Posted by islesfan:

Not sure what Don Chaney has to do with this but I think he's ok with Dolan paying him to do nothing this year.

I think Fish still thinks that YOU are Don Chaney. Fish obviously doesn't know what he's talking about because you sound much more like Scott Layden than Don Chaney

Houston can't pass, if he could, he would average more then 2 dimes a game. Considering how many times he had the ball in his hands the yeasr we did not have Marbury, thats pathetic.

Houston is not an average defender. He is a far below average defender, one of the biggest reasons we are so bad as a team on defense, ofcouse Mohammed, TT and Marbury are also all bad individual defenders.

Housotn can't get to the free throw line, which is horrible for a scorer. If his jumper is off, he is useless, futher, he is bad, as he takes away shots from other sand still gives up a lot on the D.

Houston is a very good shooter. Why is he considered a great shooter I don't know. He is not even clos to lets say Reggie Miller, has the same shooting percerntage as for example Carter.

Is Craw better then a healthy Houston? I don't know, lets see them play, I think Craw has the potential to much better. I just don't know if he already is. And consdiering Houston is 33 with bum knees, lets just be thankfull we have a ready replacement for that colosal blunder of a huge and long contract.

Posted by dswish:

SIMRUD, for your information, during the 2002-2003 season, before his injury, Houston went to the line 395 times which was more than Kenyon Martin did who, by the way, is a high flying power forward. That total was more than most of the guards that are always compared to him including Spree who went to the line 110 times less. So while his style of game may appear soft, it might be good to check the stats before forming an opinion.

When Houston's healthy, he's pretty good at getting to the free throw line. He probably gets 3 free throws a game just out of getting defenders to buy his pump fakes

OK! Check more stats. Houston attempted 3 more FTs than Kenyon Martin.
Houston had 395, Kmart had 392. You forgot to mention that Houston played 5 more games than Kenyon Martin. In 5 extra games, he only got 3 more FTs than someone who was not the 1st option on the offense.

Also, that year, Houston was 27th in the league in FT attempted. CHECK THOSE STATS! Don't make Houston out to be someone he is not. He is not great at getting to the line. He is just a very good jump shooter thats all.

http://basketballreference.com/leaders/leadersbyseason.htm?stat=fta&lg=n&yr=2002

This is why total numbers for the season can be misleading. Some players play more games than other.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 08/16/2004 19:49:54]

Thanks Silver, I for once can't understand how somebody who has been actually wathcing the Knicks play claim that Houston is good at getting to the line or that he is an average defender. Frazier is going on about how Houston never gets to the line like every freakin game. And btw, Martin is not a post player. Why would he draw a lot of fauls? He gets his points on putbacks, allys, and transition finishes, not exactly the most prone to fauls scoring opportunites. The way a a big man gets to the free throw line is by posting up and muscling people, aka Shaq, Duncan, etc. As for guards, considering the amount of time he spends withthe ball and the fact the offense ran through him since he was the ONLY option for the most part makes his ft numbers and assists numbers truly pathetic. Spree was playing out of position and out of shape too the last year he was here. It was just a bad situation for both sides.

In his last couple of healthy seasons, Houston got to the line more than Ray Allen as well. Who cares? Why can't you just appreciate the good things he does? Stop being one of those people (Like Islesfan) who dwells on the negatives. You 2 often act as if he is one of the worst players to step on the court, when in fact, he is one of the top 40, when healthy. If Kobe and Iverson and Reggie weren't on the list, I would definitely choose Allan Houston to take that game winning jump shot, over just about everyone in the league.

Posted by Allanfan20:

In his last couple of healthy seasons, Houston got to the line more than Ray Allen as well. Who cares? Why can't you just appreciate the good things he does? Stop being one of those people (Like Islesfan) who dwells on the negatives. You 2 often act as if he is one of the worst players to step on the court, when in fact, he is one of the top 40, when healthy. If Kobe and Iverson and Reggie weren't on the list, I would definitely choose Allan Houston to take that game winning jump shot, over just about everyone in the league.

I am actually getting sick of saying the same thing over and over again. YES HE CAN JUMP SHOOT AND BLAH BLAH.

MY PROBLEM IS THAT HE REFUSES TO DO ANYTHING ELSE LIKE REBOUND AND DRIVE AND PLAY DEFENSE. I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS REFUSES BECAUSE THAT IS THE PART THAT ANNOYS ME THE MOST. ITS NOT LIKE HE IS SHORT OR NOT STRONG. HE JUST DOESN'T WANT TO TRY AND REBOUND THE FREAKING BALL. REFUSAL TO DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN JUMPSHOOT!!!!!!

Posted by Allanfan20:

In his last couple of healthy seasons, Houston got to the line more than Ray Allen as well. Who cares? Why can't you just appreciate the good things he does? Stop being one of those people (Like Islesfan) who dwells on the negatives.

Well Islesfan is clearly in a league of his own but I agree people are underappreciating what a healthy Allan does (despite his shortcomings).
Silverfuel, you can keep repeating the same arguments, but they don't become more compelling if you start using caps and increasing the font size

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/16/2004 21:56:35]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Allanfan20:

In his last couple of healthy seasons, Houston got to the line more than Ray Allen as well. Who cares? Why can't you just appreciate the good things he does? Stop being one of those people (Like Islesfan) who dwells on the negatives.

Well Islesfan is clear in a league of his own but I agree people are underappreciating what Allan does.
Silverfuel, you can keep repeating the same arguments, but they don't become more compelling if you start using caps and increasing the font size

Try addressing them then. Don't say he gets to the line. Say he is wrong for not trying to rebound. I am not trying to compel you!

Posted by Bonn1997:

He's not a good rebounder, but after watching how many times he played hurt and how hard he tries to win, to say he doesn't *try* to rebound is too silly to even comment on. If you say he's not a good rebounder, I'll agree with you. If you say he doesn't try to rebound, I'll just laugh.

I am not trying to compel you!

In that case, you're succeeding

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/16/2004 22:00:02]

If you think its silly dont comment on it. I think its very essential to note that Houston is 1-dimensional. He is one dimensional because he refuses be anything more than one dimensional. He does not try to do anything other than Jump Shoot. If you refuse to agree that he is 1 dimensional then more power to you. I just hope Isiah Thomas is not thinking like you.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 08/16/2004 22:08:10]

Knocking Houston for his rebounding is fair. He was always strong, so he can easily box his guys and and just go up for the boards. 3 years ago, he should have grabbed as many as Ray Allen, if not more. About 5 a game. But silverfeul, you said things like "HE CAN'T JUMP" and it's stuff like that which makes us look as you as just a Houston Hater. We take the haters with a grain of salt. At least I try to. Allan Houston used to be an exceptional jumper. Heck, he once dunked over T-Mac, and even Zo. But if you can't accept the fact that his game is shooting, and creatiing shots, then that's your problem. I find him fun to watch, b/c I enjoy watching people light it up. From anywhere on the court. And like I said, he doesn't refuse to do anything else. At least he does try on defense now, and he certainly does pass. He's a solid passer at that.

You're stating the same arguement over and over again. It's getting old.