KP in particular was doing well up until he tweaked his back. Watch these highlights and tell me that you can see a disgruntled young player who doesn't like the way he's being used in the system!!!

25 pts 8 rbs 3 asts 3 blks
20 pts 8 rbs 2 asts 3 blks
22 pts 7 rbs 3 asts 1 blks

Watching these games it's IMPOSSIBLE to believe that KP was somehow indignant about the direction of the team or the Triangle Offense!!! IMO it's clear that this is a reaction to what is going on with Melo and Phil and that's pretty much the sum total of the reaction KP had.

Denial consists of the refusal to accept a past or present reality and is most commonly employed to protect the host from their own negative traits; to protect them from the repeated memories of the negative actions of another or to avoid recognising their own guilt for past actions, thoughts or feelings.

It is a self defence mechanism employed by aspects of the subconscious mind in an attempt to protect emotional and psychological wellbeing.

Denial can be a scary and very sad thing to witness in someone that you love or care about; it is generally very difficult to help someone see the truth and especially for them to truly believe and accept that reality on a long term basis.

People deny responsibility every day for a number of things; but denial itself goes far deeper into the psyche than that. While people in denial generally still have the seed of truth still buried within their heads, they generally cannot believe that it is the truth even when confronted with it. This is due to the mind in effect rewriting or superimposing a more acceptable reality over the original memory.

Even with abject proof of an events occurrence, someone in denial is highly unlikely to fully accept the particular reality that their mind has decided they cannot cope with. They are more likely in that instance to use projection or minimisation or to continue or revert back to being in full blown denial.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Denial

TOP DEFINITION
Denial
Denial (psychological)

Denial consists of the refusal to accept a past or present reality and is most commonly employed to protect the host from their own negative traits; to protect them from the repeated memories of the negative actions of another or to avoid recognising their own guilt for past actions, thoughts or feelings.

It is a self defence mechanism employed by aspects of the subconscious mind in an attempt to protect emotional and psychological wellbeing.

Denial can be a scary and very sad thing to witness in someone that you love or care about; it is generally very difficult to help someone see the truth and especially for them to truly believe and accept that reality on a long term basis.

People deny responsibility every day for a number of things; but denial itself goes far deeper into the psyche than that. While people in denial generally still have the seed of truth still buried within their heads, they generally cannot believe that it is the truth even when confronted with it. This is due to the mind in effect rewriting or superimposing a more acceptable reality over the original memory.

Even with abject proof of an events occurrence, someone in denial is highly unlikely to fully accept the particular reality that their mind has decided they cannot cope with. They are more likely in that instance to use projection or minimisation or to continue or revert back to being in full blown denial.

As usual you can't refute the actual evidence but want to sidetrack the conversation. KP was doing well and if not for his back tweak he likely continues to do well along with his younger mates. KP simply needs some time to get over the idea of not having Melo with him.

KP will be MORE THAN fine without Melo in time. He'll come to realize this but for now he's got some hurt feelings which is understandable but let's not conflate the Melo issue with how KP was actually playing before the end of the year.

KP was rolling before he tweaked his back!!! The young players were gaining confidence! The real POISON element is Melo and his selfishness. We don't need that kind of bad example for the young players on this team. You can't find any support for the younger players being against the way Jeff was using them. PLEASE try to find evidence in any of the game footage that shows they weren't playing enthusiastically!

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Denial

TOP DEFINITION
Denial
Denial (psychological)

Denial consists of the refusal to accept a past or present reality and is most commonly employed to protect the host from their own negative traits; to protect them from the repeated memories of the negative actions of another or to avoid recognising their own guilt for past actions, thoughts or feelings.

It is a self defence mechanism employed by aspects of the subconscious mind in an attempt to protect emotional and psychological wellbeing.

Denial can be a scary and very sad thing to witness in someone that you love or care about; it is generally very difficult to help someone see the truth and especially for them to truly believe and accept that reality on a long term basis.

People deny responsibility every day for a number of things; but denial itself goes far deeper into the psyche than that. While people in denial generally still have the seed of truth still buried within their heads, they generally cannot believe that it is the truth even when confronted with it. This is due to the mind in effect rewriting or superimposing a more acceptable reality over the original memory.

Even with abject proof of an events occurrence, someone in denial is highly unlikely to fully accept the particular reality that their mind has decided they cannot cope with. They are more likely in that instance to use projection or minimisation or to continue or revert back to being in full blown denial.

As usual you can't refute the actual evidence but want to sidetrack the conversation. KP was doing well and if not for his back tweak he likely continues to do well along with his younger mates. KP simply needs some time to get over the idea of not having Melo with him.

KP will be MORE THAN fine without Melo in time. He'll come to realize this but for now he's got some hurt feelings which is understandable but let's not conflate the Melo issue with how KP was actually playing before the end of the year.

KP was rolling before he tweaked his back!!! The young players were gaining confidence! The real POISON element is Melo and his selfishness. We don't need that kind of bad example for the young players on this team. You can't find any support for the younger players being against the way Jeff was using them. PLEASE try to find evidence in any of the game footage that shows they weren't playing enthusiastically!

Well you seem to be in denial about the Exit meeting...Can there be a more extreme example of rebuffing Phil other than making a public statement which is in no one's interest?? KP and Calderon asked Fisher to implement more PnR in the offense last year, in which Fisher complied, and was later fired...Rambis said Fisher didn't stick to the plan in an interview later that year...You are in denial about the outcome of the Nov. 20th meeting where the Knicks players, coaches and (PHIL, who said nothing then)change course on playing style and was winning before Phil leveled his media attack against the messenger or their leader, I'm assuming, Melo..It's a notorious tactic to put down descension and the like..The only time he spoke to the media the entire year by the way...

But you make up scenarios about Melo that everyone should accept without proof...That, by the way, is addressed in the reality portion of denial..

nixluva wrote:

sidsanders wrote:how is how he played proof he is NOT happy about the direction the team is going though? he could be doing what a real pro does, his job on the court and also still not pleased with the off the court items. his stance on this is something he feels in his head and may not be revealed in play. his actions on skipping the exit int can be viewed as "proof" in the direction he is indeed not pleased. only he can say for sure.

So what was the specific issue that KP would've had before the Exit Interviews? He openly stated that he was happy about the move to more Triangle. He had some really strong games to close the year before he tweaked his back. There was NOTHING to indicate that he was in OPEN REBELLION against the Triangle as Woj made the central issue in his article!!!

KP is upset about the Melo vs Phil thing! I don't agree with Woj that this is based on the use of the Triangle.

how would i know? i am not trying to figure out whats going on in the mind of a kid i dont know about a situation none of us are operating in. thats why i said: "only he can say for sure". on court actions can show hes trying to be a professional. it does not necessarily show what he really thinks about whats happening around him. if he says otherwise, fine.

sidsanders wrote:

nixluva wrote:

sidsanders wrote:how is how he played proof he is NOT happy about the direction the team is going though? he could be doing what a real pro does, his job on the court and also still not pleased with the off the court items. his stance on this is something he feels in his head and may not be revealed in play. his actions on skipping the exit int can be viewed as "proof" in the direction he is indeed not pleased. only he can say for sure.

So what was the specific issue that KP would've had before the Exit Interviews? He openly stated that he was happy about the move to more Triangle. He had some really strong games to close the year before he tweaked his back. There was NOTHING to indicate that he was in OPEN REBELLION against the Triangle as Woj made the central issue in his article!!!

KP is upset about the Melo vs Phil thing! I don't agree with Woj that this is based on the use of the Triangle.

how would i know? i am not trying to figure out whats going on in the mind of a kid i dont know about a situation none of us are operating in. thats why i said: "only he can say for sure". on court actions can show hes trying to be a professional. it does not necessarily show what he really thinks about whats happening around him. if he says otherwise, fine.

What we do know is that Phil wants Melo GONE and that is causing strife right now. KP really likes Melo and they're friends. So the only natural conclusion is that KP is upset about how Melo and Phil are fighting. KP seems to have supported his friend Melo in this. This we can conclude by KP liking Melo's tweet.

Just using logic you can figure out that it's NOT TRUE that the team is in Open Rebellion against the Triangle. I can list the majority of the team as being Triangle capable and only a few of the stubborn Vets who resisted the Triangle and said insinuated that openly. Melo, BJ, Rose and to a lesser degree CLee. CLee did seem to come around later in the season and I don't think he's really got any issues with how Jeff is running the offense. CLee looked good with the Kids to close the year. He clearly gets the offense now.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Denial

TOP DEFINITION
Denial
Denial (psychological)

Denial consists of the refusal to accept a past or present reality and is most commonly employed to protect the host from their own negative traits; to protect them from the repeated memories of the negative actions of another or to avoid recognising their own guilt for past actions, thoughts or feelings.

It is a self defence mechanism employed by aspects of the subconscious mind in an attempt to protect emotional and psychological wellbeing.

Denial can be a scary and very sad thing to witness in someone that you love or care about; it is generally very difficult to help someone see the truth and especially for them to truly believe and accept that reality on a long term basis.

People deny responsibility every day for a number of things; but denial itself goes far deeper into the psyche than that. While people in denial generally still have the seed of truth still buried within their heads, they generally cannot believe that it is the truth even when confronted with it. This is due to the mind in effect rewriting or superimposing a more acceptable reality over the original memory.

Even with abject proof of an events occurrence, someone in denial is highly unlikely to fully accept the particular reality that their mind has decided they cannot cope with. They are more likely in that instance to use projection or minimisation or to continue or revert back to being in full blown denial.

As usual you can't refute the actual evidence but want to sidetrack the conversation. KP was doing well and if not for his back tweak he likely continues to do well along with his younger mates. KP simply needs some time to get over the idea of not having Melo with him.

KP will be MORE THAN fine without Melo in time. He'll come to realize this but for now he's got some hurt feelings which is understandable but let's not conflate the Melo issue with how KP was actually playing before the end of the year.

KP was rolling before he tweaked his back!!! The young players were gaining confidence! The real POISON element is Melo and his selfishness. We don't need that kind of bad example for the young players on this team. You can't find any support for the younger players being against the way Jeff was using them. PLEASE try to find evidence in any of the game footage that shows they weren't playing enthusiastically!

Only I actually presented PROOF whereas the article from Woj is all Hearsay and "League Sources". His conclusions don't even make any sense given that KP said he likes the Triangle and was glad the team was putting more emphasis on it. KP played strong in the last games before he tweaked his back. The younger players all played hard and enthusiastic to close the year. So where is the PROOF from Woj and other media when we have the actual 1st hand visual proof that the players were buying in???

The KP Exit Interview thing has still not been commented on by KP. We don't really know WHY he did what he did but given the fact that he's not Anti Triangle then it has to be something else besides that as Woj is trying to insinuate.

Him liking Melo's post? Probably a butt like. Bro, you have to move on form this. Lets talk about what else we can hope for. This is an obsession with you. Everyone in the NBA has said it. If KP says it, you will say its becuase Melo put him up to it. Holfresh is right on, your are in denial. I am sure that the NBA players association chiming in against Phil's comments is alos good news for us? I am sure all FA's think NY is a great place to improve their careers. I am sure that an Exec wants to be more involved in system implementation, is good for his coach. I am glad everything is good for you. But I think good for you, means we will lose another 100 plus games in the next 2 years and Phil will leave us with a huge mess and having to start ALL OVER.

All i've done is present the facts. KP is in favor of the Triangle! He's stated this openly. KP and the kids played enthusiastically as the season closed and the vets were not dominating the minutes. Nothing in the way the kids played indicated any kind of Open Rebellion as Woj described it. In fact the kids, KP included were playing better.

What team plays BETTER when they're unhappy and in Open Rebellion???

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Denial

TOP DEFINITION
Denial
Denial (psychological)

Denial consists of the refusal to accept a past or present reality and is most commonly employed to protect the host from their own negative traits; to protect them from the repeated memories of the negative actions of another or to avoid recognising their own guilt for past actions, thoughts or feelings.

It is a self defence mechanism employed by aspects of the subconscious mind in an attempt to protect emotional and psychological wellbeing.

Denial can be a scary and very sad thing to witness in someone that you love or care about; it is generally very difficult to help someone see the truth and especially for them to truly believe and accept that reality on a long term basis.

People deny responsibility every day for a number of things; but denial itself goes far deeper into the psyche than that. While people in denial generally still have the seed of truth still buried within their heads, they generally cannot believe that it is the truth even when confronted with it. This is due to the mind in effect rewriting or superimposing a more acceptable reality over the original memory.

Even with abject proof of an events occurrence, someone in denial is highly unlikely to fully accept the particular reality that their mind has decided they cannot cope with. They are more likely in that instance to use projection or minimisation or to continue or revert back to being in full blown denial.

As usual you can't refute the actual evidence but want to sidetrack the conversation. KP was doing well and if not for his back tweak he likely continues to do well along with his younger mates. KP simply needs some time to get over the idea of not having Melo with him.

KP will be MORE THAN fine without Melo in time. He'll come to realize this but for now he's got some hurt feelings which is understandable but let's not conflate the Melo issue with how KP was actually playing before the end of the year.

KP was rolling before he tweaked his back!!! The young players were gaining confidence! The real POISON element is Melo and his selfishness. We don't need that kind of bad example for the young players on this team. You can't find any support for the younger players being against the way Jeff was using them. PLEASE try to find evidence in any of the game footage that shows they weren't playing enthusiastically!

Well you seem to be in denial about the Exit meeting...Can there be a more extreme example of rebuffing Phil than making a public statement which is in no one's interest?? KP and Calderon asked Fisher to implement more PnR in the offense last year, in which Fisher complied, and was later fired...Rambis said Fisher didn't stick to the plan in an interview later that year...You are in denial about the outcome of the Nov. 20th meeting where the Knicks players, coaches and (PHIL, who said nothing then)change course on playing style and was winning before Phil leveled his media attack against the messenger, I'm assuming, Melo..The only time he spoke to the media the entire year by the way...

But you make up scenarios about Melo that everyone should accept without proof...

Jeff has PnR and Off Ball Early Motion in the offense and Phil APPROVED of this as he stated in his PRess Conference. You can see this in any of the games the Knicks played. If you can't recall just go rewatch the games on youtube and you can clearly see the elements that Jeff added.

KP is not rebelling because of the Triangle!!! You can't see anything in the way he played or any statements KP made to support this.

This is what Woj is trying to indicate:

Kristaps Porzingis made a stand about the unprofessionalism and routine chaos that has lorded over his work environment.

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPN’s Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.
Porzingis isn’t alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organization’s summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the team’s suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, there’s an open rebellion to the triangle – for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that it’s implementation has burdened upon everyone.

It isn’t only Jackson’s laborious organizational emails about the triangle – demands of emphasis on schooling players on the reverse pivot move, or the proper passing techniques – but his increasing insistence on the coaching staff and players that the obsolete offense become fully functional for the 2017-18 season.

How does Woj know what KP's reasons for skipping the meetinq were if KP hasn't openly stated his reasons? Now as i've said KP is probably very upset about the turmoil between Melo and Phil. Most of the other stuff Woj is pushing isn't supported by anything and appears to be the opinion of a few trouble makers on the Knicks.

Wojo probably have players, coaching staff, or KP himself, feeding him tidbit on the DLow as opposed to you grabbing anything Melo related out of thin air...You do have to admit he may be making more informed explanations than you are..

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Denial

TOP DEFINITION
Denial
Denial (psychological)

Denial consists of the refusal to accept a past or present reality and is most commonly employed to protect the host from their own negative traits; to protect them from the repeated memories of the negative actions of another or to avoid recognising their own guilt for past actions, thoughts or feelings.

It is a self defence mechanism employed by aspects of the subconscious mind in an attempt to protect emotional and psychological wellbeing.

Denial can be a scary and very sad thing to witness in someone that you love or care about; it is generally very difficult to help someone see the truth and especially for them to truly believe and accept that reality on a long term basis.

People deny responsibility every day for a number of things; but denial itself goes far deeper into the psyche than that. While people in denial generally still have the seed of truth still buried within their heads, they generally cannot believe that it is the truth even when confronted with it. This is due to the mind in effect rewriting or superimposing a more acceptable reality over the original memory.

Even with abject proof of an events occurrence, someone in denial is highly unlikely to fully accept the particular reality that their mind has decided they cannot cope with. They are more likely in that instance to use projection or minimisation or to continue or revert back to being in full blown denial.

As usual you can't refute the actual evidence but want to sidetrack the conversation. KP was doing well and if not for his back tweak he likely continues to do well along with his younger mates. KP simply needs some time to get over the idea of not having Melo with him.

KP will be MORE THAN fine without Melo in time. He'll come to realize this but for now he's got some hurt feelings which is understandable but let's not conflate the Melo issue with how KP was actually playing before the end of the year.

KP was rolling before he tweaked his back!!! The young players were gaining confidence! The real POISON element is Melo and his selfishness. We don't need that kind of bad example for the young players on this team. You can't find any support for the younger players being against the way Jeff was using them. PLEASE try to find evidence in any of the game footage that shows they weren't playing enthusiastically!

Well you seem to be in denial about the Exit meeting...Can there be a more extreme example of rebuffing Phil than making a public statement which is in no one's interest?? KP and Calderon asked Fisher to implement more PnR in the offense last year, in which Fisher complied, and was later fired...Rambis said Fisher didn't stick to the plan in an interview later that year...You are in denial about the outcome of the Nov. 20th meeting where the Knicks players, coaches and (PHIL, who said nothing then)change course on playing style and was winning before Phil leveled his media attack against the messenger, I'm assuming, Melo..The only time he spoke to the media the entire year by the way...

But you make up scenarios about Melo that everyone should accept without proof...

Jeff has PnR and Off Ball Early Motion in the offense and Phil APPROVED of this as he stated in his PRess Conference. You can see this in any of the games the Knicks played. If you can't recall just go rewatch the games on youtube and you can clearly see the elements that Jeff added.

KP is not rebelling because of the Triangle!!! You can't see anything in the way he played or any statements KP made to support this.

This is what Woj is trying to indicate:

Kristaps Porzingis made a stand about the unprofessionalism and routine chaos that has lorded over his work environment.

Porzingis passed on the exit interviews, as ESPN’s Ian Begley first reported, and league sources say Porzingis is planning a long trip back to Latvia that may not include a return to New York until closer to the start of training camp.
Porzingis isn’t alone. Players are privately fuming that they want no part of the organization’s summer slate of triangle offense regimen at the team’s suburban New York practice facility, league sources told The Vertical. In reality, there’s an open rebellion to the triangle – for the offense itself, and by extension, the discord and dysfunction that it’s implementation has burdened upon everyone.

It isn’t only Jackson’s laborious organizational emails about the triangle – demands of emphasis on schooling players on the reverse pivot move, or the proper passing techniques – but his increasing insistence on the coaching staff and players that the obsolete offense become fully functional for the 2017-18 season.

How does Woj know what KP's reasons for skipping the meetinq were if KP hasn't openly stated his reasons? Now as i've said KP is probably very upset about the turmoil between Melo and Phil. Most of the other stuff Woj is pushing isn't supported by anything and appears to be the opinion of a few trouble makers on the Knicks.

Wojo probably have players, coaching staff, or KP himself, feeding him tidbit on the DLow as opposed to you grabbing anything Melo related out of thin air...You do have to admit he may be making more informed explanations than you are..

Jeff's version of the Triangle is APPROVED by Phil. He said this clearly at his Press Conference. He was happy with how the younger players came together and gave max effort. They also used PnR and lots of Off Ball Motion early as opposed to getting right into the Side Triangle. This was clearly evident if anyone watched the Knicks final games. There was great Ball and Player movement and high energy on D. That's not a TEAM in Open Rebellion.

holfresh wrote:KP seems like a good dude and I hope this doesn't have any lasting repercussion in his young career...He should have gone to the exit meeting..Maybe this was a spontaneous event and a way to show how averse he and they are to Phil's meddling..Who knows, he doesn't like what's happening and this clearly illustrate it...Rose going AWOL and nothing comes of it sets a precedence...No matter how some spin it, leadership is lacking in this organization...

Mistakes were made in the still developing relationships between Phil and Jeff. Phil admitted this but the Media is going too far in trying to create a narrative that it's all coming apart. I see no evidence of this.

KP did something I think he will eventually apologize for but you can't conflate his skipping his Exit Meeting with a broader issue with the entire roster somehow being in Ope Rebellion as Woj puts it. That is him sensationalizing KP skipping his meeting into something worse.

The Draft, Free Agency and Summer League will bring new headlines and we'll have to see how things develop going into next season.