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gasp...the spin doctor agrees with briggs & islesfan (armaggedon is upon us)
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djsunyc
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8/19/2004  10:29 AM
http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix193935222aug19,0,529022.story?coll=ny-knicks-print
Dampier's not coming, so Baker's back
BY ARTHUR STAPLE
STAFF WRITER

August 19, 2004


Isiah Thomas missed out on center Erick Dampier, but the Knicks president has been heartened by what he called "a good sign" that premier players are willing to come to the Knicks.

How heartened? He couldn't name names, of course, but Thomas was not dismissive of Vince Carter's recent comments that the Raptors star would like to play in New York. It would take an incredible amount of roster and salary-cap juggling to fit Carter's $12-million salary into an already jammed payroll, but Thomas sounded yesterday like a man up for such a challenge.

"I've been known to be creative," Thomas said on a conference call to announce re-signing Vin Baker to a one-year deal. "We definitely can put together creative deals here."

Thomas could not do that for Dampier, who apparently will wind up in Dallas. ESPN.com reported late Tuesday night that the Mavericks agreed in principle to a trade with the Warriors that would send Dampier, Evan Eschmeyer and Dan Dickau to Dallas for Christian Laettner, Eduardo Najera and two first-round picks.

The deal cannot be consummated immediately because NBA rules stipulate no player can be traded twice in a two-month period, and Dickau and Laettner already have been traded this summer.

"We're not in a situation where we can mortgage our future," Thomas said. "We're building for the future. Dallas is trying to win today. Damp would've helped us tremendously, but we still would have had pieces to add. Dallas can mortgage their future."

Baker, 32 and coming off surgery to correct a rapid heartbeat, helped stabilize the Knicks at center in a 17-game stint last season, and Thomas claimed to be satisfied with the pivot combination of Baker and Nazr Mohammed.

"We made the playoffs with these two guys," Thomas said. "We've gotten better as a team. It's difficult to acquire a quality big man in this league. We'll continue to try to do that but, at the same time, speed does negate size. We now have a quick enough team to compete against the plodders."

The 6-11, 250-pound Baker averaged 6.6 points and 4.1 rebounds in 17 games as a Knick. His heart procedure was a success, and Thomas said Baker has been cleared to play.

He hopes the same will hold true for Allan Houston, who Thomas said was "progressing extremely well" with his creaky knees. "We expect [Houston] to be 100 percent for training camp," Thomas said.
AUTOADVERT
deebo
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8/19/2004  10:33 AM
We didn't need Erick anyway. Career underachiever, getting old, and doesn't show up every night. We should really consider trading KT a for young, athletic big man that can play either PF/C. Chris Wilcox (LAC), Jabari Smith (Sac), and Maurice Taylor (Hou)to name a few. Well, maybe not Taylor, he doesn't have any D.
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TMS
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8/19/2004  10:39 AM
this article says Vin was signed to a 1 year deal, but the NY Times article has Vin signed to a 2 year deal...who's right?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
deebo
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8/19/2004  10:49 AM
the deal is for two years 3.2 mil. each year. Not a bad deal for a guy who could potentially have a comeback year after the surgery. Looking at how he played the beginning of the year in Boston, I think Vin is good for 15 and 10 at the center position.
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fishmike
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8/19/2004  10:58 AM
I dont really understand the title "gasp...the spin doctor agrees with briggs & islesfan (armaggedon is upon us)"
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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8/19/2004  11:01 AM
Posted by fishmike:

I dont really understand the title "gasp...the spin doctor agrees with briggs & islesfan (armaggedon is upon us)"

spin doctor = isiah
isles and briggs (i think) keep saying he's building for the now instead of the future but isiah said it himself that he's building for the future and not the now.

i wonder how isles is going to respond to this type of "spin" isiah is putting on...
BRIGGS
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8/19/2004  11:09 AM
wow, isiah has been sniffing to much layden air inside the offices.
RIP Crushalot😞
islesfan
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8/19/2004  11:11 AM
Posted by fishmike:

I dont really understand the title "gasp...the spin doctor agrees with briggs & islesfan (armaggedon is upon us)"

Yeah I don't either. Maybe he's trying to stroke my ego.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
djsunyc
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8/19/2004  11:14 AM
alright fellas - it was a reach i admit...now get off my back
Solace
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8/19/2004  12:37 PM
Posted by deebo:

We didn't need Erick anyway. Career underachiever, getting old, and doesn't show up every night.

Why people keep saying this? It's really unfounded. Newsflash: Dampier's stats went up when he got more minutes. No big shock there. When he played 24 mpg, he was a 7-7 player, when he played 32 mpg, he became a 12-12 player. Career underachiever? No, he just got better with more minutes, and the production was allowed to span out and become more noticed with more minutes. 32 mpg is not a ton for a starter either. Anyway, guys, if you really like to follow the stats, the fact remains that Dampier would've been at least a 10-10 player for the seasons before this past one, had he gotten the same minutes he did last season. He's not a career underachiever; it's just that last year was the first he was given a chance to shine.
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fishmike
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8/19/2004  12:40 PM
well, it goes both way. You can always wonder why he couldnt stay on the floor more when Adonal Foyal is backing you up.

I have no knocks on Damp myself. I think he would have been a perfect fit (just like he is for dal) and based on our needs he would have been worth overpaying for.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
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8/19/2004  2:19 PM
Posted by fishmike:

well, it goes both way. You can always wonder why he couldnt stay on the floor more when Adonal Foyal is backing you up.

I have no knocks on Damp myself. I think he would have been a perfect fit (just like he is for dal) and based on our needs he would have been worth overpaying for.

That's how I feel too. As for GS, you have to wonder what they were thinking. They finally give him a fair amount of minutes in a free agency year. You know that drives a player's value up... bad idea. Anyway, though, in past years, GS did have three centers: Dampier, Foyle & Marc Jackson, along with good forwards in Troy Murphy, Danny Fortson & Antoine Jamison, so there was more competition for minutes in the frontcourt. Last year, they thinned out their frontcourt, and it looked pretty successful like that.
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TMS
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8/19/2004  2:30 PM
so you guys would have had no problem giving up Deke, Othella & 2 1st round picks & take on Eschmeyer's contract to get Dampier?

i wouldn't have made that trade myself, but that's just me.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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8/19/2004  2:34 PM
I wouldnt have no... thats too much because Dampier wouldnt make us the best team in our conference, and to be honest I would rather have Crawford right now.

When I said overpay I meant $10-$12mm a year.

I think next summer's crop of bigs will be better for us to be honest. We will see.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Solace
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8/19/2004  2:36 PM
That wouldn't have bothered me at all. I always thought Dampier was worth it, and getting a center of his caliber is a very rare and difficult feat. The fact that we missed out is a major blunder. Despite the age difference, I'd take Dampier over Crawford in a heartbeat. If we desperately needed a SG, we could've always packaged Kurt with another player to fill that slot or found another way to get Crawford.
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deebo
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8/19/2004  2:42 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by deebo:

We didn't need Erick anyway. Career underachiever, getting old, and doesn't show up every night.

Why people keep saying this? It's really unfounded. Newsflash: Dampier's stats went up when he got more minutes. No big shock there. When he played 24 mpg, he was a 7-7 player, when he played 32 mpg, he became a 12-12 player. Career underachiever? No, he just got better with more minutes, and the production was allowed to span out and become more noticed with more minutes. 32 mpg is not a ton for a starter either. Anyway, guys, if you really like to follow the stats, the fact remains that Dampier would've been at least a 10-10 player for the seasons before this past one, had he gotten the same minutes he did last season. He's not a career underachiever; it's just that last year was the first he was given a chance to shine.
Damp was a career underachiever. If you can recall before last season, Damp was overweight and wasn't in near as good condition as he was last season. It just so happened that before the last season of his opt out contract he got in shape. When GS saw that he was in shape they had to give him minutes. I just didn't see him as that savior that everyone else was claiming. Of course he would have been productive for NYK, but not for the six years (contract) that he was looking for.
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Solace
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8/19/2004  2:47 PM
Posted by deebo:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by deebo:

We didn't need Erick anyway. Career underachiever, getting old, and doesn't show up every night.

Why people keep saying this? It's really unfounded. Newsflash: Dampier's stats went up when he got more minutes. No big shock there. When he played 24 mpg, he was a 7-7 player, when he played 32 mpg, he became a 12-12 player. Career underachiever? No, he just got better with more minutes, and the production was allowed to span out and become more noticed with more minutes. 32 mpg is not a ton for a starter either. Anyway, guys, if you really like to follow the stats, the fact remains that Dampier would've been at least a 10-10 player for the seasons before this past one, had he gotten the same minutes he did last season. He's not a career underachiever; it's just that last year was the first he was given a chance to shine.
Damp was a career underachiever. If you can recall before last season, Damp was overweight and wasn't in near as good condition as he was last season. It just so happened that before the last season of his opt out contract he got in shape. When GS saw that he was in shape they had to give him minutes. I just didn't see him as that savior that everyone else was claiming. Of course he would have been productive for NYK, but not for the six years (contract) that he was looking for.

Again, improving himself does not make him an underachiever. It's a knock on him for not being as good in previous years as he was last year? That's just silly. His crime is that he got better? It's not like he was *bad* before that. He just got *better*, but he also got the opportunity this time. I think some people put too much into *consistency*. The fact remains that even when Erick was a 7-7 player in 24 mpg, he was still better than a lot of centers out there. There are some centers that wouldn't put up 7-7 in 30 mpg. With the lack of good centers in the NBA, Dampier was certainly worth 6 years, $65 million, without question. It's all relative value, but his value surpassed a lot of players last year, but it was because he got a chance.

It's moot now, because we missed him, but Dallas sure looks good. They might just win a championship, even without Nash. Scary team.

[Edited by - Solace on 08/19/2004 14:48:22]
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deebo
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8/19/2004  2:55 PM
Well, I'm still glad we didn't get him. Dallas has definitely added a missing piece. We got back Vin, and I think he will be able to get 12 and 12 if he gets 30mins. So, Dal and NYK came out well. In fact, we got a play in Vin for half the price.
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Solace
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8/19/2004  3:00 PM
Posted by deebo:

Well, I'm still glad we didn't get him. Dallas has definitely added a missing piece. We got back Vin, and I think he will be able to get 12 and 12 if he gets 30mins. So, Dal and NYK came out well. In fact, we got a play in Vin for half the price.

12 and 12 from Vin Baker? What??? Even in Vin Baker's prime, he never got more than 10.3 rpg in 41 mpg. Since 2000, Baker's high is 6.4 rpg, despite getting 31 mpg that year (2001-2002). I'll eat crow if Baker even comes close to 12-12, but he hasn't been that good a rebounder in a long time and was never in Dampier's class in rebounding. I think it's a safe bet that in 30 mpg, Baker's stats look more like 12 ppg, 6 rpg, 0.6 blk, 0.6 stl.
...
deebo
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8/19/2004  3:08 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by deebo:

Well, I'm still glad we didn't get him. Dallas has definitely added a missing piece. We got back Vin, and I think he will be able to get 12 and 12 if he gets 30mins. So, Dal and NYK came out well. In fact, we got a play in Vin for half the price.

12 and 12 from Vin Baker? What??? Even in Vin Baker's prime, he never got more than 10.3 rpg in 41 mpg. Since 2000, Baker's high is 6.4 rpg, despite getting 31 mpg that year (2001-2002). I'll eat crow if Baker even comes close to 12-12, but he hasn't been that good a rebounder in a long time and was never in Dampier's class in rebounding. I think it's a safe bet that in 30 mpg, Baker's stats look more like 12 ppg, 6 rpg, 0.6 blk, 0.6 stl.
I agree. I may have jumped out on a limb. But, we have to work with what we got. I expect to see some improvement from Vin. His points will definitely go up, the questions mark is his rebounding. If him and Starbury utilize the pick and roll, (like Starbury and Doleac did) his points will definitely go up. As far as rebounding, you could at least give Vin 8/game.
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