Vaughn
Rashad Vaughn
Shooting Guard $1,889,040

60 Jordan Crawford
Jordan Crawford
Shooting Guard $1,709,538

61 Malik Beasley
Malik Beasley
Shooting Guard $1,700,640

62 Caris LeVert
Caris LeVert
Shooting Guard $1,632,480

63 Justin Anderson
Justin Anderson
Shooting Guard $1,579,440

64 Archie Goodwin
Archie Goodwin
Shooting Guard $1,577,230

DeAndre Liggins
DeAndre Liggins
Shooting Guard $1,577,230

66 DeAndre' Bembry
DeAndre' Bembry
Shooting Guard $1,567,200

67 Elijah Millsap
Elijah Millsap
Shooting Guard $1,524,305

Joe Harris
Joe Harris
Shooting Guard $1,524,305

Sean Kilpatrick
Sean Kilpatrick
Shooting Guard $1,524,305

70 Malachi Richardson
Malachi Richardson
Shooting Guard $1,504,560

71 Pat Connaughton
Pat Connaughton
Shooting Guard $1,471,382

Norman Powell
Norman Powell
Shooting Guard $1,471,382

Josh Richardson
Josh Richardson
Shooting Guard $1,471,382

Glen Robinson III
Glen Robinson III
Shooting Guard $1,471,382

Axel Toupane
Axel Toupane
Shooting Guard $1,471,382

Briante Weber
Briante Weber
Shooting Guard $1,471,382

77 Furkan Korkmaz
Furkan Korkmaz
Shooting Guard $1,465,920

78 Josh Hart
Josh Hart
Shooting Guard $1,394,520

79 Patrick McCaw
Patrick McCaw
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Rodney McGruder
Rodney McGruder
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Sheldon McLellan
Sheldon McLellan
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

David Nwaba
David Nwaba
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Wayne Selden
Wayne Selden
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Bryn Forbes
Bryn Forbes
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Michael Gbinije
Michael Gbinije
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Marcus Georges-Hunt
Marcus Georges-Hunt
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Treveon Graham
Treveon Graham
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

Malcolm Brogdon
Malcolm Brogdon
Shooting Guard $1,312,611

89 Davon Reed
Davon Reed
Shooting Guard $815,615

Edit: 14. My bad.

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:i would have wanted him back but probably at 10 million less over 4 years. shumpert 10 per year. thj 18 per year? if you look at offense defense differential is it that different from each other and i agree i would not want shumpert.

In this market 15 mil is about right. To force Atlanta to let Junior go we had to over pay. So the second look at this deal its not that bad. Crabbe is my comparison... Hes a bum, Junior is a legit scorer.

yes cause Crabbe should be your level set right?

Contracts are the same... Crabbe has been garbage. Junior has a chance to have a breakout year

What did Crabbe shot from 3 last year? Hardaway?

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:i would have wanted him back but probably at 10 million less over 4 years. shumpert 10 per year. thj 18 per year? if you look at offense defense differential is it that different from each other and i agree i would not want shumpert.

In this market 15 mil is about right. To force Atlanta to let Junior go we had to over pay. So the second look at this deal its not that bad. Crabbe is my comparison... Hes a bum, Junior is a legit scorer.

Agreed....All NBA teams overpay to get the player away from the home team...I would much tather overpay for a 25yr who is trending up than a broken down/oft injured player whose good yrs are behind him...

SocraticBallin22 wrote:I know the consensus is that it's an insane amount of money and commitment for THJ--and I may agree--but please allow me to play Devil's Advocate for a second and make the Case for the THJ Offer Sheet:

1) Following the Korver trade last year, THJ averaged 18 ppg on 47% shooting from the field and 38% shooting from 3 (elite SG numbers across the board). By giving him this offer sheet, the assumption is that he can produce like this for the 4 year term of the contract. If so, this price becomes more than reasonable.

To put it another way, if I told you Player 'A' (forget the name right now) who is 25 years old will average 18 - 20 ppg on 47% shooting and 37% from 3, would you offer him a 4 year, 71 million contract? Your answer would be: yes...that would be a bargain for those statistics and a player that age entering his prime. The question remains: can he consistently produce like this or was it a fluke?

2) In the playoffs, he was one of the leading scorers on the Hawks and impressed outplaying Bazemore, who has a similar deal to what we just offered THJ and was invisible in the playoffs. He showed he can step up and play under pressure and be a lead guy. Not every player can do this. He has this in his genes from his father, who was a clutch player and played better under pressure. You don't think it's valuable to have a player like this on your team?

3) Regardless of the amount, he fits the timeline of the rebuild with our young core. He's 25, so you add him along to the core of KP, Frank, Willy, Baker and Dotson (all under 25).

4) Say what you want about him, but he worked on his game like a dog and had a breakout campaign last year that came out of nowhere. You have to respect a player like that. Being delegated to the D League I'm sure humbled him. And instead of sulking, he worked on his game and vastly improved. The Hawks GM is on record saying he would match any offer for him, although granted he never expected this type of amount. But they value him and wanted to keep him. They see him as part of their rebuild.

5) This is not the THJ we remembered. He got sent down to the D league to work on his defense. And he did and improved. He's a much better all around player who is more of a 2 way player now. He has polished his game.

6) Melo will be traded, and we need another scorer to absorb the loss. That's exactly what THJ is: a flat our scorer

7) If we get THJ, Lee will be moved for a salary dump. He's at 12 mill per, so that will offset THJ. I love Lee; he was my favorite Knick last year, but at 31, does not fit out timeline.

Again, the question is: do you think that THJ's breakout second half and playoff run last year was legit or a fluke? If it's legit, then the contract is not as outrageous as it appears.

Good post. THJ's money is right in line with what others are getting....he's young, played well, and hopefully trending up. Knicks may have had to throw some more $ at him so ATL would not match. I think most that complain about the $ aren't looking at what the norm is for other players these days.

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:i would have wanted him back but probably at 10 million less over 4 years. shumpert 10 per year. thj 18 per year? if you look at offense defense differential is it that different from each other and i agree i would not want shumpert.

In this market 15 mil is about right. To force Atlanta to let Junior go we had to over pay. So the second look at this deal its not that bad. Crabbe is my comparison... Hes a bum, Junior is a legit scorer.

yes cause Crabbe should be your level set right?

Contracts are the same... Crabbe has been garbage. Junior has a chance to have a breakout year

I'm sure the Blazers management said the same thing about Crabbe when they convinced themselves to give him that deal.