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How to bring Carter to NY....
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s3231
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8/19/2004  11:42 AM
I was pretty bored so I decided to try and land a 3 team trade that would bring us Vince. Someone may have posted something similar to this awhile ago, but I thought I'd give it a shot.

New York Trades: SF Tim Thomas
C Nazr Mohammed

New York Receives: SF Vince Carter
PG Howard Eisley (yea I know but it was the only way I could get this trade to work)


Toronto Trades: SF Vince Carter
F Jerome Moiso

Toronto Receives: SF Shawn Marion
C Jake Voskuhl

Phoenix Trades: SF Shawn Marion
C Jake Voskuhl
PG Howard Eisley

Phoenix Receives: SF Tim Thomas
C Nazr Mohammed
F Jerome Moiso


We do this trade obviously to get Vince. We increase our payroll even more but we add another star to run the floor with Stephon. After this trade we could either start Kurt at Center to get his value up even more or we could sign a free agent like Keon Clark. Toronto does this trade because they are sick of hearing Vince whining and they get a very nice replacement in Marion along with a decent Center in Voskuhl. Phoenix does this trade to save even more money so that they can make big players in the free agent market in a couple of years. Moiso has an expiring contract and Tim and Nazr will have expiring contracts next year. Tim is a decent replacement for Shawn and Nazr is a nice and young athletic C that can run the floor with the rest of the team. Draft picks might have to be involved in a trade like this but I would think that this deal benefits everyone and could be done without us giving up a first rounder. Any opinions?
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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BRIGGS
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8/19/2004  11:49 AM
were small as it is. i think after acquiring JC, we need to movve in different direction. i would also take back eisley if they threw in lampe and barbosa for KT:>)
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TMS
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8/19/2004  11:49 AM
i think it's not out of the question actually...but you might have to throw PHO a draft pick from NY for them to make that trade too...does it all work under the cap?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
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8/19/2004  11:51 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

were small as it is. i think after acquiring JC, we need to movve in different direction. i would also take back eisley if they threw in lampe and barbosa for KT:>)



Yea I was trying to get Lampe to be included in the deal but financially it was a pain to do without us ripping off the other teams so I just left this trade as it is.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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8/19/2004  11:54 AM
Posted by TMS:

i think it's not out of the question actually...but you might have to throw PHO a draft pick from NY for them to make that trade too...does it all work under the cap?




Yea it all works under the cap. The trade checker was down so I couldn't use it but the salaries were very close so I think it would work. I was also thinking that we might have to give Phoenix a draft pick but I'd try to get this deal done at all costs before throwing in a pick.

[Edited by - s3231 on 08/19/2004 11:56:05]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TMS
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8/19/2004  11:58 AM
C - KT / Baker
PF - Sweetney / JYD
SF - Carter / Penny / Shandon
SG - Houston / Crawford
PG - Marbury / Eisley / Moochie
IR - Ariza

it's not that bad...i'd make that trade if it were on the table...the frontcourt will be an issue whether Nazr is here or not...you can try & sign Keon Clark for the LLE & fill the 3rd C spot that way...

& even if Vince & Allan get hurt, then you're looking at high lottery next year, & a season of getting Sweetney & Ariza some serious growth & development...i like it either way.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
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8/19/2004  12:01 PM
Yea I started to think that this trade would hurt our frontcourt a lot but then I remembered that Kurt would still be on our team and he has played pretty well at the Center position in the past. We lose height but we can sign Clark if we have to. If not, Kurt can do a decent job at C and Sweetney gets the start at PF.

[Edited by - s3231 on 08/19/2004 12:02:20]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
MaTT4281
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8/19/2004  12:01 PM
Well...this is actually one of the better VC trades I have seen.


But, I just want to know why everyone thinks we need him. I'm excited about the current team we have, and want to see how they play when healthy and have been through atleast a training camp together.
I'm just concerned about getting VC for a couple reasons. His health is an issue. Atleast last year he was able to play 73 games, so it's not that big of an issue for me.
I like the fact that TT is about 4 inches taller than VC, and would really only like to get him if we could move out Allan.
I also don't know if there would be any issues over the ball or amount of shots. Plus we may be interrupting any chemistry we already have.

Yea it all works under the cap. The trade checker was down so I couldn't use it but the salaries were very close so I think it would work. I was also thinking that we might have to give Phoenix a draft pick but I'd try to get this deal done at all costs before throwing in a pick.

And ya, the trade did work on real gm.
s3231
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8/19/2004  12:04 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

Well...this is actually one of the better VC trades I have seen.


But, I just want to know why everyone thinks we need him. I'm excited about the current team we have, and want to see how they play when healthy and have been through atleast a training camp together.
I'm just concerned about getting VC for a couple reasons. His health is an issue. Atleast last year he was able to play 73 games, so it's not that big of an issue for me.
I like the fact that TT is about 4 inches taller than VC, and would really only like to get him if we could move out Allan.
I also don't know if there would be any issues over the ball or amount of shots. Plus we may be interrupting any chemistry we already have.

Yea it all works under the cap. The trade checker was down so I couldn't use it but the salaries were very close so I think it would work. I was also thinking that we might have to give Phoenix a draft pick but I'd try to get this deal done at all costs before throwing in a pick.

And ya, the trade did work on real gm.






I don't think we need Vince, but I would love to have him for the right deal. When healthy he is a top 10 player in the league and he can do it all. He can score, defend, pass the ball. I don't see how many teams would be able to stop Marbury, Houston, and Vince.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Solace
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8/19/2004  12:17 PM
There's no way in the world Phoenix does this trade. Sorry, not without some draft picks or something. Shawn Marion is an olympian. A package of Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed netted no better than Keith Van Horn. Marion is definitely considerably ahead of Van Horn. Voshkull is a piece to their team, as well, and Nazr isn't *that* much better than Jake. I know Phoenix needs size, but can we really expect them to do this? Another issue is returning Howard Eisley to NY. Do you really want to hear the fans bitching about him incessantly all day long all the time? I thought we grew tired of that. That's why I'm against it.

However, I would like to entertain it. We most certainly need to get some size in return from Phoenix for this to work. So...

if we made it that Phoenix gets Kurt, Nazr, Tim Thomas, and two future picks, while we get Lampe, Vince & fluff, it might make sense.
...
TMS
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8/19/2004  12:26 PM
it all depends on what PHO wants...do they want to get back a superstar player for Shawn Marion, or is cap space more important for them in the long run? they DID trade us Stephon Marbury for picks & cap room, didn't they? maybe it's not that much of a stretch for them to do it again, especially now that they've severely overpaid for Steve Nash & have no more need to keep Marion after signing Quentin Richardson to a longterm deal as well...a deal like this could free up enough cap for them to make Amare Stoudamire a max offer when he's eligible for free agency & also hold onto Lampe as well, since they both become FA's the same year...but definitely, i think it's fair to say you would HAVE to include a draft pick or 2 going back to PHO from NY to make them do that deal.
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Bonn1997
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8/19/2004  12:42 PM
I don't think Vince is the kind of player the team needs. I would get him only to trade him.
I'd rather do a 3 team deal where Vince and Nazy are sent to N.O., Sweetney and Tim Thomas are sent to Toronto, we take one bad contract from each team (maybe Jamal Mashburn's 3 years $30 mil and Alvin Williams), and we get Jamal Magloire. Obviously more players would have to be involved to make the salaries work. I think N.O. might do the deal because even with Magloire, they'll struggle to make the playoffs in the west and may end up just being a lottery team paying Mashburn $30 mil to retire. Plus Vince is a huge ticket draw. So, financially, it's probably a great deal for N.O. For Toronto, I don't think they're going to get a star for Vince Carter. It looks like they can't even get Ray Allen for him. TT would become their best SF and Sweetney gives them depth in the front court, which they really need, and obviously has a nice upside. As for us, we get a good young center who I think is worth giving up Sweetney and TT and Nazy for and taking back bad contracts for.

This trade might have more of a chance of going through about 20 games into the season if the Raptors get off to a bad start (which would surprise few people) and if N.O. is a below .500 lottery team in the west (they were only like 42-40 I think in the east).

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/19/2004 13:26:51]
s3231
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8/19/2004  12:51 PM
Posted by Solace:

There's no way in the world Phoenix does this trade. Sorry, not without some draft picks or something. Shawn Marion is an olympian. A package of Tim Thomas and Nazr Mohammed netted no better than Keith Van Horn. Marion is definitely considerably ahead of Van Horn. Voshkull is a piece to their team, as well, and Nazr isn't *that* much better than Jake. I know Phoenix needs size, but can we really expect them to do this? Another issue is returning Howard Eisley to NY. Do you really want to hear the fans bitching about him incessantly all day long all the time? I thought we grew tired of that. That's why I'm against it.

However, I would like to entertain it. We most certainly need to get some size in return from Phoenix for this to work. So...

if we made it that Phoenix gets Kurt, Nazr, Tim Thomas, and two future picks, while we get Lampe, Vince & fluff, it might make sense.






I agree that we would probably have to end up including picks. But its really not that bad of a trade. Nazr might not be that much better than Jake but I really think he is a better fit for that team. If Marion is really on the trading block then I would think that they would definitely consider doing a trade like this. As TMS said it really depends on what the Suns want. When I was doing this trade I was thinking that Phoenix might love to have some more cap space to make a run at a very good big man. There aren't that many good big men available right now, with Dampier gone the Suns don't really have that many centers to choose from so I figured they would like to have some more cap space to take another shot at a big man in a year or 2.

[Edited by - s3231 on 08/19/2004 12:52:15]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Solace
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8/19/2004  12:56 PM
True. I see what you're saying about the cap space. I didn't mean to sound harsh toward your idea. From everything I've read, though, they're only trading Marion if they get a center who can help them now. Unless they want to get far enough under the cap to make a run at Yao, I'm not sure what other center they'd expect to get via FA.
...
s3231
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8/19/2004  12:59 PM
Posted by Solace:

True. I see what you're saying about the cap space. I didn't mean to sound harsh toward your idea. From everything I've read, though, they're only trading Marion if they get a center who can help them now. Unless they want to get far enough under the cap to make a run at Yao, I'm not sure what other center they'd expect to get via FA.






No problem, I wasn't and I'm still not sure if the Suns would accept a trade like this, but I think it has a shot. Yea most articles are basically saying they want a good Center now but realistically there is no one available. If they cannot get a good big man then this trade might be a good alternative.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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8/19/2004  1:01 PM
Maybe I'll go to the realgm and espn boards to see what Raptors and Suns fans would think about a trade like this. I'm prepared to take some bashing
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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