Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:KP has said he wants to win above all else. If we trade melo for peanuts or bench him as some here want to do, i think him staying here is very much in question. Its not about trading for picks in perpetuity. It's risk mitigation. There are plenty of indications he isn't happy and few indications that our team is going to be dramatically better in the next 2 years.

Are you equating winning with keeping Melo?!

No way. But if u trade him for a bag of balls and some bad contracts or just let him ride the dnp train, it'll be equated with losing by KP, likely.

OK, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, although I think any attachment KP has to Melo is illogical from a W-L perspective, I don't think Melo should be traded for junk either. I'd at least rather wait until he has a good stretch and has a higher trade value and can get something worthwhile in a trade, or just hold onto him and give Hornacek freedom to use "tough love" on him. Trading him this off-season (even without Phil's comments) would be a classic example of selling low most likely.

Now given KP has all of about 2 W's without Melo, how does KP's attachment to Melo seem illogical from a W-L perspective? I mean, sharing the ball perspective, sure. Defensive perspective, sure. W-L? Just asking.

Hornacek has the credibility to use "tough love" on Melo? Where did that come from? His glory days in Phoenix? His amazing run of rings he won in Utah? Not sure how Melo the "coach cancer" starts taking tough love from a coach who barely gets to do what he wants without Big Uncle Ring Daddy Triangle's approval.

I'm sorry, is a Lebron love child secretly available at #8 and is going to displace Melo next season? N"knick"lina going to suddenly be Klay Thompson? Malik Monk is the new saviour? Don't see any of that happening next year, not from a #8 pick, sorry. Unless you see something amazing in the list of #8 picks historically. You at least have a large sample size to look at.

W-L perspective, there isn't much difference to the winning percentage last year with vs. without Melo, and that doesn't even address how the team would be doing if the $25 mil per on Melo was spent intelligently anyway. Hornacek gets credibility by showing Melo the shot charts and allowing logic to depict how bad his results are on mid-range shots, especially contested ones. If Melo isn't responsive to logic, then we're screwed but we have to at least try if we're keeping Melo. If he's going to keep chucking bad shots and not trying on defense, we're screwed anyway.

What do you mean "if"??????

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:KP has said he wants to win above all else. If we trade melo for peanuts or bench him as some here want to do, i think him staying here is very much in question. Its not about trading for picks in perpetuity. It's risk mitigation. There are plenty of indications he isn't happy and few indications that our team is going to be dramatically better in the next 2 years.

Are you equating winning with keeping Melo?!

No way. But if u trade him for a bag of balls and some bad contracts or just let him ride the dnp train, it'll be equated with losing by KP, likely.

OK, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, although I think any attachment KP has to Melo is illogical from a W-L perspective, I don't think Melo should be traded for junk either. I'd at least rather wait until he has a good stretch and has a higher trade value and can get something worthwhile in a trade, or just hold onto him and give Hornacek freedom to use "tough love" on him. Trading him this off-season (even without Phil's comments) would be a classic example of selling low most likely.

Now given KP has all of about 2 W's without Melo, how does KP's attachment to Melo seem illogical from a W-L perspective? I mean, sharing the ball perspective, sure. Defensive perspective, sure. W-L? Just asking.

Hornacek has the credibility to use "tough love" on Melo? Where did that come from? His glory days in Phoenix? His amazing run of rings he won in Utah? Not sure how Melo the "coach cancer" starts taking tough love from a coach who barely gets to do what he wants without Big Uncle Ring Daddy Triangle's approval.

I'm sorry, is a Lebron love child secretly available at #8 and is going to displace Melo next season? N"knick"lina going to suddenly be Klay Thompson? Malik Monk is the new saviour? Don't see any of that happening next year, not from a #8 pick, sorry. Unless you see something amazing in the list of #8 picks historically. You at least have a large sample size to look at.

W-L perspective, there isn't much difference to the winning percentage last year with vs. without Melo, and that doesn't even address how the team would be doing if the $25 mil per on Melo was spent intelligently anyway. Hornacek gets credibility by showing Melo the shot charts and allowing logic to depict how bad his results are on mid-range shots, especially contested ones. If Melo isn't responsive to logic, then we're screwed but we have to at least try if we're keeping Melo. If he's going to keep chucking bad shots and not trying on defense, we're screwed anyway.

Okay, I'm not going to revisit the 9-51 without Melo bunny hole with you again, since somehow stating it as winning percentages sounds better. And it's great you can constantly talk about Melo's contract, because, as we all know, NBA salaries everywhere are just a work of art in fiscal efficiency, especially here in Dolanville.

Melo's really never bothered to look at his own shot charts? Really? I would surely hope Hornacek can get credibility by doing something other than pointing at empty O's on a shot chart.

Horn: Hey, Carlo!
Melo: Hate that lame sheet, Coach
Horn: You read about how they say you don't try on D?
Melo: Sure, Coach, read it every day. Sometimes right before I go to the bank.
Horn: Can we maybe make more of an effort on close outs and on the perimeter.
Melo: Yeah man! We never thought about that before! We on it!
Horn: What about these lame azz mid range shots you keep bricking?
Melo: You miss all the shots you don't take, Coach.
Horn: Good talk. Hey, front me some cheese? I'm kinda short this month.

2-6, not 9-51. You missed where I said last year. (I meant this year that just finished.) Which years are you counting (definitely not all of the years the Knicks have had Melo). This has no relevance to the issue I care about, which is how the team would do if Melo's money had been spent intelligently. That said, I don't hate Melo by any means and he's definitely not our worst contract or biggest problem.

There's a whole thread on the article about how Melo's statistically played with mostly the worst W-L crew in the NBA. Not sure exactly what Knicks years it covered, but it was recent, and included KP's tenure.

Anyway, Bonn boy, that line just made me well up with tears.
I don't know whether to feel happy or disgusted about Noah's contract now... Happy -- Bonn knows it's worse than Melo's! Disgusted -- it's worse than Melo's!

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:KP has said he wants to win above all else. If we trade melo for peanuts or bench him as some here want to do, i think him staying here is very much in question. Its not about trading for picks in perpetuity. It's risk mitigation. There are plenty of indications he isn't happy and few indications that our team is going to be dramatically better in the next 2 years.

Are you equating winning with keeping Melo?!

No way. But if u trade him for a bag of balls and some bad contracts or just let him ride the dnp train, it'll be equated with losing by KP, likely.

OK, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, although I think any attachment KP has to Melo is illogical from a W-L perspective, I don't think Melo should be traded for junk either. I'd at least rather wait until he has a good stretch and has a higher trade value and can get something worthwhile in a trade, or just hold onto him and give Hornacek freedom to use "tough love" on him. Trading him this off-season (even without Phil's comments) would be a classic example of selling low most likely.

Now given KP has all of about 2 W's without Melo, how does KP's attachment to Melo seem illogical from a W-L perspective? I mean, sharing the ball perspective, sure. Defensive perspective, sure. W-L? Just asking.

Hornacek has the credibility to use "tough love" on Melo? Where did that come from? His glory days in Phoenix? His amazing run of rings he won in Utah? Not sure how Melo the "coach cancer" starts taking tough love from a coach who barely gets to do what he wants without Big Uncle Ring Daddy Triangle's approval.

I'm sorry, is a Lebron love child secretly available at #8 and is going to displace Melo next season? N"knick"lina going to suddenly be Klay Thompson? Malik Monk is the new saviour? Don't see any of that happening next year, not from a #8 pick, sorry. Unless you see something amazing in the list of #8 picks historically. You at least have a large sample size to look at.

W-L perspective, there isn't much difference to the winning percentage last year with vs. without Melo, and that doesn't even address how the team would be doing if the $25 mil per on Melo was spent intelligently anyway. Hornacek gets credibility by showing Melo the shot charts and allowing logic to depict how bad his results are on mid-range shots, especially contested ones. If Melo isn't responsive to logic, then we're screwed but we have to at least try if we're keeping Melo. If he's going to keep chucking bad shots and not trying on defense, we're screwed anyway.

Okay, I'm not going to revisit the 9-51 without Melo bunny hole with you again, since somehow stating it as winning percentages sounds better. And it's great you can constantly talk about Melo's contract, because, as we all know, NBA salaries everywhere are just a work of art in fiscal efficiency, especially here in Dolanville.

Melo's really never bothered to look at his own shot charts? Really? I would surely hope Hornacek can get credibility by doing something other than pointing at empty O's on a shot chart.

Horn: Hey, Carlo!
Melo: Hate that lame sheet, Coach
Horn: You read about how they say you don't try on D?
Melo: Sure, Coach, read it every day. Sometimes right before I go to the bank.
Horn: Can we maybe make more of an effort on close outs and on the perimeter.
Melo: Yeah man! We never thought about that before! We on it!
Horn: What about these lame azz mid range shots you keep bricking?
Melo: You miss all the shots you don't take, Coach.
Horn: Good talk. Hey, front me some cheese? I'm kinda short this month.

2-6, not 9-51. You missed where I said last year. (I meant this year that just finished.) Which years are you counting (definitely not all of the years the Knicks have had Melo). This has no relevance to the issue I care about, which is how the team would do if Melo's money had been spent intelligently. That said, I don't hate Melo by any means and he's definitely not our worst contract or biggest problem.

There's a whole thread on the article about how Melo's statistically played with mostly the worst W-L crew in the NBA. Not sure exactly what Knicks years it covered, but it was recent, and included KP's tenure.

Anyway, Bonn boy, that line just made me well up with tears.
I don't know whether to feel happy or disgusted about Noah's contract now... Happy -- Bonn knows it's worse than Melo's! Disgusted -- it's worse than Melo's!

Yeah that article basically showed that we're really bad with or without Melo

smackeddog wrote:I still think the Celtics will offer us the first for KP:

"Multiple league sources have told CSNNE.com in recent weeks that the Celtics are focused on landing an All-Star caliber talent in the frontcourt.
 
That makes sense when you consider how guard-dominant the Celtics were this season and how that had a negative impact on the team's rebounding and, to a lesser degree, their defense as a whole."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-guard-oriented-celtics-want-to-add-all-star-caliber-talent-to-their-frontcourt/

if they want all start front court talent
send melo to the spurs and aldridge to them
nice dreams like cheech and chong said

Chandler wrote:

smackeddog wrote:I still think the Celtics will offer us the first for KP:

"Multiple league sources have told CSNNE.com in recent weeks that the Celtics are focused on landing an All-Star caliber talent in the frontcourt.
 
That makes sense when you consider how guard-dominant the Celtics were this season and how that had a negative impact on the team's rebounding and, to a lesser degree, their defense as a whole."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-guard-oriented-celtics-want-to-add-all-star-caliber-talent-to-their-frontcourt/

I am convinced they will and probably add more but we should hang up the phone when they call

Boston can remake themselves very nicely over the summer. Griff can be a part of something special but has to give up some money. Boston can also continue to build for the long term as well.
They play their cards right they can contend for years to come with the assets they have.

celtics have what we depleted long ago. OPTIONS AND OPPORTUNITIES! for 15 years we have been depleting.