newyorknewyork wrote:With the work and due diligence that this front office has put in towards this draft. Which seems like the perfect draft to be this thorough in. I hope that this becomes the cuture they establish year after year come draft time. I feel confident that we are going to come out of this draft with something good.

Phil deserves credit.

knicks1248 wrote:

reub wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:With the work and due diligence that this front office has put in towards this draft. Which seems like the perfect draft to be this thorough in. I hope that this becomes the cuture they establish year after year come draft time. I feel confident that we are going to come out of this draft with something good.

Phil deserves credit.

I mean so does Isaiah, it's not who you draft, its what you do once you draft the kid, which no GM/pres for the knicks have been good at in the last 20 yrs..

And that has contributed toward our lack of success over the same time span. This would be the first step toward changing that.

David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Nate Robinson all were productive picks that developed somewhat under the Knicks which either become foundation pieces of valuable assets for other quality pieces. There is no,downside to haveing a quality player with a rookie salary any way you want to play it. Knicks have to do a better job of getting better value back out of their picks.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

reub wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:With the work and due diligence that this front office has put in towards this draft. Which seems like the perfect draft to be this thorough in. I hope that this becomes the cuture they establish year after year come draft time. I feel confident that we are going to come out of this draft with something good.

Phil deserves credit.

I mean so does Isaiah, it's not who you draft, its what you do once you draft the kid, which no GM/pres for the knicks have been good at in the last 20 yrs..

last i checked KP and Willy have been successful picks and big part of our future

You could have said that about any of our picks up until before they were traded. If we were a more patient, we would stay the course with majority of the current roster. How do you really know what you have if 2 or 3 key guys were hurt, rose and noah missing camp, and the young guys just getting their feet wet.

But, if you are loosing, your hand is force to change up, can't keep young guys if they're impact is still resulting in 50+ losses per season..what's the purpose

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

reub wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:With the work and due diligence that this front office has put in towards this draft. Which seems like the perfect draft to be this thorough in. I hope that this becomes the cuture they establish year after year come draft time. I feel confident that we are going to come out of this draft with something good.

Phil deserves credit.

I mean so does Isaiah, it's not who you draft, its what you do once you draft the kid, which no GM/pres for the knicks have been good at in the last 20 yrs..

last i checked KP and Willy have been successful picks and big part of our future

You could have said that about any of our picks up until before they were traded. If we were a more patient, we would stay the course with majority of the current roster. How do you really know what you have if 2 or 3 key guys were hurt, rose and noah missing camp, and the young guys just getting their feet wet.

But, if you are loosing, your hand is force to change up, can't keep young guys if they're impact is still resulting in 50+ losses per season..what's the purpose

first off who said anything about trading them? Secondly they have basically just come into the league so we cant expect them to just carry us to the playoffs right away. Even steph curry had like 4-5 losing seasons before they took off

23 wins first season..ankle injury
36-wins 2nd season, ankle injury through out the season-drafted- klay and green
47 wins mark Jackson
50 wins mark Jackson

KD similar, 1st season was a struggle, next season drafted westbrook, they never look back. most star rookies, took there team to the playoff in yr 2 or 3. do your research, im not making this up.

We haven't made the playoff with any of our main 1st rounders other than toney douglas, who was horrible.

Kyrie's first few season by himself and a few other young guys, the cavs were trash, in comes a super star, and a all star. KP is going to be a solid 2nd or 3rd option, you if you fail to put a super star or another all star next to him, he's going to suffer loss after loss .

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

reub wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:With the work and due diligence that this front office has put in towards this draft. Which seems like the perfect draft to be this thorough in. I hope that this becomes the cuture they establish year after year come draft time. I feel confident that we are going to come out of this draft with something good.

Phil deserves credit.

I mean so does Isaiah, it's not who you draft, its what you do once you draft the kid, which no GM/pres for the knicks have been good at in the last 20 yrs..

last i checked KP and Willy have been successful picks and big part of our future

You could have said that about any of our picks up until before they were traded. If we were a more patient, we would stay the course with majority of the current roster. How do you really know what you have if 2 or 3 key guys were hurt, rose and noah missing camp, and the young guys just getting their feet wet.

But, if you are loosing, your hand is force to change up, can't keep young guys if they're impact is still resulting in 50+ losses per season..what's the purpose

first off who said anything about trading them? Secondly they have basically just come into the league so we cant expect them to just carry us to the playoffs right away. Even steph curry had like 4-5 losing seasons before they took off

23 wins first season..ankle injury
36-wins 2nd season, ankle injury through out the season-drafted- klay and green
47 wins mark Jackson
50 wins mark Jackson

KD similar, 1st season was a struggle, next season drafted westbrook, they never look back. most star rookies, took there team to the playoff in yr 2 or 3. do your research, im not making this up.

We haven't made the playoff with any of our main 1st rounders other than toney douglas, who was horrible.

Kyrie's first few season by himself and a few other young guys, the cavs were trash, in comes a super star, and a all star. KP is going to be a solid 2nd or 3rd option, you if you fail to put a super star or another all star next to him, he's going to suffer loss after loss .

Development takes time. KP will always need to be fed the ball he isn't skilled enough to be like Durant where he can take the ball coast to coast. He isn't a skilled passer. This is where I felt having Melo hurt and stunted his growth. That is why Noah is so important and might be worth his contact teaching the young bigs how to pass and rebound which KP isn't really good at. KP has mimicked Melo's game to a T.

This draft is important for the development of WH and KP as well as all the young on the team. Put it this way the Knicks need to hit on the pick. I said the before don't look at the record but see the growth of the players for the next few years. The wins will come with the development of the young. KP and WH are really good starting points for this team.

franco12 wrote:I've said this before - and I don't think the Knicks have anything like this in place- but as an organization, we should invest in more scouts than any other team. We should know about every player out there under 18 - whether here in the states or overseas.

IMO Knicks are pretty informed as far as scouting goes. I don't perceive them to be at any disadvantage when it comes to scouting.

newyorknewyork wrote:With the work and due diligence that this front office has put in towards this draft. Which seems like the perfect draft to be this thorough in. I hope that this becomes the cuture they establish year after year come draft time. I feel confident that we are going to come out of this draft with something good.

Mike Brown of the Cincinnati Bengals was one of the most criticized executives in all of pro sports. The Bengals were ugly for a long time. And for a long time, aside from a few bumps in the road, they drafted ugly. They had a reputation of having the fewest scouts and paying the least possible for front office help. If Mike Brown could save 20 bucks and cost his team a win doing it, he'd do that.

As the story goes, finally Mike Brown went a successful NFL GM ( I think it was Ron Wolf) and asked him, what do I do? How do I get these media guys and everyone else off my back?

Wolf apparently told him. The mock projections that come out for free. Or for subscriber access. Average them out and draft by that ranking system. Let the media do the work for you. Since you are picking players they are touting, they'll only say really good stuff about you. If you pick lousy players, it's going to be guys they pushed as breakouts and sleepers and they are going to explain it all away to make themselves look better and feel better.

And that's that. The Bengals now just take the highest consensus ranked guy more often than not. They get pretty good draft grades. It's really a form of bootleg "crowd sourcing" that Kings owner Vivek Ranadive is always talking about.

Phil Jackson is no genius as a GM or team runner. The NBA market structure has literally no market inefficiencies in it. The limited talent pool and guaranteed contract system and short stack draft means an early NBA rebuild literally writes itself. Some 24 year old intern in some NBA team could be making the same basic decisions here if they were attuned to market convention and trends around the league.

Early stage NBA rebuilds are not hard. When the OKC Thunder had to make some decisions about Harden and Ibaka and which center to acquire, that's hard. Just drafting Durant and Westbrook isn't that hard.

As long as Jackson takes the media/consensus/pundit choice given their view of value at the time and place, his situation is pretty damn cozy. If he's right, he takes the credit, the media pats itself on the back. If he's wrong, everyone says everyone else would have made the same pick in the same spot, you can't win them all.

This is why Bill Simmons called the NBA the No Balls Association. Because the "smart move" for GM's is to KEEP THEIR JOB and DO ANYTHING TO KEEP THEIR JOB, up to and including not actually doing their job, just picking the "safe choice" that incurs the least media and fan and owner backlash possible.

Jackson is no guru. He's an over the hill gangster that can't shoot straight anymore, living on fumes of his old street cred.

The "Halo Effect" happens in real life when you see a good looking person, and you assign all these other positive traits to them. Oh,she's a sweet girl, really humble and amazing? Is she sweet? She looks nice in a tight dress and has a nice rack and face. Is she sweet? Or is it easy to think that way? The Halo Effect also works to perception of success. Dude is successful at X, why would he not be successful at Y too? If he's not successful, there must be a reason for it! Dude is a SMART Quarterback! Well he's slow and he's WHITE from an Ivy League school, dude must be cerebral! How else did he succeed! Jeremy Lin is CLEVER! He's more athletic than you'd first imagine!

That's Jackson. A chick who used to be hot, who has a sagging rack now, and crows feet, but the person in front of them ( Dolan) can't see that. Can't see the flaws. Just sees what he wants to see, what was, not what is right now.

He WAS a great coach. He's now a mediocre team runner and front office head. One has little to do with the other. You can be hot and kind, or you can be hot and mean. Funny how the better looking the girl is, the more guys think positive things about every thing she does. Ariana Grande spill coffee on you, well she's cute. She made a mistake. Melissa McCarthy? Then she's a dumb whore.

Halo Effect. It happens all over. Even sports. It might even make Jackson look competent to some.

mase14 wrote:You have serious woman issues

More than any other professional sport in the Western world, the NBA and it's few "franchise players" are truly like a "marriage"

Tim Duncan and the Spurs are an example of a "good marriage" It's a true partnership. Sacrifice was made on both sides for the greater good of the entire group ( i.e. the family unit) Duncan had the power and clout to demand more, refuse accountability and just do whatever he wanted, but he made a choice to focus on the greater good of the partnership and the family "goals"

Melo and the Knicks are an example of a "bad marriage" Melo wants the COMMITMENT and RESOURCES of the franchise, makes demand, casts blame, takes no responsibility, and yet refuses to put in half of the partnership

- Won't put out ( i.e. refuses to be a leader)
- Won't cook or clean ( i.e. won't play defense)
- Won't be civil ( i.e. won't show restraint for outright selfish behavior)
- High maintenance ( i.e. coach killer and feuds with any teammate who gets more attention)
- Won't put in the effort to maintain the house or raise the kids (i.e. everything has to be all about him, all the time)

The Knicks ( the husband here) have given RESOURCES, TIME, EFFORT and HARD WORK to try to hold up their end of the partnership. Melo ( the jilted entitled wife here) doesn't care. Give me what I want, or I will sulk and cry and whine and blame everyone because I refuse to do the bare minimum.

Just like a real DIVORCE, the Knicks are gonna have to take a hit to get rid of Melo. It will cost them time, bad press and likely have to take bad contracts back.

Why is DIVORCE so expensive? Because it's worth it.

You are mistaken, I don't have issues with women, I have ISSUES WITH MELO ACTING LIKE A WOMAN. No accountability. No logic. Just entitled selfish behavior that's all about getting massive attention ( branding) and validation (being an "icon")

The Knicks have no one to blame but themselves, they let the "woman" here go out of control. They didn't set boundaries, they didn't set limits, they didn't put "her" in her place. And now "she's" out of control.

Jeremy Lin was a good marriage. He wanted to be here. He lead the team. He put the team on his back. He shouldered the blame in losses. He stepped up and stepped forward, for the greater good of the "family" in place.

But like all marriage, you need to "vet" i.e. check out the prospect. Lin always worked hard. Always put in the extra work. Never gave up. Always considered the greater good of the family. Melo, in contrast, in his Denver days, was always a high maintenance selfish diva. Just like a guy who ignores a girls past cheating, her whoring, her drinking and drug use, her herpes and her lousy friends and her poor character, the Knicks just ignored the red flags literally smoking out of Melo from the beginning. And look what it got them?

The Knicks gave Melo EVERYTHING he wanted and demanded. And where did it get them?

Just like a soft serve pushover husband who gives the mean and thoughtless and selfish wife everything she wants, how is that going to work out? Giving a spoiled brat all the toys in the world?

You don't turn a ho into a housewife.

You don't turn a selfish no defense shotjacking coach killer with zero sense of civility and zero leadership into a franchise player.

Character matters. It just does. Talent is great, but it's nothing without the drive and accountability to consider the "family" in place ( i.e. the way Tim Duncan carried himself as a Spur)

A lot of you have talked, over the years, about having kids and raising kids.

You want your son to marry some basic chick who has been plowed hard by 150 guys on Tinder and can't stop drinking and snorting coke?

You want your daughter to marry a guy who can't hold a job or can't be faithful or can't show even basic respect?

Then why would anyone here want the Knicks to form an "engagement" with a player with so many red flags, hoping he'd change into something resembling a true partner? It's like hoping an alcoholic stops drinking themselves to death and change for you. Or hoping the person stops beating you. Or stops cheating on you. Or stops treating you like garbage.

What's the saying, find me a pretty girl and I'll find you a guy out there who is sick of her crap. That's Melo, the family is now sick of his crap. They done with the "relationship" But like a jilted wife, Melo doesn't want to leave a comfortable situation. Why go out there and fend for yourself, when you can just be a leech and shoulder no responsibility and yet still demand all the benefits of the commitment?

Melo carries the character of a basic ho. A low rent jump off. Some video jizz sponge of zero integrity.

The Knicks are punished like everyone is punished for being so "lonely" (i.e. tired of losing) that they neglected the basics of just having some standards in the first place (i.e. having some freaking dignity)

Just being "pretty" ( i.e. being able to be a one dimensional scoring in isolation) is just not enough. It can't be enough. Character actually matters.

Do I have an issue with women?

Or do I have an issue with a fugazy "franchise player" who acts like a woman who resents the marriage she chose in the first place?

*Drops the mic*