.592TS%

123 offensive rating.

.438 3pt percentage

Bravo, Phil

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/espnsteinline/status/847681668466917377

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Ricky Rubio would've been the best young point guard in a Knicks uniform since Mark Jackson. It's unbelievable that Phil had that offer on the table and he screwed it up. You absolutely throw in KOQ or Kuz to get that deal done.

so wait- was the offer Rose & KOQ for Rubio?

Given that Rose is going to be a FA, I think a fair deal.

I guess I can understand being trigger shy - none of his deals have really worked out.

But, even for a rebuilding franchise, a $12M per year PG would have been a pretty solid deal.

The story I saw is that Wolves approached the Knicks about the deal. It's hazy if the Knicks asked for too much back, one report said Phil wanted Bjelica or Muhhamad thrown in, one said the Wolves wanted KOQ or Kuz. Knicks backed away, only to call the Wolves back to try to do the deal straight up Rose for Rubio five minutes before the deadline and the Wolves got cold feet and backed out. Many people around the league including Woj and Stein said the Wolves would've done the deal earlier in the week or even earlier on deadline day. That's a deal you make as soon as you get the offer imho.

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Ricky Rubio would've been the best young point guard in a Knicks uniform since Mark Jackson. It's unbelievable that Phil had that offer on the table and he screwed it up. You absolutely throw in KOQ or Kuz to get that deal done.

so wait- was the offer Rose & KOQ for Rubio?

Given that Rose is going to be a FA, I think a fair deal.

I guess I can understand being trigger shy - none of his deals have really worked out.

But, even for a rebuilding franchise, a $12M per year PG would have been a pretty solid deal.

The story I saw is that Wolves approached the Knicks about the deal. It's hazy if the Knicks asked for too much back, one report said Phil wanted Bjelica or Muhhamad thrown in, one said the Wolves wanted KOQ or Kuz. Knicks backed away, only to call the Wolves back to try to do the deal straight up Rose for Rubio five minutes before the deadline and the Wolves got cold feet and backed out. Many people around the league including Woj and Stein said the Wolves would've done the deal earlier in the week or even earlier on deadline day. That's a deal you make as soon as you get the offer imho.

If true, another reason not to renew Phil.

Even if Rubio continued to put up middling numbers, he is like Lopez - a better part of a team that what his numbers show.

And a good defender at the PG. Le sigh. Just frustrating

meloshouldgo wrote:Revisionist history based on speculation rather than facts. One thing you can be sure of though, if we had made the trade Malik Monk would have been a pipe dream. We would be picking around 15th. Or he would have had a few rough games at first and people would be crucifying Phil for getting a PG that can't shoot. When the intent is to knitpick no matter what it doesn't matter what you do.

BS - this team is a mess, they would've won maybe 2 or 3 more games max. They could still tank, this would be a trade for the future.

If it's speculation why is Stein mentioning it? Of the ESPN guys, he almost never trolls the Knicks. He knew it was a real deal on the table.

Anyone who didn't dance a jig if they traded Rose for Rubio doesn't know much about basketball.

Rubio
Monk / CLee
Melo / Lance
KP
Willy

That's the bones of a good team. Maybe you move Melo for Austin Rivers and have a good young guard corps for the first time in like 25 years

meloshouldgo wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Revisionist history based on speculation rather than facts. One thing you can be sure of though, if we had made the trade Malik Monk would have been a pipe dream. We would be picking around 15th. Or he would have had a few rough games at first and people would be crucifying Phil for getting a PG that can't shoot. When the intent is to knitpick no matter what it doesn't matter what you do.

BS - this team is a mess, they would've won maybe 2 or 3 more games max. They could still tank, this would be a trade for the future.

If it's speculation why is Stein mentioning it? Of the ESPN guys, he almost never trolls the Knicks. He knew it was a real deal on the table.

Anyone who didn't dance a jig if they traded Rose for Rubio doesn't know much about basketball.

Rubio
Monk / CLee
Melo / Lance
KP
Willy

That's the bones of a good team. Maybe you move Melo for Austin Rivers and have a good young guard corps for the first time in like 25 years

His job is to sell clicks. I dont think Thibs confides in him what he would have done for sure. Its really clear where the actual BS is. Nothing with Melo in it will ever be avoid team, you may not be able to glean that from watching this career loser for six years but that's on you.

His tweet doesn't link to an article. There's no click to sell. Just a basketball reporter's observation.

Also, I say in the post you just quoted that I'd be fine to trade Melo for Austin Rivers. But, I really have very little faith in Phil to get a good Melo deal done if he can't pull off an obvious and easy deal like Rubio for Rose.

crzymdups wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Revisionist history based on speculation rather than facts. One thing you can be sure of though, if we had made the trade Malik Monk would have been a pipe dream. We would be picking around 15th. Or he would have had a few rough games at first and people would be crucifying Phil for getting a PG that can't shoot. When the intent is to knitpick no matter what it doesn't matter what you do.

BS - this team is a mess, they would've won maybe 2 or 3 more games max. They could still tank, this would be a trade for the future.

If it's speculation why is Stein mentioning it? Of the ESPN guys, he almost never trolls the Knicks. He knew it was a real deal on the table.

Anyone who didn't dance a jig if they traded Rose for Rubio doesn't know much about basketball.

Rubio
Monk / CLee
Melo / Lance
KP
Willy

That's the bones of a good team. Maybe you move Melo for Austin Rivers and have a good young guard corps for the first time in like 25 years

His job is to sell clicks. I dont think Thibs confides in him what he would have done for sure. Its really clear where the actual BS is. Nothing with Melo in it will ever be avoid team, you may not be able to glean that from watching this career loser for six years but that's on you.

His tweet doesn't link to an article. There's no click to sell. Just a basketball reporter's observation.

Also, I say in the post you just quoted that I'd be fine to trade Melo for Austin Rivers. But, I really have very little faith in Phil to get a good Melo deal done if he can't pull off an obvious and easy deal like Rubio for Rose.

Austin Rivers maybe all we can get out of Melo, good or bad doesn't matter. I think we should focus on two way players which Rubio unfortunately is not, because he can't shoot. But I would have been ok with the trade if he had done it, I am ok that he didn't. It's not the end of the world.

nyknickzingis wrote:Gotta love this BS.
As if the Knicks weren't in talks with Minnesota?????
They had interest in making the deal. Lets now pretend as if Phil and the Knicks refused to take Rubio.
It didn't happen. There was strong interest from the Knicks. Trades are not easy to make.

They were obviously in talks with Minnesota. And many people reported that the Knicks screwed it up by trying to get more out of Minnesota and then going back five minutes before the deadline to try to accept Minnesota's original offer. Phil overplayed his hand.

nyknickzingis wrote:But one thing about Rubio. He would have been great for 2 years, but longterm I wish we will able to get a PG that can shoot from outside as well. As good a passer as Rubio is, a great team needs a better primary creator than Rubio. You look at Minnesota, they don't even make the playoffs despite having better younger talent than us, and a better coach.

Rubio was being misused in Thibs' offense this year before the deadline, it was an easy opportunity to get a talented young PG who is an excellent passer with fantastic court vision. His shooting his previously been iffy, but he's got a good shot and he had weird splits like he'd shoot over 50% in the first quarter and under 40% the rest of the game, which implied that it wasn't some form issue, it was something else. He's shooting 50% since the trade deadline, 59% TS%, 44% from 3.

nyknickzingis wrote:Plus, lets look at this another way. So many of us wanted to tank (not me, but I've come to embrace it now). The Knicks get Rubio over Rose, and then win a few more games now, maybe say finish with 35 wins instead of 30. That's a difference in drafting 6th or 11th.

We're in a good spot in the draft, and we're in a good spot because we're not committed to Rose beyond this season, or Melo beyond 2018. We have all the opportunities in the world to rebuild a team with KP/Willy as the two starting building blocks.

If Rubio allowed us to win 5 more games over a 24 game span (less than 1/3 of the season), that's saying he alone would allow us to win more than 15 more games over a full season. That seems high. (On the other hand, if you're saying you think Rubio would lead to a 15+ game improvement over a full season, you should be furious Phil didn't do this trade) The Knicks still could've tanked, and I doubt Rubio would have that big an impact over such a short time period. It might've been the difference between getting the 5th pick and the 7th? Monk would likely still be on the board at 7.

It was a massive missed opportunity. I like Rubio quite a bit. A lot of PGs don't figure it out til their age 26 season... Goran Dragic is one example. Anyway, water under the bridge, but it is a clear example of an easy win trade that Phil mangled. Every single report said Minnesota approached NY with the offer. You get the trade done in that scenario.

Rubio is younger, cheaper, better defender, and overall is playing better than Rose this year (not just recently). Rose went AWOL, is not guaranteed to sign with Minn after this season and probably is going to want MAXish dollars from the team he does sign with....or at least 20M a year on a long term deal.

Knick fans were jumping for joy at a straight up swap (most at least).

Given all of that why do you think that it was a straight up swap. IMO Minn should have been asking for more (think draft pick) than just Rose in return for Rubio.