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This Porzingis controversy is being misrepresented.
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colorfl1
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6/26/2017  11:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2017  11:58 AM
There is a real problem with NY media. They want to create controversy by feeding the public reactive and slanted conjecture.
It tends to alienate both factions into positions can't easily be repaired in any disagreement.

Its evident to any intelligent person that Porzingis was never going to get permission to play for team Latvia -- a dream he has had for many years. So his brother and agents told him to skip the year end meeting and not be in direct contact so he can go play for the Latvian national team. His agents crafted a whispering campaign that Porzingis is entitled to act this way because the team's playing philosophy was erratically executed and because he was often overlooked on offence. However, it is mostly a bs way of distracting the media and making it about the GM.
Phil Jackson has tried to be in touch with him throughout the off season but his agents don't let him talk directly to team management -- and they won't until Porzingis finishes his tournament with the Latvian team.
What is sad about this is that Porzingis is a good kid who is getting ugly advise -- and is throwing the GM under the bus to fulfill his dreams of winning for Latvia.
Phil Jackson would be reckless not to find out Porzingis's worth in the open market -- and see if someone is dumb enough to meet his "Herschel Walker deal" terms.
The media gets more readers and listeners stirring drama -- so they are running this story into the ground.
This why everyone says you can never rebuild in NY -- because the Media will never let you see it through to completion.
Now hopefully Phil Jackson sent a message to Porzingis's agents by lowering his leverage on the team. Porzingis will come back to the Knicks will an edge wanting to prove that playing for Latvia did not take extra wear on his body.

The Knicks are drafting kids that can play system basketball and are not just AAU style players.
The program at Westchester is young -- the rookies drafted or signed for this are all too young to set the momentum for the team's play and new identity. Still, at the end of last season we all witnessed how the young players are being taught to play selfless team basketball and with aggressive D.

Everyone needs to calm down... this team identity has not matured yet -- Porzingis is here to stay for a long long time.

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Welpee
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6/26/2017  12:02 PM
Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).
Nalod
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6/26/2017  12:11 PM
Its a good take and could be very much true. "Rumor" is KP did what he did in protest to Phils god awful media blitz of shaming his mentor Melo.
Cuban's take on international play:http://www.espn.com/dallas/nba/story/_/id/7497025/dallas-mavericks-owner-mark-cuban-not-fan-international-games-nba-players

Cuban and Dirk had not always seen eye to eye on international play. Its an interesting perspective. It will be even more so if KP gets hurt. It can happen playing ping pong in the basement, but when its in the offseaon it matters. Fans will blast phil for not trading him. Fans would have been ok with the rumored high price Phil was asking, but at the end of the day it was not valid.
PHil is an arrogant SOB and that makes him an easy mark for media and working folk who see him as stealing money.

That KP can't meet with his coaches, GM and team president because they might ask him to not play? He gets pass because he can say "Well, they never told me not to"?
KP is a $100 million dollar property of the club. This is not a light subject and quite frankly part of me is ok with the kid playing and if hell bent on it could have worked something out.
Lets also be real, KP is culpable for Longstreet being fired as he didn't fully be upfront about his plans. You don't want to communicate the off season plan then why should team provide a coach for the summer?
If KP knows his body best and wants no team input, thats on him. Results will tell the full tale.

colorfl1
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6/26/2017  12:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2017  12:14 PM
Teams tend to strongly pressure players not to participate wherever there is reasonable injury concern.
In Porzingis case -- he has not filled out his body so the added minutes and lack of time to recover after a long season is a serous concern for the team.
Now -- I don't think a team will have concerns once his body fills out when he turns 26 -- but right now his legs and feet are a higher risk for injury in physical contests when he does not get proper recovery time.
EnySpree
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6/26/2017  12:12 PM
Welpee wrote:Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).

They don't have to get permission but thet are supposed to have communication with the club to determine the best interest.

Kristaps camp screwed this up..... Kristaps I believe is all about basketball. His brothers sand the rest of the management firm are trying to establish power for his player. That's today's game. Lebrin started that with his team and how they took over the nba with the miami signing. Thing is you do stuff behind the scene not open for the media to eat up. Like you go to the exit meeting, that's it... disguss whatever you want but be there. You don't sic the media on the ball club because you didn't get what you want. Then you don't exile yourself and make it seem like you are being defiant when you aren't. Then you don't negociate a ESPN special to keep these flames going. It's just insane stuff. It hurts more than Phil and the Knicks because I dunno about you, I get beat up every day from people cuz thet know I'm a Knicks fan. If I wear Knicks gear some random jacks always wants to start up a debate. Its a big mess... This mess isn't Phil Jackson's fault. It started with KP and the exit meeting

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Sinix
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6/26/2017  12:26 PM
Welpee wrote:Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).

KP doesn't need permission for a lot of things that would lower his stock. Let's say he engaged in shady behavior, going to night clubs constantly, mixing with bad women ect.... none of that is necessarily things you need permission for but it lowers the value of a guy.

nixluva
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6/26/2017  12:40 PM
I tend to agree. KP wanted to be free to do what he wanted this offseason and it seems the calculation was that they keep KP away from Phil and Jeff so he could have the freedom to play for Latvia and not be actually disobeying any orders. I also think this is a power play by Janis and ASM Sports which in the end is not going to work. KP is still 2 yrs away from any chance at freedom. He's going to have to come back and fall in line and I expect that he will.

The Media is a different story. Woj, Isola and Berman to name a few keep trying to push this notion that KP doesn't want to play in the Triangle which is pure nonsense since KP said he likes the Triangle and wants more of it. The media just keeps pushing the narrative that KP is against the Triangle and that Phil hates 3's and is forcing players to run an offense they don't like.

Woj
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/kristaps-porzingis-unhappy-phil-jackson-knicks-015636997.html

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPN’s Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis isn’t alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organization’s summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the team’s suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, there’s an open rebellion to the triangle – for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that its implementation has burdened upon everyone.

It isn’t only Jackson’s laborious organizational emails about the triangle – demands of emphasis on schooling players on the reverse pivot move, or the proper passing techniques – but his increasing insistence on the coaching staff and players that the obsolete offense become fully functional for the 2017-18 season.

Berman
http://nypost.com/2017/06/24/kristaps-porzingis-still-a-knick-but-no-one-knows-for-how-long/

it may be better to explore trade options sooner rather than later if Jackson senses Porzingis is disgruntled with the rebuilding plan and movement toward the triangle offense.

Isola
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/kristaps-porzingis-blows-exit-meeting-phil-jackson-article-1.3057180?cid=bitly&utm_content=bufferbc275&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter

And in an effort to mold Porzingis into a post player better fit for the triangle, Jackson said he wants fewer 3-pointers.

The embattled team president even called Porzingis’ treys, “A cheap way to score.” Porzingis averaged 4.8 3-point attempts per game this season, up considerably from his rookie campaign.

But notice what Phil actually said about KP taking 3's:

“He had a game he didn’t take a three, which I told him that was important,” the team president said. “If it’s not there you don’t have to take a three. That’s sometimes just a cheap way to score points or you get anxious to score points. He had a shorter delivery on his shot. He learned some post-up things that were good.”

THIS IS WHAT KP ACTUALLY SAID ABOUT THE TRIANGLE:

Finally, someone agrees with Phil Jackson.

New York Knicks sophomore sensation Kristaps Porzingis is thrilled that the Knicks pivoting back to the triangle offense - the singular muse of Jackson's illustrious coaching career.

"I like the triangle," Porzingis told Al Iannazzone of Newsday. "My first season, the whole first season we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everybody believes in it and everybody executes it the right way."

The Knicks have been invariably trying to implement the triangle offense ever since Jackson took over as team president, but it largely resulted in nothing more than inefficient possessions and pushback from players. Instead, the team mostly relies on a steady diet of pick-and-rolls and isolations.

Porzingis hopes they can pick up the scheme as yet another lost Knicks season runs its course.

"We’re starting to learn it now the way we should (and) we should have been playing from the beginning of the season. So we’re a little behind. But every game we’re getting a little better. Hopefully, I don’t know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it."


https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1244234-porzingis-likes-the-triangle-but-everyone-needs-to-buy-in
Welpee
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6/26/2017  2:19 PM
Sinix wrote:
Welpee wrote:Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).

KP doesn't need permission for a lot of things that would lower his stock. Let's say he engaged in shady behavior, going to night clubs constantly, mixing with bad women ect.... none of that is necessarily things you need permission for but it lowers the value of a guy.

No doubt. Just questioning the theory that he wasn't communicating with the Knicks to avoiding being denied permission to play with the national team. Doesn't seem logical to me.
Knixkik
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6/26/2017  2:34 PM
The fact is i feel like KP skipping the interview was to let Dolan know that he doesn't approve of Phil. However, what is being overblown is he is planning an exit strategy. His contract goes a year beyond Phil if he signed the QO. He knows he will outlive Phil here. Rebuilding won't bother KP, as long as the team is making progress. It's the flip flopping that is the problem. KP's instagram says "knick for life." He is probably one of the only players in the league with a title like that. Point is, he is doing things now that he feels will help better this situation long-term, and i think he underestimated Phil's stubbornness to dig in his heels. KP will retract a little bit, we are already seeing it to an extent. He will just have to play nice until Phil expires. But no doubt in my mind KP figures to be a Knick for the long haul, he just wants the path to be smoother.
newyorknewyork
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6/26/2017  3:15 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/26/2017  3:16 PM
nixluva wrote:I tend to agree. KP wanted to be free to do what he wanted this offseason and it seems the calculation was that they keep KP away from Phil and Jeff so he could have the freedom to play for Latvia and not be actually disobeying any orders. I also think this is a power play by Janis and ASM Sports which in the end is not going to work. KP is still 2 yrs away from any chance at freedom. He's going to have to come back and fall in line and I expect that he will.

The Media is a different story. Woj, Isola and Berman to name a few keep trying to push this notion that KP doesn't want to play in the Triangle which is pure nonsense since KP said he likes the Triangle and wants more of it. The media just keeps pushing the narrative that KP is against the Triangle and that Phil hates 3's and is forcing players to run an offense they don't like.

Woj
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/kristaps-porzingis-unhappy-phil-jackson-knicks-015636997.html

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPN’s Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis isn’t alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organization’s summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the team’s suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, there’s an open rebellion to the triangle – for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that its implementation has burdened upon everyone.

It isn’t only Jackson’s laborious organizational emails about the triangle – demands of emphasis on schooling players on the reverse pivot move, or the proper passing techniques – but his increasing insistence on the coaching staff and players that the obsolete offense become fully functional for the 2017-18 season.

Berman
http://nypost.com/2017/06/24/kristaps-porzingis-still-a-knick-but-no-one-knows-for-how-long/

it may be better to explore trade options sooner rather than later if Jackson senses Porzingis is disgruntled with the rebuilding plan and movement toward the triangle offense.

Isola
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/kristaps-porzingis-blows-exit-meeting-phil-jackson-article-1.3057180?cid=bitly&utm_content=bufferbc275&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter

And in an effort to mold Porzingis into a post player better fit for the triangle, Jackson said he wants fewer 3-pointers.

The embattled team president even called Porzingis’ treys, “A cheap way to score.” Porzingis averaged 4.8 3-point attempts per game this season, up considerably from his rookie campaign.

But notice what Phil actually said about KP taking 3's:

“He had a game he didn’t take a three, which I told him that was important,” the team president said. “If it’s not there you don’t have to take a three. That’s sometimes just a cheap way to score points or you get anxious to score points. He had a shorter delivery on his shot. He learned some post-up things that were good.”

THIS IS WHAT KP ACTUALLY SAID ABOUT THE TRIANGLE:

Finally, someone agrees with Phil Jackson.

New York Knicks sophomore sensation Kristaps Porzingis is thrilled that the Knicks pivoting back to the triangle offense - the singular muse of Jackson's illustrious coaching career.

"I like the triangle," Porzingis told Al Iannazzone of Newsday. "My first season, the whole first season we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everybody believes in it and everybody executes it the right way."

The Knicks have been invariably trying to implement the triangle offense ever since Jackson took over as team president, but it largely resulted in nothing more than inefficient possessions and pushback from players. Instead, the team mostly relies on a steady diet of pick-and-rolls and isolations.

Porzingis hopes they can pick up the scheme as yet another lost Knicks season runs its course.

"We’re starting to learn it now the way we should (and) we should have been playing from the beginning of the season. So we’re a little behind. But every game we’re getting a little better. Hopefully, I don’t know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it."


https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1244234-porzingis-likes-the-triangle-but-everyone-needs-to-buy-in

Willy from his own words stated that he is going to work on his 3pt shot and look to slim down some. Frank, Dotson, Artis, Kornet are all 3 point shooters that Phil has targeted. But also bring length for defensive principals.

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newyorknewyork
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6/26/2017  3:19 PM
After reading the quote from KP from the other thread. The argument that Colorfly1 has presented makes the most sense.
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Gudris
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6/26/2017  5:42 PM
Welpee wrote:Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).

Bungy jumping is not dangerous :P(i did work in this field couple years )

Nalod
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6/26/2017  6:10 PM
What we read and what some of us are guessing at are not exactly in line.
We don't know the nature of KP or his brother and what the deal is. Comparing it to Lebron makes no sense. Very different.

KP seemingly has only made one mistake and Phil is not all that reactive. media, Isola, and phil haters seemed to add much to the story with making stuff up that make it worse.
Players coming here? Its not a winning situation, but that's half the NBA. Does a player like Aldridge have choices and if so, can maneuver his way to a winning team? Of course he does. David West gave up a lot of money to go win. Mid level players looking to get paid are coming, but if you sign up for the triangle, yess the man over and over, then go off on your own way well then life will be hell.
There is pressure in NY and Phil just don't care. If you win, like pop, riles and Auerbach you get away with a lot. When you don't, and its NY, media will paint you greedy, arrogant, etc. Some of you just project he is here for the money only and that Dolan needs to step in and..........

Imagine, saying "Dolan needs to step in and...." That's silly.
Facts are Phil is not winning but we are building a foundation and its not going very smooth. Not stupid like Orlando's or other teams that keep tripping, but I give Phil a lot of rope because this was a tear down with little assets to rebuild off of.

BigRedDog
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6/26/2017  6:14 PM
Sinix wrote:
Welpee wrote:Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).

KP doesn't need permission for a lot of things that would lower his stock. Let's say he engaged in shady behavior, going to night clubs constantly, mixing with bad women ect.... none of that is necessarily things you need permission for but it lowers the value of a guy.

WTF are you smoking???

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
HofstraBBall
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6/26/2017  7:07 PM
KP will be fine. Has to keep his head down and keep improving and working on his game. Hoping he bulks up and works on inside game. Mute out all the New York wannabee hate. Which most media/fans are.
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GoNyGoNyGo
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6/27/2017  9:40 AM
nixluva wrote:I tend to agree. KP wanted to be free to do what he wanted this offseason and it seems the calculation was that they keep KP away from Phil and Jeff so he could have the freedom to play for Latvia and not be actually disobeying any orders. I also think this is a power play by Janis and ASM Sports which in the end is not going to work. KP is still 2 yrs away from any chance at freedom. He's going to have to come back and fall in line and I expect that he will.

The Media is a different story. Woj, Isola and Berman to name a few keep trying to push this notion that KP doesn't want to play in the Triangle which is pure nonsense since KP said he likes the Triangle and wants more of it. The media just keeps pushing the narrative that KP is against the Triangle and that Phil hates 3's and is forcing players to run an offense they don't like.

Woj
https://sports.yahoo.com/news/kristaps-porzingis-unhappy-phil-jackson-knicks-015636997.html

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPN’s Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.

Porzingis isn’t alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organization’s summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the team’s suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, there’s an open rebellion to the triangle – for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that its implementation has burdened upon everyone.

It isn’t only Jackson’s laborious organizational emails about the triangle – demands of emphasis on schooling players on the reverse pivot move, or the proper passing techniques – but his increasing insistence on the coaching staff and players that the obsolete offense become fully functional for the 2017-18 season.

Berman
http://nypost.com/2017/06/24/kristaps-porzingis-still-a-knick-but-no-one-knows-for-how-long/

it may be better to explore trade options sooner rather than later if Jackson senses Porzingis is disgruntled with the rebuilding plan and movement toward the triangle offense.

Isola
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/kristaps-porzingis-blows-exit-meeting-phil-jackson-article-1.3057180?cid=bitly&utm_content=bufferbc275&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter

And in an effort to mold Porzingis into a post player better fit for the triangle, Jackson said he wants fewer 3-pointers.

The embattled team president even called Porzingis’ treys, “A cheap way to score.” Porzingis averaged 4.8 3-point attempts per game this season, up considerably from his rookie campaign.

But notice what Phil actually said about KP taking 3's:

“He had a game he didn’t take a three, which I told him that was important,” the team president said. “If it’s not there you don’t have to take a three. That’s sometimes just a cheap way to score points or you get anxious to score points. He had a shorter delivery on his shot. He learned some post-up things that were good.”

THIS IS WHAT KP ACTUALLY SAID ABOUT THE TRIANGLE:

Finally, someone agrees with Phil Jackson.

New York Knicks sophomore sensation Kristaps Porzingis is thrilled that the Knicks pivoting back to the triangle offense - the singular muse of Jackson's illustrious coaching career.

"I like the triangle," Porzingis told Al Iannazzone of Newsday. "My first season, the whole first season we played nothing but the triangle so I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everybody believes in it and everybody executes it the right way."

The Knicks have been invariably trying to implement the triangle offense ever since Jackson took over as team president, but it largely resulted in nothing more than inefficient possessions and pushback from players. Instead, the team mostly relies on a steady diet of pick-and-rolls and isolations.

Porzingis hopes they can pick up the scheme as yet another lost Knicks season runs its course.

"We’re starting to learn it now the way we should (and) we should have been playing from the beginning of the season. So we’re a little behind. But every game we’re getting a little better. Hopefully, I don’t know when, we can start using it properly and making some impact playing it."


https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1244234-porzingis-likes-the-triangle-but-everyone-needs-to-buy-in

Isola is very anti-Knick. Hates Dolan and now Phil. I am not a fan of his. Always negative.
Cartman718
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6/27/2017  9:59 AM
bleacher report is ranking us as the last resort destination in the nba. phil/melo need to talk and come to an agreement.
Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
NYKBocker
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6/27/2017  10:14 AM
Welpee wrote:Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).
Knicks pretty much told him that he cannot play for Latvia last year.
Welpee
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6/27/2017  10:19 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
Welpee wrote:Does he need "permission" to play for his national team? Once the season is over I thought players could pretty much do whatever they want as long as it isn't deemed dangerous (i.e. water surfing, bungee jumping, motorcycle riding, etc.).
Knicks pretty much told him that he cannot play for Latvia last year.
I think they ASKED him not to play and as a rookie I get that he would honor their wishes and stay in the states and work out. But if he decided he wanted to play what could the Knicks do? I don't think they could fine him, suspend him or void his contract.
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6/27/2017  10:25 AM
Cartman718 wrote:bleacher report is ranking us as the last resort destination in the nba. phil/melo need to talk and come to an agreement.

Do they state why?
Media crush is beyond knicks control. They do try to keep things in house and while its a weird closed existance, I do understand why they try.
Guys like Isola have a very big presence and people are influenced by his opinions. Negativity sells. Its always been this way.
Not to say the knicks do themselves any favor and have not been run well for many years. Part of the reason phil was bought in was he don't care, had the coach cred, has high self esteem and will see a long term plan thru.
The selling that he is a rookie GM and arrogant taking YOUR MONEY is perpetuated to the point readers get conditioned to hate him and while no valid alternative concept can offered, many would love to see him fired thinking the future would be better.

I've said this before, look how many talented people we have hired and ruined? We kill the spirit of coaches.

Kudos to MDA who now won his second coach of the year.

Blame is essential. NY media is the same as elsewhere but more intense.

This Porzingis controversy is being misrepresented.

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