Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:The more I watch these playoffs, I'm glad Phil pulled the plug on this team.

Did he pull the plug after 29 games?

Whatever he did he did the right thing.

So we should just tank until Lebron, Curry, and Durant retire?

We should build a team. That has talent going forward. I think you guys know deep down what I'm saying is right. This should be looked as an opportunity to reload. Who knows the team being put together might compete for a championship down the road.

Is there anyone saying we shouldn't build a team that has talent going forward? Jeez.
What I'm not a fan of is praising Phil for tanking every year because all his moves backfired.

Praising Phil? What do you want the guy to do? He had limited resources to work with. This has nothing to do with praising him. I know he has made mistakes. Regardless he wasn't going to win a championship. This team could easily made the playoffs they were headed in that direction. The new plan going forward is something that I have embraced and it's the right plan for sustainable winning down the road.

Phils biggest mistake is not evaluating his top player properly.

$80 mil out of a 94 mil cap on Rose, Melo, Thomas, Lee, and Noah is an F-. That's all on Phil. What do I want him to do? Use the best available metrics as a piece of information when making decisions, or hire a GM who does and actually listen to that GM.
I would disagree that the team could have easily made the playoffs. They started 14-10 because they had a crazy number of lucky, close wins. They had a negative point differential, which means an almost inevitable correction to the W-L record. It was actually the same situation the prior year when the team was about 22-22.

Rose is off the books. He was a one year rental. Noah contract is bad but when he was playing he was producing double digit rebounds. Melo well like I said he didn't evaluate him properly mistakes made. But find me a flawless GM out there. While Phil took over a team of underachieving talent he has tried to build around Melo. When dealing from position of weakness that hand will only get back weakness in return. But you guys never say we got Holiday in the Rose deal. You guys never acknowledge his second round talent that he picks up this is the position he has been working from. One first rounder he gets a franchise type talent.

Yes mistakes made why harp in it because regardless of the mistakes it was a dead end result. There simply isn't enough talent out there to surpass the top two teams. I don't understand why harp on everything negative. See the positives.

Yes he has made it known that Melo should consider other teams the Knicks dir cation is different now. If you think he has hurt Melo's trade value that remains to be seen. I like the direction the team is headed and I know a lot like the direction. Only the impatient don't like the direction. The impatient approach is why we are in the mess to begin with.

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:The more I watch these playoffs, I'm glad Phil pulled the plug on this team.

Did he pull the plug after 29 games?

Whatever he did he did the right thing.

So we should just tank until Lebron, Curry, and Durant retire?

We should build a team. That has talent going forward. I think you guys know deep down what I'm saying is right. This should be looked as an opportunity to reload. Who knows the team being put together might compete for a championship down the road.

Is there anyone saying we shouldn't build a team that has talent going forward? Jeez.
What I'm not a fan of is praising Phil for tanking every year because all his moves backfired.

Praising Phil? What do you want the guy to do? He had limited resources to work with. This has nothing to do with praising him. I know he has made mistakes. Regardless he wasn't going to win a championship. This team could easily made the playoffs they were headed in that direction. The new plan going forward is something that I have embraced and it's the right plan for sustainable winning down the road.

Phils biggest mistake is not evaluating his top player properly.

$80 mil out of a 94 mil cap on Rose, Melo, Thomas, Lee, and Noah is an F-. That's all on Phil. What do I want him to do? Use the best available metrics as a piece of information when making decisions, or hire a GM who does and actually listen to that GM.
I would disagree that the team could have easily made the playoffs. They started 14-10 because they had a crazy number of lucky, close wins. They had a negative point differential, which means an almost inevitable correction to the W-L record. It was actually the same situation the prior year when the team was about 22-22.

Rose is off the books. He was a one year rental. Noah contract is bad but when he was playing he was producing double digit rebounds. Melo well like I said he didn't evaluate him properly mistakes made. But find me a flawless GM out there. While Phil took over a team of underachieving talent he has tried to build around Melo. When dealing from position of weakness that hand will only get back weakness in return. But you guys never say we got Holiday in the Rose deal. You guys never acknowledge his second round talent that he picks up this is the position he has been working from. One first rounder he gets a franchise type talent.

Yes mistakes made why harp in it because regardless of the mistakes it was a dead end result. There simply isn't enough talent out there to surpass the top two teams. I don't understand why harp on everything negative. See the positives.

Yes he has made it known that Melo should consider other teams the Knicks dir cation is different now. If you think he has hurt Melo's trade value that remains to be seen. I like the direction the team is headed and I know a lot like the direction. Only the impatient don't like the direction. The impatient approach is why we are in the mess to begin with.

yellowboy90 wrote:what an amazing effort and game by the celtics

It was very good comeback by the Celtics. The stepped it up defensively and they got physical with them. Also the change they made was really good. Make the Cavs go left. Irving is really good when going right but he becomes ok when going left. LeBron same you could see the Celtic over play the right hand and force the Cavs work Left.

TripleThreat wrote:

Vmart wrote:Yes mistakes made why harp in it....

Because these decisions IMPACT THE NEXT THREE YEARS OF THIS FRANCHISE AND THIS ROSTER. This isn't including the disaster of this current season in play.

The Knicks traded away THREE COST CONTROLLED YEARS of Jerian Grant. Whether or not Grant pans out doesn't change the issue that this is a negative decision from a marketplace standpoint. They also traded THREE BELOW MARKET CONTRACT YEARS of Robin Lopez. A durable player who played defense, played team ball, wanted to be here and the contract did not encompass his decline phase.

Noah burns at this cap for THREE MORE YEARS. If he's stretched, its SEVEN MORE YEARS at around 8-9 million a year.

Some of you guys act like this is the NY Jets, where they can just cut a guy on a prove it deal and move on the next season.

In a system where you only have a TWO ROUND DRAFT. There are limited number of trades possible, there are only a handful of FAs you can sign and get talent, every decision BECOMES CRITICAL.

This is not MLB, where you can have a 35 draft picks in a year. Or the NFL, where you overhaul 1/2 your roster any given season and rebuild in two years.

Think about it, the Knicks waited YEARS for Amare Stoudamires lousy contract to come off the books. Only to sign another bad contract guy IMMEDIATELY to inflict the exact same problem all over again.

Some of you guys want to push, well lets move on. YES, LET'S MOVE ON, IN THREE MORE YEARS. Three years in a pro sports timeline is AN ETERNITY.

The average NBA team has close to no margin for error.

A team with all the problems of the Knicks have EVEN LESS of a margin for error.

These are the kind of mistakes the cripple a team FOR HALF A DECADE. You know what will drive fans insane? That five years later, a guy like Phil Jackson has to make the moves and decisions he SHOULD HAVE MADE THE DAY HE WALKED THROUGH THE DOOR. It means all that losing and pain and fan suffering is for nothing.

When your not winning you have to try and shuffle players. Try and find the right combination that will prove to be successful. Phil since day one has been dealing from a point of weakness. The team he took over was filled with role players. With a good player in Melo. The first year was a tank job which the team needed badly and the result was KP. Signing Melo was probably his biggest mistake and giving him a NTC compounded the mistake that I totally agree with. Other than that all the deals were basically side ways deal. I didn't like the Hardaway deal at all but Hardaway wasn't killing it here he was sent down to DL by the Hawks.

Lopez and Grant deal for Rose was a shot to help Melo and adding Noah was a good signing but bad contract. I still feel Noah bring something to the table that was lacking and that was passion for passing and Rebounding. Health was a concern and it did bite Phil in the back. Adding a former MVP and DPOY haw can you fault him.

Other than that what has been so bad about Phil in his time here he might have pushed triangle basketball but it has won him a lot of games over his coaching career and he wants a coach to enjoy that type of winning. Which leads me to talent the Knicks haven't had the necessary talent to implement his system. Melo has proven that he isn't a system player and basically all system don't work for him but a post up system and isolation system. In today's basketball who runs that no one everyone is doing spread offense playing monkey in the middle at the three point line.

Let Phil implement his plan of action and let him do his job. Root for the Knicks to succeed and not fail. As far his Melo angle I don't like it like anyone else but he has to do something to stir the pot and get Melo to move his feet. Phil ultimatum to Melo is stay or go but do it because you want a championship. Melo is a very content player no longer interested in giving 100% on the court. KP drama he has turned out to be a drama queen whether he is the king with no decision making skills and relies on his posse to speak for him then that is KP creating the drama. KP should state what he feels straight to Phil.

I like what Phil is doing and this team needs to rebuild properly I have been saying this for quite sometime. And now it's finally time for it to happen because the Melo era will not bring a championship to NY and you can't say Phil didn't try. Just like Walsh or Grunwald or anyone else he has made mistakes there is no doubt about it. Like I said name me a perfect Predident of Basketball.

Chandler wrote:If finals are cavs versus GS like it looks it will be I'm fairly sure I'll catch up on my reading instead

Maybe I'll write a letter to the stooge commissioner and compliment him on the fine job he is doing building a league w a few superteams and a sea of mediocrity compounded by no accountability

It didn't feel the same when the superteams were the celts lakers and sixers for some reason, or even the bulls

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:The more I watch these playoffs, I'm glad Phil pulled the plug on this team.

Did he pull the plug after 29 games?

Whatever he did he did the right thing.

So we should just tank until Lebron, Curry, and Durant retire?

We should build a team. That has talent going forward. I think you guys know deep down what I'm saying is right. This should be looked as an opportunity to reload. Who knows the team being put together might compete for a championship down the road.

Is there anyone saying we shouldn't build a team that has talent going forward? Jeez.
What I'm not a fan of is praising Phil for tanking every year because all his moves backfired.

Praising Phil? What do you want the guy to do? He had limited resources to work with. This has nothing to do with praising him. I know he has made mistakes. Regardless he wasn't going to win a championship. This team could easily made the playoffs they were headed in that direction. The new plan going forward is something that I have embraced and it's the right plan for sustainable winning down the road.

Phils biggest mistake is not evaluating his top player properly.

$80 mil out of a 94 mil cap on Rose, Melo, Thomas, Lee, and Noah is an F-. That's all on Phil. What do I want him to do? Use the best available metrics as a piece of information when making decisions, or hire a GM who does and actually listen to that GM.
I would disagree that the team could have easily made the playoffs. They started 14-10 because they had a crazy number of lucky, close wins. They had a negative point differential, which means an almost inevitable correction to the W-L record. It was actually the same situation the prior year when the team was about 22-22.

Rose is off the books. He was a one year rental. Noah contract is bad but when he was playing he was producing double digit rebounds. Melo well like I said he didn't evaluate him properly mistakes made. But find me a flawless GM out there. While Phil took over a team of underachieving talent he has tried to build around Melo. When dealing from position of weakness that hand will only get back weakness in return. But you guys never say we got Holiday in the Rose deal. You guys never acknowledge his second round talent that he picks up this is the position he has been working from. One first rounder he gets a franchise type talent.

Yes mistakes made why harp in it because regardless of the mistakes it was a dead end result. There simply isn't enough talent out there to surpass the top two teams. I don't understand why harp on everything negative. See the positives.

Yes he has made it known that Melo should consider other teams the Knicks dir cation is different now. If you think he has hurt Melo's trade value that remains to be seen. I like the direction the team is headed and I know a lot like the direction. Only the impatient don't like the direction. The impatient approach is why we are in the mess to begin with.

I definitely have given credit where credit is due. I've said so far Phil has done a terrible job with trades and free agency but an excellent job with drafting (which sounds like a description more fitting for an advanced drafting scout). I don't think impatience has anything to do with the team's mess necessarily, or at least it's not the root of the problem. It has more to do with ignoring or at least not using the advanced stats in any sensible way. Those metrics made it clear in advance that all of Phil's major signings and trades were bad gambles.

Bonn .. u are right Phil did a terrible job all the way around .. as a famous HOF Coach Phil hired the terrible coaching staff in the NBA the past 3 years, all Phils trades were terrible as if owner Dolan made the trade, all Phil's signings were terrible and ridiculous from the first Melo's $124M to the last $72M to Noah. And Phil's draft picks were terrible too .. KP talent is all HYPE without any type of winning tools in his skills, u can blame KP performance on poor coaching development .. but KP never had a low post or inside game for me to believe a 7.3 KP was a good prospect to select in the draft with the first 10 picks.
I do not see KP hype performance ever being a All-Star .. KAT will be a all-star .. Embiid will be a all-star .. and what I seen from Simmons in college will become a all-star .. KP undeveloped hype talent is not a NBA starter unless the coach plans are TANKING!

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:The more I watch these playoffs, I'm glad Phil pulled the plug on this team.

Did he pull the plug after 29 games?

Whatever he did he did the right thing.

So we should just tank until Lebron, Curry, and Durant retire?

We should build a team. That has talent going forward. I think you guys know deep down what I'm saying is right. This should be looked as an opportunity to reload. Who knows the team being put together might compete for a championship down the road.

Is there anyone saying we shouldn't build a team that has talent going forward? Jeez.
What I'm not a fan of is praising Phil for tanking every year because all his moves backfired.

Praising Phil? What do you want the guy to do? He had limited resources to work with. This has nothing to do with praising him. I know he has made mistakes. Regardless he wasn't going to win a championship. This team could easily made the playoffs they were headed in that direction. The new plan going forward is something that I have embraced and it's the right plan for sustainable winning down the road.

Phils biggest mistake is not evaluating his top player properly.

$80 mil out of a 94 mil cap on Rose, Melo, Thomas, Lee, and Noah is an F-. That's all on Phil. What do I want him to do? Use the best available metrics as a piece of information when making decisions, or hire a GM who does and actually listen to that GM.
I would disagree that the team could have easily made the playoffs. They started 14-10 because they had a crazy number of lucky, close wins. They had a negative point differential, which means an almost inevitable correction to the W-L record. It was actually the same situation the prior year when the team was about 22-22.

Rose is off the books. He was a one year rental. Noah contract is bad but when he was playing he was producing double digit rebounds. Melo well like I said he didn't evaluate him properly mistakes made. But find me a flawless GM out there. While Phil took over a team of underachieving talent he has tried to build around Melo. When dealing from position of weakness that hand will only get back weakness in return. But you guys never say we got Holiday in the Rose deal. You guys never acknowledge his second round talent that he picks up this is the position he has been working from. One first rounder he gets a franchise type talent.

Yes mistakes made why harp in it because regardless of the mistakes it was a dead end result. There simply isn't enough talent out there to surpass the top two teams. I don't understand why harp on everything negative. See the positives.

Yes he has made it known that Melo should consider other teams the Knicks dir cation is different now. If you think he has hurt Melo's trade value that remains to be seen. I like the direction the team is headed and I know a lot like the direction. Only the impatient don't like the direction. The impatient approach is why we are in the mess to begin with.

I definitely have given credit where credit is due. I've said so far Phil has done a terrible job with trades and free agency but an excellent job with drafting (which sounds like a description more fitting for an advanced drafting scout). I don't think impatience has anything to do with the team's mess necessarily, or at least it's not the root of the problem. It has more to do with ignoring or at least not using the advanced stats in any sensible way. Those metrics made it clear in advance that all of Phil's major signings and trades were bad gambles.

Bonn .. u are right Phil did a terrible job all the way around .. as a famous HOF Coach Phil hired the terrible coaching staff in the NBA the past 3 years, all Phils trades were terrible as if owner Dolan made the trade, all Phil's signings were terrible and ridiculous from the first Melo's $124M to the last $72M to Noah. And Phil's draft picks were terrible too .. KP talent is all HYPE without any type of winning tools in his skills, u can blame KP performance on poor coaching development .. but KP never had a low post or inside game for me to believe a 7.3 KP was a good prospect to select in the draft with the first 10 picks.
I do not see KP hype performance ever being a All-Star .. KAT will be a all-star .. Embiid will be a all-star .. and what I seen from Simmons in college will become a all-star .. KP undeveloped hype talent is not a NBA starter unless the coach plans are TANKING!

My only problem with KP is his inefficiency. There is no way he should be shooting less that 50% from the floor. He is mimicking Melo's game in every facet. I just don't see how a 7'3 skilled player shoots so poorly. Ten feet in he should be killing it at 60%+.

He shoots a lot of jumpers away from the basket. Few 7'3 guys do that.

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:The more I watch these playoffs, I'm glad Phil pulled the plug on this team.

Did he pull the plug after 29 games?

Whatever he did he did the right thing.

So we should just tank until Lebron, Curry, and Durant retire?

We should build a team. That has talent going forward. I think you guys know deep down what I'm saying is right. This should be looked as an opportunity to reload. Who knows the team being put together might compete for a championship down the road.

Is there anyone saying we shouldn't build a team that has talent going forward? Jeez.
What I'm not a fan of is praising Phil for tanking every year because all his moves backfired.

Praising Phil? What do you want the guy to do? He had limited resources to work with. This has nothing to do with praising him. I know he has made mistakes. Regardless he wasn't going to win a championship. This team could easily made the playoffs they were headed in that direction. The new plan going forward is something that I have embraced and it's the right plan for sustainable winning down the road.

Phils biggest mistake is not evaluating his top player properly.

$80 mil out of a 94 mil cap on Rose, Melo, Thomas, Lee, and Noah is an F-. That's all on Phil. What do I want him to do? Use the best available metrics as a piece of information when making decisions, or hire a GM who does and actually listen to that GM.
I would disagree that the team could have easily made the playoffs. They started 14-10 because they had a crazy number of lucky, close wins. They had a negative point differential, which means an almost inevitable correction to the W-L record. It was actually the same situation the prior year when the team was about 22-22.

Rose is off the books. He was a one year rental. Noah contract is bad but when he was playing he was producing double digit rebounds. Melo well like I said he didn't evaluate him properly mistakes made. But find me a flawless GM out there. While Phil took over a team of underachieving talent he has tried to build around Melo. When dealing from position of weakness that hand will only get back weakness in return. But you guys never say we got Holiday in the Rose deal. You guys never acknowledge his second round talent that he picks up this is the position he has been working from. One first rounder he gets a franchise type talent.

Yes mistakes made why harp in it because regardless of the mistakes it was a dead end result. There simply isn't enough talent out there to surpass the top two teams. I don't understand why harp on everything negative. See the positives.

Yes he has made it known that Melo should consider other teams the Knicks dir cation is different now. If you think he has hurt Melo's trade value that remains to be seen. I like the direction the team is headed and I know a lot like the direction. Only the impatient don't like the direction. The impatient approach is why we are in the mess to begin with.

I definitely have given credit where credit is due. I've said so far Phil has done a terrible job with trades and free agency but an excellent job with drafting (which sounds like a description more fitting for an advanced drafting scout). I don't think impatience has anything to do with the team's mess necessarily, or at least it's not the root of the problem. It has more to do with ignoring or at least not using the advanced stats in any sensible way. Those metrics made it clear in advance that all of Phil's major signings and trades were bad gambles.

Bonn .. u are right Phil did a terrible job all the way around .. as a famous HOF Coach Phil hired the terrible coaching staff in the NBA the past 3 years, all Phils trades were terrible as if owner Dolan made the trade, all Phil's signings were terrible and ridiculous from the first Melo's $124M to the last $72M to Noah. And Phil's draft picks were terrible too .. KP talent is all HYPE without any type of winning tools in his skills, u can blame KP performance on poor coaching development .. but KP never had a low post or inside game for me to believe a 7.3 KP was a good prospect to select in the draft with the first 10 picks.
I do not see KP hype performance ever being a All-Star .. KAT will be a all-star .. Embiid will be a all-star .. and what I seen from Simmons in college will become a all-star .. KP undeveloped hype talent is not a NBA starter unless the coach plans are TANKING!

My only problem with KP is his inefficiency. There is no way he should be shooting less that 50% from the floor. He is mimicking Melo's game in every facet. I just don't see how a 7'3 skilled player shoots so poorly. Ten feet in he should be killing it at 60%+.

At 7.3 height KP should have established 2 to 4 moves within 15 feet from the basket within the two seasons in the NBA. KP 7.3 height shoots over the majority of NBA players on a 15 foot jumpshot. Its hard to understand why KP cant shoot above a 50% fga