dacash wrote:

Nalod wrote:

dacash wrote:looking at san antonio and seeing that aldridge is always a second fiddle and not producing how about melo to the spurs and aldridge to the celtics keep kp

SAS won 61 games. Not sure how that figures.
I like the idea of Boston faciliating.

just tossing crap out lol, trade kp oh my, but ppl have been waiting for him to lead from his portland days now no kawahi,no parker and pop is praising simmons and calling him out, boston facilitating pics and young players for him would be nice, he could be third again after it and horton. oh lord i sound like a realgm poster.

Aldridge and Horford about the same player. Not sure celts need more of that. nOt at that salary level.
spurs don't seem to be that kind of franchise that bails on a player. The team got it done vs. Rockets and down two starters is hard to over come.

TheGame wrote:To clarify my post, I never said trade KP for the 1st pick. I said Boston Would have to give us the 1st pick and next year's nets pick, plus one other player for KP. So we are getting ALOT. I would not trade KP for just this year's number 1 pick. And I think Boston would do it. KP is exactly what Boston is missing-a shot blocker and defender from the center position. This is not trading just to trade a player. This is taking advantage of a golden opportunity to totally restock our team with high lottery talent over just two seasons. By summer of 2018, we would have four lottery players and cap space to add a max player at any position of need.

If Boston offered that up, we'd be foolish to say no.

Personally - I might be happy to trade KP straight up for the first pick they have this year.

I don't think Boston would do either.

matt wrote:I just don't understand the Trade KP movement. He's the exact player you HOPE to get in a draft pick. Like... we did it - we did the hard part. We got the potential franchise player. Why would you trade him in hopes of finding a potential franchise player?

If you believe he will walk as a free agent the very first chance he will get, you are faced with trading him to get something or letting him walk for nothing.

In that case, you aren't trading him to try to churn a better asset, you are trading him to get something instead of getting nothing.

The 49ers could have won 6-7 Super Bowls in a row in the early 90s. Do you know why they did not? Because the Cowboys were going head to head with them every year, with the winner of those contests eventually killing off the AFC teams in the Super Bowl. One of the big differences was that the 49ers traded defensive end Charles Haley, a future HOF player, to the Cowboys before this rivalry started. They traded him because he lacked talent? They traded him because he became a team cancer and a team disruption on purpose to get traded. He would take off his shorts in film sessions and jack off in front of everyone. He would poop in a napkin and leave it for his position coaches. He would walk about the locker room shouting about the size of his manhood. Former 49er Ronnie Lott was brought in to try to calm him down a little, and when asked, Lott told the 49ers brass to just trade him. It had gotten to the point where several coaches were sure Haley would kill one of them eventually.

If a player doesn't want to be on your team and acts that way, it's not like you can salvage the relationship.

Do the Knicks WANT to trade Zinger? No

Will the Knicks NEED to trade Zinger, over the prospect of getting nothing? If the answer is Yes, then you trade him for whatever max value you can get.

fishmike wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Never did i think so many trade threads would constantly come up in KP's 2nd season. NY has a truly unique fan base.

unique is one way of putting it... more like pathetic. and we think we deserve to be good, when we have people trying to to trade the best player we've drafted since patrick ewing?

yea... its really ludicrous. No matter what KP's ceiling is you keep him. He's got best player in the league potential. Even if he doesnt reach that and he's a complimentary player lets look at that.... defends, protects the rim, scores from anywhere... this is so stupid to be talking about trading this 21 year old. STUPID STUPID STUPID STUPID. Only Knick fans.

Trading him for a veteran player is stupid, but honestly considering trading him for the number 1 pick is due diligence- I don't see the stupidity in at least considering it. Would you take KP at number 1 in this draft? Is he better than anyone in this draft class? (Those are genuine questions). It's not just about talent, but attitude- has he become a diva, is he going to throw a tantrum in 2 yrs when we're still losing and demand a trade? How much upside does he still have? This is a good point to stop and take stock- is he going to be our franchise corner stone or not? Would someone in this draft be better in that capacity. Whatever you decide its certainly worth thinking about.

nykshaknbake wrote:KP has said he wants to win above all else. If we trade melo for peanuts or bench him as some here want to do, i think him staying here is very much in question. Its not about trading for picks in perpetuity. It's risk mitigation. There are plenty of indications he isn't happy and few indications that our team is going to be dramatically better in the next 2 years.

franco12 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Knicks already traded Rolo who was the kind of low post player this team hasn't seen since KT. Now you want to trade the best big man we've had since Ewing, who hasn't even entered his prime yet. Some of you guys might enjoy hitting the reset button every season, but I dont. Its beyond played out.

This is not trading Rolo - that was a bad move - what do we have to show for it? Nothing, or worse, the bad deal we handed to Noah.

We're talking about trading KP for a lottery pick this year. That isn't garbage.

I don't think Boston would trade the #1 pick this year for KP- let alone any of the other assets thrown out in the original proposal above.

But, if Boston would trade the #1 pick straight up for KP, you do it - assuming you feel that you believe Fultz or Ball are legit franchise talents.

Why I make that trade?

Betting now - is KP a franchise talent - I say no. I could be wrong, but it's a bet.

I reset things back 2 years, and now I'm adding two players this year that can perhaps be foundation franchise players.

If you're betting KP is a franchise talent, then you don't trade him.

Now - I said this in another thread, I need to see something from KP this year. He needs to bulk up, he needs to play 70 games at least. And he needs to NOT FADE after December. His 3pt shooting % has to increase a lot. And I need to see a pt different on his offense/defense #s.

If he is a franchise caliber talent, you'll see that in year three.

But otherwise, we have a really nice player. Maybe the next Kevin Love. But do you build around Kevin Love? Or With a Kevin Love?

For me, it's WITH or AROUND.

You need both, but AROUND is the harder talent to find, we we don't have that, in my evaluation.

Could KP become that? Yes, there is still time.

But gun to my head, right this moment. NO.

Yes everything on the team is garbage and everything else is gold because an immature kid made a bad decision. I don't think you really care for building anything. You get high on the drama around high profile transactions. It's like heroin.

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:well boston did say they'd trade the #1 pick for the 2nd coming and he is porzingod
anyway...this whole trade to boston type of stupid ideas is why the knicks management can also get frustrated with knicks fans.
knicks fans have 0 patience and everything needs to be fixed with a plan today!

lets draft well for 2-3 years and build through that as opposed to drafting well and then trading them. smh.

I don't think this criticism is valid. The proposed trade would mean patience for 8 seasons worth of lottery picked players on rookie contracts (rather than KP's 2 seasons). Doing this trade actually requires much more patience.

The proposed would mean more proposed trades for the next crush they have from next season's draft.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:KP has said he wants to win above all else. If we trade melo for peanuts or bench him as some here want to do, i think him staying here is very much in question. Its not about trading for picks in perpetuity. It's risk mitigation. There are plenty of indications he isn't happy and few indications that our team is going to be dramatically better in the next 2 years.

Are you equating winning with keeping Melo?!

No way. But if u trade him for a bag of balls and some bad contracts or just let him ride the dnp train, it'll be equated with losing by KP, likely.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:KP has said he wants to win above all else. If we trade melo for peanuts or bench him as some here want to do, i think him staying here is very much in question. Its not about trading for picks in perpetuity. It's risk mitigation. There are plenty of indications he isn't happy and few indications that our team is going to be dramatically better in the next 2 years.

Are you equating winning with keeping Melo?!

No way. But if u trade him for a bag of balls and some bad contracts or just let him ride the dnp train, it'll be equated with losing by KP, likely.

OK, I understand what you're saying. Yeah, although I think any attachment KP has to Melo is illogical from a W-L perspective, I don't think Melo should be traded for junk either. I'd at least rather wait until he has a good stretch and has a higher trade value and can get something worthwhile in a trade, or just hold onto him and give Hornacek freedom to use "tough love" on him. Trading him this off-season (even without Phil's comments) would be a classic example of selling low most likely.

Melo has close to no trade value. He has close to no trade value right now, he will have close to no trade value in the offseason, he will have close to no trade value if he starts off hot and plays like a first team All NBA guy.

There is NO high value versus low value with trading Melo

There is getting a bad deal ( i.e. eating at least one bad long term contract coming back) or NO DEAL AT ALL

He's an aging shotjacker/ballstopper making massive money who doesn't play defense, won't play team basketball and is a known coach killer with a NTC and a trade kicker.

This is like saying, I'd rather have a hot 19 year old Brazilian virgin who can suck a golf ball through a garden hose instead of that chipped tooth 65 year old sagging harpy with HIV.

Of course you would. We all would.

This is not the trade scenario practical for Melo, what is practical is you get a chipped toothed 65 year old sagging harpy with HIV or you get nothing at all. This is the desert island scenario in place. It's not a warm wet hole versus you drilling out a coconut in a Tom Hanks dazed Castaway losing your mind scene, it's bad deal or no deal.

Whether or not Melo is on this roster or not, this team is in bad shape for the future. Melo on or not, this team will lose and keep losing during Zinger's rest of contract tenure. The difference is with Melo off, team ball might be possible and at least Zinger can take as many shots as he wants.

The Knicks are not getting the No#1 overall plus more for Zinger. That's patently insane. There is no previous NBA precedent even remotely near this type of trade proposal. Nothing in NBA modern draft history nor trade history even within 15 miles of this kind of suggestion. Sorry, I know a lot of you guys like to talk it out, but it's not a viable NBA trade.

To get max value, this team MUST trade Zinger in the next calendar year or risk losing him for a lot less or nothing down the road. This is not about what the Knicks WANT to do, it's about what the Knicks will likely NEED to do.

Knicks need a total rebuild. Celtics want to contend now and build for the future.
Knicks don't have enough assets for a total rebuild. Celtics have way too many assets and young players to properly build them all the right way.

Then there's a lot of other factors. Phil doesn't seem to necessarily feel KP is a franchise cornerstone. KP skipped the meeting. KP is attached to Melo who is out the door. As epically talented as KP might be, he might not be the best fit on the Knicks. And in a league where assets are very liquid, I think if the team doesn't think KP is a sure thing corner stone then you definitely look for the trade.

If I were the Celtics, I'd think about bunching up assets to get KP. Maybe start at the Brooklyn pick and 2 2nd rounders. Maybe some sort of package can be worked out for the brooklyn pick and jaylen brown(melos replacement) for KP and something else.