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OT: Boston in a world of first round hurt? ...until next offseason?
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fwk00
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4/20/2017  8:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/20/2017  8:44 PM
Its hard to imagine Thomas being upended in Boston for the foreseeable future. Just not going to happen given his sister's death and playing through it.

I could see Melo and Plumlee for Avery, Crowder, and next year's (late) first rounder which I think would be a decent return. Boston is largely a system team with little outstanding talent but great chemistry.

If they draft a PG, Avery is expendable. Jaylen Brown needs minutes so Crowder is also expendable. Maybe a switch of this year's second rounders makes it work.

Certainly a reasonable trade partner.

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newyorknewyork
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4/21/2017  9:12 AM
http://nypost.com/2017/04/20/carmelo-anthony-to-celtics-scenario-could-pick-up-steam/

According to an NBA source, the Celtics coaching staff was in favor of trading for Anthony at the trade deadline, but general manager Danny Ainge had too many reservations. One of Ainge’s concerns, according to a source, was an Anthony trade would have given Boston no real cap space to work with for the 2017 free-agent class.

The rights to the Celtics’ 2017 draft picks could also be part of a July package. The Knicks have two second-round selections and the Celtics have three.

If Melo was moved to the Celtics that #37 2nd rounder has to be had among other things like rights to Nets pick next yr.

newyorker4ever
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4/21/2017  9:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 4/21/2017  9:42 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:They signed Al Horford to be their go to guy and he has never been that in his career. I feel like a Melo for Horford + and some combination of pics and/or yoots might have a real possibility of happening if they nosedive.

If i'm trading with Boston i'm not trdaing for A.Horford, i'm wanting J.Crowder, A.Bradley (this would be my top guy i'd want), J.Brown, M.Smart (not to sure with this guy), T.Rozier or draft picks but i would have A.Bradley at the top of my list with Crowder a close 2nd.

newyorker4ever
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4/21/2017  9:47 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:Melo is a good option for Boston
But I can't see them give up more than Jae Crowder and change.

Maybe Jae Crowder and Avery Bradley for Melo.
They draft Jackson

Horford/Olnyk
Melo/Amir
Jackson
Smart/Brown
Thomas

Nice core and rotation to have plus 30$M in space to make team better with free agents.

They would never give up Crowder and Bradley for Melo but i would take either one of them for Melo especially A.Bradley. I would give them Melo, C.Lee and KOQ to get both Crowder and Bradley and would even add more to that package. I'm a huge A.Bradley fan.

Nalod
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4/21/2017  11:43 AM
Does anyone really know how NTC really work? IS there a rule that a player must give more than one destination? If not it really can diminish the value or opportnity for the player.
If Melo wants to LA, and only La, even with two teams it could be:

Lakers: Nope, we going Yoot or want an in prime contract like Paul George (john and Ringo).
Clippers: All we got is Rivers and Crawford, love the guy, but its all we got.

What then? Reconcile with Melo? Is that even possible? we want him to move and he wants hold the ball. Sit him on the bench and let him towel up his head like Marbury?
"StarMelo"??? That don't work for anyone.

Best scenario for both is he goes to a team that wants to win now, but has yoot assets that won't affect the "Now".

Boston can win now if they want, or keep building. In my mind Horford and Isiah Thomas are nice pieces but not champioship core at the money they are due. Thomas will get paid this summer.
They got that darn pick!!! They can do a lot of things and not need to trade for melo. Miami is my Dark Horse landing spot for him. But if La La is making movies............ Where does the kid go?

Anger sells, don't buy!
fwk00
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4/21/2017  12:30 PM
Nalod wrote:Does anyone really know how NTC really work? IS there a rule that a player must give more than one destination? If not it really can diminish the value or opportnity for the player.
If Melo wants to LA, and only La, even with two teams it could be:

Lakers: Nope, we going Yoot or want an in prime contract like Paul George (john and Ringo).
Clippers: All we got is Rivers and Crawford, love the guy, but its all we got.

What then? Reconcile with Melo? Is that even possible? we want him to move and he wants hold the ball. Sit him on the bench and let him towel up his head like Marbury?
"StarMelo"??? That don't work for anyone.

Best scenario for both is he goes to a team that wants to win now, but has yoot assets that won't affect the "Now".

Boston can win now if they want, or keep building. In my mind Horford and Isiah Thomas are nice pieces but not champioship core at the money they are due. Thomas will get paid this summer.
They got that darn pick!!! They can do a lot of things and not need to trade for melo. Miami is my Dark Horse landing spot for him. But if La La is making movies............ Where does the kid go?

Well, Melo may want to spend more time with his daughter in Chicago - so that's one destination.

A Boston deal would be a blockbuster. Boston would really have some firepower and Thomas is the leader Melo needs to be productive. That's a trade in which NY arms a competitor BUT, BUT, BUT the assets are there for a swap. Boston's assets are system guys who buy in - the Knicks would look more like this year's Boston team - not so bad.

Another team, Philly, may have a case of draft fatigue. Though not a competitor this year, add Melo and the dynamic changes. The trade would absolutely require Philly's first round pick. The downside is that NY would likely take on some health-risk players - my guess, something along the lines of Bayless, Okafor,and Richaun Holmes.

Also can't help but feel Miami would be on the potential trade list.

Nalod
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4/21/2017  1:36 PM
fwk00 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Does anyone really know how NTC really work? IS there a rule that a player must give more than one destination? If not it really can diminish the value or opportnity for the player.
If Melo wants to LA, and only La, even with two teams it could be:

Lakers: Nope, we going Yoot or want an in prime contract like Paul George (john and Ringo).
Clippers: All we got is Rivers and Crawford, love the guy, but its all we got.

What then? Reconcile with Melo? Is that even possible? we want him to move and he wants hold the ball. Sit him on the bench and let him towel up his head like Marbury?
"StarMelo"??? That don't work for anyone.

Best scenario for both is he goes to a team that wants to win now, but has yoot assets that won't affect the "Now".

Boston can win now if they want, or keep building. In my mind Horford and Isiah Thomas are nice pieces but not champioship core at the money they are due. Thomas will get paid this summer.
They got that darn pick!!! They can do a lot of things and not need to trade for melo. Miami is my Dark Horse landing spot for him. But if La La is making movies............ Where does the kid go?

Well, Melo may want to spend more time with his daughter in Chicago - so that's one destination.

A Boston deal would be a blockbuster. Boston would really have some firepower and Thomas is the leader Melo needs to be productive. That's a trade in which NY arms a competitor BUT, BUT, BUT the assets are there for a swap. Boston's assets are system guys who buy in - the Knicks would look more like this year's Boston team - not so bad.

Another team, Philly, may have a case of draft fatigue. Though not a competitor this year, add Melo and the dynamic changes. The trade would absolutely require Philly's first round pick. The downside is that NY would likely take on some health-risk players - my guess, something along the lines of Bayless, Okafor,and Richaun Holmes.

Also can't help but feel Miami would be on the potential trade list.

You meant Rose has a daughter in Chicago?

Boston will and should try for Gordon Haywood before any trade for Melo.

Anger sells, don't buy!
fwk00
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4/21/2017  2:33 PM
Nalod wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Does anyone really know how NTC really work? IS there a rule that a player must give more than one destination? If not it really can diminish the value or opportnity for the player.
If Melo wants to LA, and only La, even with two teams it could be:

Lakers: Nope, we going Yoot or want an in prime contract like Paul George (john and Ringo).
Clippers: All we got is Rivers and Crawford, love the guy, but its all we got.

What then? Reconcile with Melo? Is that even possible? we want him to move and he wants hold the ball. Sit him on the bench and let him towel up his head like Marbury?
"StarMelo"??? That don't work for anyone.

Best scenario for both is he goes to a team that wants to win now, but has yoot assets that won't affect the "Now".

Boston can win now if they want, or keep building. In my mind Horford and Isiah Thomas are nice pieces but not champioship core at the money they are due. Thomas will get paid this summer.
They got that darn pick!!! They can do a lot of things and not need to trade for melo. Miami is my Dark Horse landing spot for him. But if La La is making movies............ Where does the kid go?

Well, Melo may want to spend more time with his daughter in Chicago - so that's one destination.

A Boston deal would be a blockbuster. Boston would really have some firepower and Thomas is the leader Melo needs to be productive. That's a trade in which NY arms a competitor BUT, BUT, BUT the assets are there for a swap. Boston's assets are system guys who buy in - the Knicks would look more like this year's Boston team - not so bad.

Another team, Philly, may have a case of draft fatigue. Though not a competitor this year, add Melo and the dynamic changes. The trade would absolutely require Philly's first round pick. The downside is that NY would likely take on some health-risk players - my guess, something along the lines of Bayless, Okafor,and Richaun Holmes.

Also can't help but feel Miami would be on the potential trade list.

You meant Rose has a daughter in Chicago?

Boston will and should try for Gordon Haywood before any trade for Melo.

Melo is expecting a daughter as well based on the latest reports.

Boston will do fine. But they have so many draft picks and players-in-waiting that they'll have to shed a few and likely not resign whoever is expiring. It will be possible to maybe pick up a decent bench asset this summer via Boston if the Melo thing doesn't work out.

Nalod
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5/1/2017  10:40 AM
Celtics took care of Chicago!
I suppose Thomas sisters passing was a shock for all.
The Bulls suck, pretty simple.

Since its all related:

bulls lose to Celts.....Bulls should want melo.
Boston Beats WiZ......Wiz should want Melo.
Clips lose agains, They should want Melo.
Miami can move Bosh, they should want melo.

Hopfully there is a market for melo in places he would want to play in.

Anger sells, don't buy!
martin
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5/1/2017  10:46 AM
Nalod wrote:Celtics took care of Chicago!
I suppose Thomas sisters passing was a shock for all.
The Bulls suck, pretty simple.

Since its all related:

bulls lose to Celts.....Bulls should want melo.
Boston Beats WiZ......Wiz should want Melo.
Clips lose agains, They should want Melo.
Miami can move Bosh, they should want melo.

Hopfully there is a market for melo in places he would want to play in.

Rondo a big factor!

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Nalod
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5/1/2017  10:51 AM
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Celtics took care of Chicago!
I suppose Thomas sisters passing was a shock for all.
The Bulls suck, pretty simple.

Since its all related:

bulls lose to Celts.....Bulls should want melo.
Boston Beats WiZ......Wiz should want Melo.
Clips lose agains, They should want Melo.
Miami can move Bosh, they should want melo.

Hopfully there is a market for melo in places he would want to play in.

Rondo a big factor!



He was, but could he have carried them all the way? Rondo was brilliant and he has done it before.
But we talking 'bout Rondo!!!!
Injuries count. Chyna Thomas factored in to some degree. I just figured Grant and RoPez would have carried them!
After all, from what I read around here, they are truley the back bone of the franchise!
Anger sells, don't buy!
EnySpree
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5/1/2017  10:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/1/2017  10:55 AM
martin wrote:
Nalod wrote:Celtics took care of Chicago!
I suppose Thomas sisters passing was a shock for all.
The Bulls suck, pretty simple.

Since its all related:

bulls lose to Celts.....Bulls should want melo.
Boston Beats WiZ......Wiz should want Melo.
Clips lose agains, They should want Melo.
Miami can move Bosh, they should want melo.

Hopfully there is a market for melo in places he would want to play in.

Rondo a big factor!

Thet were a different team without him on the court.

Boston plays so hard though... at a certain point they will need a guy that is immune to pressure. A guy that has no conscience when the game is on the line. Melo is that dude. You would hope that the other 11 guys would negate any bad habits from Melo.... but when they face LeBron... they are going to wish they had A guy like Melo. With everyone around him playing so hard like they are, Melo would be in his office

You know why I'm here....
BRIGGS
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5/1/2017  11:00 AM
LOL

Does anyone think the Knicks will get Avery Bradley Jae Crowder adn a pick for Carmelo--that is insane. Whether or not the Bost coaches mightve thought so at the trade deadline--the guy who counts--D Ainge---will NEVER do that. IF anything I think what we are seeing is stay the course bring in a high caliber draft pick--integrate both Brown and that draft pick in with the use of free agency. Boston DOES not need Carmelo

BRIGGS
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5/1/2017  11:03 AM
Nalod wrote:Celtics took care of Chicago!
I suppose Thomas sisters passing was a shock for all.
The Bulls suck, pretty simple.

Since its all related:

bulls lose to Celts.....Bulls should want melo.
Boston Beats WiZ......Wiz should want Melo.
Clips lose agains, They should want Melo.
Miami can move Bosh, they should want melo.

Hopfully there is a market for melo in places he would want to play in.

I think Miami for bosh and the 14th pick sounds good to me IF the heat will do it.

EnySpree
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5/1/2017  11:18 AM
BRIGGS wrote:LOL

Does anyone think the Knicks will get Avery Bradley Jae Crowder adn a pick for Carmelo--that is insane. Whether or not the Bost coaches mightve thought so at the trade deadline--the guy who counts--D Ainge---will NEVER do that. IF anything I think what we are seeing is stay the course bring in a high caliber draft pick--integrate both Brown and that draft pick in with the use of free agency. Boston DOES not need Carmelo

I think the trade to be made was Amir Johnson, Jerebko, Jalen Brown and a pick.... that ship is sailed... Boston would not be the same team without Avery and Crowder both gone.

You know why I'm here....
Nalod
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5/1/2017  11:24 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:Celtics took care of Chicago!
I suppose Thomas sisters passing was a shock for all.
The Bulls suck, pretty simple.

Since its all related:

bulls lose to Celts.....Bulls should want melo.
Boston Beats WiZ......Wiz should want Melo.
Clips lose agains, They should want Melo.
Miami can move Bosh, they should want melo.

Hopfully there is a market for melo in places he would want to play in.

I think Miami for bosh and the 14th pick sounds good to me IF the heat will do it.

Melo with his kicker is murder on a teams cap. I can't see boston doing that unless they feel they are close, and have a rookie off the bench they can develop.
What we have not seen in NY Is a well rested Melo in the playoffs. A guy like that whose minutes are managed can be a big asset in tight playoff ball. He is better than joe Johnson.
But that cap hit is murder.

I think I read basically a team that take son bosh takes on 35mil. THats a lot of money for a 14th pick. Even for Dolan.
We talking about a guy that extended Isiah, paid the legal bills AND 11mil to Anucha!
18mil for one year of Larry Brown.
TowelBury
Amare
Eddy
119mil plus tax for 23 win team TEN YEARS AGO. So is it too much? I have no idea. But if any team can do it, its the knicks!!!!
Logic says Miami has to come up a bit. Imagine moving a player and money for Yoot!!!!! What a concept!

Anger sells, don't buy!
NardDogNation
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5/1/2017  6:27 PM
Nalod wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
Nalod wrote:Celtics took care of Chicago!
I suppose Thomas sisters passing was a shock for all.
The Bulls suck, pretty simple.

Since its all related:

bulls lose to Celts.....Bulls should want melo.
Boston Beats WiZ......Wiz should want Melo.
Clips lose agains, They should want Melo.
Miami can move Bosh, they should want melo.

Hopfully there is a market for melo in places he would want to play in.

I think Miami for bosh and the 14th pick sounds good to me IF the heat will do it.

Melo with his kicker is murder on a teams cap. I can't see boston doing that unless they feel they are close, and have a rookie off the bench they can develop.
What we have not seen in NY Is a well rested Melo in the playoffs. A guy like that whose minutes are managed can be a big asset in tight playoff ball. He is better than joe Johnson.
But that cap hit is murder.

I think I read basically a team that take son bosh takes on 35mil. THats a lot of money for a 14th pick. Even for Dolan.
We talking about a guy that extended Isiah, paid the legal bills AND 11mil to Anucha!
18mil for one year of Larry Brown.
TowelBury
Amare
Eddy
119mil plus tax for 23 win team TEN YEARS AGO. So is it too much? I have no idea. But if any team can do it, its the knicks!!!!
Logic says Miami has to come up a bit. Imagine moving a player and money for Yoot!!!!! What a concept!

Melo's contract is relative to a team's financial circumstances. His salary is 30% of the cap, which still offers a decent amount of wiggle room to build a team if a given franchise was prudent with their decision making ($5.2 million per roster spot). A team like the Spurs could take him and be just fine.

ESOMKnicks
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5/1/2017  6:52 PM
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:LOL

Does anyone think the Knicks will get Avery Bradley Jae Crowder adn a pick for Carmelo--that is insane. Whether or not the Bost coaches mightve thought so at the trade deadline--the guy who counts--D Ainge---will NEVER do that. IF anything I think what we are seeing is stay the course bring in a high caliber draft pick--integrate both Brown and that draft pick in with the use of free agency. Boston DOES not need Carmelo

I think the trade to be made was Amir Johnson, Jerebko, Jalen Brown and a pick.... that ship is sailed... Boston would not be the same team without Avery and Crowder both gone.

Trading Melo at the deadline for expiring contracts and a high first round pick in 2017 and 2018 would have been a fantastic deal for the Knicks. But it would have required Ainge to really want to upend the Cavs and GSW this year by adding a fading All Star. Unfortunately for us, Ainge stayed prudent. We will never get anywhere close to such a package for Melo anymore, we needed a desperate trading partner for a decent deal, and no one is going to be desperate this summer.

wargames
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5/1/2017  7:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/1/2017  7:27 PM
ESOMKnicks wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:LOL

Does anyone think the Knicks will get Avery Bradley Jae Crowder adn a pick for Carmelo--that is insane. Whether or not the Bost coaches mightve thought so at the trade deadline--the guy who counts--D Ainge---will NEVER do that. IF anything I think what we are seeing is stay the course bring in a high caliber draft pick--integrate both Brown and that draft pick in with the use of free agency. Boston DOES not need Carmelo

I think the trade to be made was Amir Johnson, Jerebko, Jalen Brown and a pick.... that ship is sailed... Boston would not be the same team without Avery and Crowder both gone.

Trading Melo at the deadline for expiring contracts and a high first round pick in 2017 and 2018 would have been a fantastic deal for the Knicks. But it would have required Ainge to really want to upend the Cavs and GSW this year by adding a fading All Star. Unfortunately for us, Ainge stayed prudent. We will never get anywhere close to such a package for Melo anymore, we needed a desperate trading partner for a decent deal, and no one is going to be desperate this summer.

Clippers look pretty desperate to me and I think the better the Celtics do the more likely Ainge will double down for the right piece to make them complete.

For example a 3 way trade between Clippers, Knicks, and Celtics that sends Blake to Boston, Melo and Lee to the Clippers, and this years Nyets pick, the 2021 Clippers pick and austin Rivers to NY is mathematically feasible and the environment is actually helping to set it up.

Clippers need to make major changes to their team, but don't have the assets to bottom out, plus their best players are FA. They also need to shed some salary and try and replace Reddick who is likely going to leave. Melo and Lee helps them become a better team now and in 2 years they would have money to replace Melo with a younger player(s) when Melo becomes a FA.

Celtics might make it to the ECF and will not have enough fire power to beat the Cavs (and need a rebounder like Blake desperately). Ainge knows from experience that you got to go all in to win a championship when the opportunity presents itself. With all the best wing players likely not making the move to Boston, they can simply not resign Amir Johnson. Jarekbo, and Olynyk and trade Zeller along with this years draft pick for Blake in a S&T and they would be early favorites to win a championship. Hell the Cavs biggest weakness is their bigs and blake would destroy them. I don't even think the knicks would ask for next years pick which fits in line with Ainge's notorious stingyness.

Knicks want to go young and 2 picks and Austin Rivers would be a God send, especially if one of them is a top 3 and they can keep their top 7.

Next years line up

Rivers
Ntilkina
J. Jackson
Kp
Willy

and then they tank again and get Doncic to be their 6th man. Its a long shot, but if it worked the knicks would be built to become a top contender eventually as long as everyone stayed healthy.

NardDogNation
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5/1/2017  9:03 PM
ESOMKnicks wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:LOL

Does anyone think the Knicks will get Avery Bradley Jae Crowder adn a pick for Carmelo--that is insane. Whether or not the Bost coaches mightve thought so at the trade deadline--the guy who counts--D Ainge---will NEVER do that. IF anything I think what we are seeing is stay the course bring in a high caliber draft pick--integrate both Brown and that draft pick in with the use of free agency. Boston DOES not need Carmelo

I think the trade to be made was Amir Johnson, Jerebko, Jalen Brown and a pick.... that ship is sailed... Boston would not be the same team without Avery and Crowder both gone.

Trading Melo at the deadline for expiring contracts and a high first round pick in 2017 and 2018 would have been a fantastic deal for the Knicks. But it would have required Ainge to really want to upend the Cavs and GSW this year by adding a fading All Star. Unfortunately for us, Ainge stayed prudent. We will never get anywhere close to such a package for Melo anymore, we needed a desperate trading partner for a decent deal, and no one is going to be desperate this summer.

So...you don't think LAC will be desperate? You don't think CLE will be desperate? They clearly need a massive upgrade in talent to compete with the Warriors since they both are in win-now mode.

OT: Boston in a world of first round hurt? ...until next offseason?

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