CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity has declined big time and continues to do so. More people just need to become aware of what Melo is doing behind the scenes to undermine the Knicks front office.

Your average fan that doesn't read forums doesn't really understand that Melo has been making moves over the past couple years that have been Melo before the Knicks while Phil is trying to make moves that is Knicks before Melo.

Mostly your average NBA fan only sees 20-30 points Melo usually puts up and decides because of that he can't be the problem, because he's the only one putting up production like that. Then they look at all the losses, and while that does hurt Melo a bit, it puts the attention on management more.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Dude is getting boo'ed at MSG. When he holds the ball.

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

He sold his soul for those 54 wins. What happened the year after? He traded a first rounder for Bargnani. You guys conveniently forget these things. You forget he go Kidd who retired the next season. Where was the sustained winning.

Dagger wrote:Where's the option to send melo down to the d-league where he can learn defense and team play?

but if we traded for love, we would have to send him there as well right?

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Metric shows that team wasn't as good as it's win total said. We heard it going into the playoffs that season and some dismissed the idea. Then we got bounced off early which gave it legitimacy.

Then we got another chance next season to show the 54 wins weren't a fluke. How'd we do there?

Knicks got lucky and wrongly assumed they were that good. That season was probably the worst thing that happened to the Knicks because it justified constantly targeting building a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make it past the first round. This is limbo or purgatory. It keeps idiot fans quiet but the longer terms fans have to wait longer and longer for a team to be built long lasting with draft picks and young talent.

It was a 2 to 3 yrs win now roster, he also signed short term contracts with the ability to have cap space after Tyson, melo, amre, jr's contract would expire in 2014, and phil took away 8 million of the cap space by adding calderon, but still had 30 mill to wrk with.

So basically you are building Grumweld up for making win now moves on a team that wasn't ready to win by any stretch of the imagination. Real great job there.

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Yet if he waited one year to let Billups, Melo, Amare play out. Then let Billups walk and after 2 years of data come to the conclusion that Amare was damaged goods and amnestied him. He could have freed up 40mil to build around Carmelo Anthony. With young/in prime players that would have lasted for longer then one season.

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Metric shows that team wasn't as good as it's win total said. We heard it going into the playoffs that season and some dismissed the idea. Then we got bounced off early which gave it legitimacy.

Then we got another chance next season to show the 54 wins weren't a fluke. How'd we do there?

Knicks got lucky and wrongly assumed they were that good. That season was probably the worst thing that happened to the Knicks because it justified constantly targeting building a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make it past the first round. This is limbo or purgatory. It keeps idiot fans quiet but the longer terms fans have to wait longer and longer for a team to be built long lasting with draft picks and young talent.

It was a 2 to 3 yrs win now roster, he also signed short term contracts with the ability to have cap space after Tyson, melo, amre, jr's contract would expire in 2014, and phil took away 8 million of the cap space by adding calderon, but still had 30 mill to wrk with.

It wasn't a 2-3 win now roster because they won 37 games the next year. They had no draft pick and no cap space. So the same team would have went out on the floor the next year and won 30+ games again(missing out on KP). Melo even had knee issues that year and had to have surgery. Then who do we sign with the cap space? Jimmy Butler?

Sinix wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Sinix wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be a win for Melo and fail for Phil. The contract, the public criticism of Melo's play, all hampered any ability the Knicks had to get something for him. Melo holds the cards. It would have been hard to make this end with the Knicks getting anything positive from it. Phil made it harder.

there is one card he no longer holds. The support of NYC. The crowds and fans have been kind to him over the years. That will quickly change if/when fans decide to turn their ire in his direction. Melo is a guy who historically needs to be wanted to courted. He needs to be needed. If you think he guts out a couple years with the boos raining down on him you have no followed his career. We will see how it plays out.

He is wanted by his teammates. I don't see fans turning their ire on him. Phil didn't get a very good response after his presser. Fire Phil chants were happening at the Barkley Center not trade Melo. I don't think Phil has the juice to turn NYC against Melo.

I do think there is a good chance that he leaves. I just think he will get his money and the Knicks will get little or nothing out of his leaving in terms of the cap or an asset coming back.

Melo's popularity with his teammates is overblown. He's clearly likable, he clearly is part of he league's fraternity and I believe the best FA any team of his has ever attracted is Kenyon Marten and that was after NJ didnt want to max him.

Every fan except JRod understands what is happening here. Teams that are focused on developing youth and team play dont keep vets who dont defend and hold the ball. You dont think he will be booed at the garden? He started hearing it last year... Phil may not be popular but once the games start fans call it like they see it.

The Knicks have not had cap space during his tenure in NY. The one time they did they got Rolo, DWill, Afflalo. Phil stated that he wanted to bring in a few players that off season. He brought in two starters. You can't do that and sign a max guy. The money hasn't been there. The Knicks have been poorly managed both in terms of draft assets and salary cap. That is on management.

Grunwald had zero cap space and draft picks, yet manage to build a 54 win team in 2 seasons

Metric shows that team wasn't as good as it's win total said. We heard it going into the playoffs that season and some dismissed the idea. Then we got bounced off early which gave it legitimacy.

Then we got another chance next season to show the 54 wins weren't a fluke. How'd we do there?

Knicks got lucky and wrongly assumed they were that good. That season was probably the worst thing that happened to the Knicks because it justified constantly targeting building a team that is good enough to make the playoffs but not good enough to make it past the first round. This is limbo or purgatory. It keeps idiot fans quiet but the longer terms fans have to wait longer and longer for a team to be built long lasting with draft picks and young talent.

It was a 2 to 3 yrs win now roster, he also signed short term contracts with the ability to have cap space after Tyson, melo, amre, jr's contract would expire in 2014, and phil took away 8 million of the cap space by adding calderon, but still had 30 mill to wrk with.

So basically you are building Grumweld up for making win now moves on a team that wasn't ready to win by any stretch of the imagination. Real great job there.