fishmike wrote:

Sinix wrote:This reminds of when the Knicks got Eddy Curry as well. Look at that over 50% FG%!!!!!!!!!! He must be a good productive young player with a high %!!!!

Oops, he's a black hole, doesn't rebound and really not half as good as offense as his #'s might look.

There's your Tim Hardaway. People making the same excuses for God knows what reason.

Curry cost like 3 draft picks and we traded other players to get him. So this is nothing like the Curry trade. NOTHING. You are just spouting at every chance and not saying much

Curry was also more talented that THjr will ever be. The similarities are that:

Both young
Both scorers
Both don't do much else
We're overpaying for both when we don't have the roster or leadership to cover their weaknesses

Typically when you have these guys with holes in their game, you have leadership in and out of the line up that help them work on or mask them.

When you have Knicks level leadership they never get worked on. THjr's weak points will become more glaring and worse.

Why should it be any different?

smackeddog wrote:You're flattering the Knicks by presuming there is some sort of strategy behind their moves!

Get younger, play system ball, emphasize defense, keep future assets. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

Sinix wrote:
Curry was also more talented that THjr will ever be. The similarities are that:

We're talking EDDIE Curry here, not Steph. THjr has more talent in his pinkie than Eddie Curry ever had.

Sinix wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

smackeddog wrote:You're flattering the Knicks by presuming there is some sort of strategy behind their moves!

Get younger, play system ball, emphasize defense, keep future assets. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

2/5 of your starters are THjr and Melo. Those are going to be the leaders of the team. Are you really expecting decent shot selection, team ball movement and an emphasis on defense?

Don't get your hopes up....

THjr showed significant growth as a defensive player, as others have pointed out and argued with stats. Melo may not be here. And we invested in a pass-first PG with #8 pick. So yes, we are getting younger, moving towards system ball, emphasizing defense, and have all our future assets (and may have more once the offseason concludes).

The Knicks may not be as stupid as we think.
Phil Jackson, Mills, Gaines, Horny all have said their focus this summer would be on getting younger, trading Melo (well not all said that), adding guards and wings that can do BOTH defense and offense schemes.

I think Hardaway fits. If we signed this guy for 12$M we would all be happy. Or most would. The fact that we had to overpay, well the reason is quite obvious. We didn't have many other choices, we had to overpay to get Atlanta to think twice about matching.

Even now, I'm pretty sure Atlanta is thinking of dealing Brazemore so they can match this deal. They much prefer the shot creating and making ability of THj than Kent. They regret that Kent deal bad. They can't keep both Kent and THj at this kind of money. I think the Knicks have made a smart calculation here. They knew that Atlanta would struggle to match this offer. Lets say if we offered 60. Atlanta would match without hesitation. Even if it's 10M more than what Atlanta wants to pay. At this kind of deal, it's the only way Atlanta thinks twice about matching.

I'm just worried about Hardaway's head. He may get a huge ego if he does well in NY. A 15 points a night scorer in NY with Melo gone will be treated quite well. I don't want him coming in with that I got to prove I'm a star attitude. He needs to play the same way he did in Atlanta that made him go from a D League guy to a top 15 shooting guard last season.

nyknickzingis wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:95% of Knicks fans thinks the deal was dumb 100% of Atlanta fans agree.

Dion Waiters got 50mm and Hardaway 71

No way to chew it--my bet is fans will have a quick buyers remorse and well be discussing how to get rid of Hardaways contract in 2 years.

Mills overpaid so Atlanta would not match.
He did it after Waiters rejected his offer.
They want a starting level 2 guard that can give 15 points a night to pair with Ntilikina in the backcourt longterm. 25 and younger is what they want.

After Waiters, next best option was Hardaway.

The money does suck. I agree. It's a huge risk. I hope Atlanta matches, but I like we went after a guy that is young on the upswing or upward slope of his career vs going for Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah, Courtney Lee, Brandon Jennings who are on the downward trend of their careers.

Same question I asked others, what was the burning need to do it this offseason? Will this add a few more wins? Will that help our hurt our chances in getting a better pick next year? Why is it that the Knicks always overpay for the table scraps after striking out on the players they really want? We wanted LeBron and ended up with Amare and MElo. This is the type of thinking that cost us 7 years of mediocrity.

Andrew wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Even now, I'm pretty sure Atlanta is thinking of dealing Brazemore so they can match this deal. They much prefer the shot creating and making ability of THj than Kent.

Lost in the $$ numbers is the fact that THJ fills a need for the Knicks that you just mentioned....shot creating.

Still think Melo is going to be moved and that creates a nice spot for him to fill.

THj or Waiters would have given the Knicks a 15 points a night scoring threat, something important with Melo on his way out.

Like I said a few times, Phil Jackson made this clear about this summer. He, Gaines, Mills all were looking for athletic wings and guards who could defend.

Ntilikina - Guard that is an above average athlete who can defend
Dotson - Wing. NBA level athlete who can shoot the 3, defend.
Hardaway Jr - Wing. Starting level 2 guard who can create his own shot, shoot the ball and get into some explosive scoring stretches

Without even trading Melo yet, the Knicks suddenly would have 3 athletic players like Ntili, Dotson and THj to put around KP/Willy. Not bad in my opinion. With Hardaway's abilty to create off the dribble and break down a defense, the pressure is less on Framk to create. Frank just has to bring the ball up, make the right pass and spot up for 3 or look to get a open look in the offense. Dotson could even get minutes as he's a capable 3nD and fill the wings fast guy.

Hernangomez 22
Porzingis 21
Dotson 23
Hardaway 24
Ntilikina 18

Young at all 5 positions, athletic at 4 out of 5 positions. 4 out of 5 positions can spread the floor. It's not a bad lineup for a rebuild team that wants to run, gun and hustle back on D.

stanleybostitch wrote:

Sinix wrote:

stanleybostitch wrote:

smackeddog wrote:You're flattering the Knicks by presuming there is some sort of strategy behind their moves!

Get younger, play system ball, emphasize defense, keep future assets. Sounds like a good strategy to me.

2/5 of your starters are THjr and Melo. Those are going to be the leaders of the team. Are you really expecting decent shot selection, team ball movement and an emphasis on defense?

Don't get your hopes up....

THjr showed significant growth as a defensive player, as others have pointed out and argued with stats. Melo may not be here. And we invested in a pass-first PG with #8 pick. So yes, we are getting younger, moving towards system ball, emphasizing defense, and have all our future assets (and may have more once the offseason concludes).

I doubt Melo is going. Melo loved THjr and was pissed when he was traded away. This move appeases Melo just like firing Phil did as well.

There's no system ball with these guys. Melo and THjr play iso ball. They don't emphasize passing or rebounding. Sad to say but KP was starting to develop an iso ball mentality too.

You might think we have a young core that's about to grow together. I see a poisoned well that isn't going to work out because the culture and leadership is a negative with the Knicks.

Who is leading the ball movement? Frank Nilitinka or however you spell his name at 18 years old? Is 18 year old Frank going to tell Melo or TH or KP not to hold the ball? Melo will get him traded if that happens.