nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:As much as it's encouraging to see Rose playing better I think it might be smarter to go with younger CHEAPER players that can do similar things and maybe more D and 3pt Shooting. I don't know if it makes sense to invest in Rose at this point. If they did bring him back on a reasonable contract I would not be upset. He's been steadily getting better which has to be noted.

who's penetrating and finish around the rim like him for cheaper, please let me see that list

Nobody has argued his ability getting the the hoops...its the other things he struggles with

Yes and if we could get a younger player who can DEFEND, PASS and still get to the rim then that's better for the team. It might still happen depending on the draft. We might draft a young PG and still keep Rose.

Also no one has to challenge me on what Rose can do in terms of driving cuz I was one of his biggest supporters before the season. I just wanted to see him defend better, pass the ball more and play within the offense more. He's been starting to do more of that late in the season. Is it enough to warrant committing to him?

You completely threw Melo and Rose under the bus and fully placed the blame for the entire season on them. I argued against this many times and you ALL CAPS screamed at me that it was all their fault.

Again this is CRYSTAL F'N CLEAR! Teams can't win if the best players aren't playing winning ball and especially teams with young players. Melo and Rose STUNK at the Team part of the game on both ends!!! Don't come pounding your chest cuz they finally start doing what they should after it no longer matters! This is some BS!

Winning ball? Who leads current roster in assists? Second? Who leads team in shooting percentage, other than a center?

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Why has Stanley Johnson been such a non-factor for Detroit this year? Figured he'd be getting about 25MPG this year at the 2 & 3. Have not followed his season...expected more after some fine moments last year.

I was wondering the same thing. Could it be Stan? They were saying that he held a practice where he just didn't say anything because he felt he was being too critical.

It was probably the GM in him undermining the coach

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Our starters are shooting 27-41!!!! dammit. Time for some strategic tankery.

Still think Triangle or the system is the problem?
We just need to move the ball
Melo came with a passing mindset early as did Rose
All game we have moved the ball exceptionally well

Just a shame they rarely play with this mentality

So I guess Melo isn't the problem anymore either, huh?

I think we've said from day one that if Melo gets back to being DadMelo that it's a much different story. Rose has been much more in the flow of the offense lately too. Ball Movement and some effort on D is all we've been asking for.

I thought they were selfish, terrible pieces of trash and this whole season was their fault and the franchise was doomed until they left?

This only shows what has been obvious from day 1
KP needed Rose and Melo to play like this all the time
Doesn't matter system or anything

Melo n Rose their mentality has not been like this most of the season

And KP has not played this much within 20 feet, all year.

GEEZ can we stop already with the nonsense. Melo and Rose were not doing what they should be for the majority of the season. No one is making this up it's quite clear with statistics and the EYEBALL TEST. It's how they should've played since day one. Doesn't matter if it's PnR or Triangle or both. It's about Ball Movement.

I don't know since they are Knick fans if either has ever seen a good team with star veterans on it. I followed Boston and Miami quite a bit during their runs. The veteran stars are what make or break your team. In our situation, two veteran stars got together and completely played selfish ball most of the season. Rose was a piece of crap for what he did with the AWOL thing, Melo with his whole butt hurt mentality that Phil said the most honest thing. Phil didn't trash Melo. Phil actually complimented Melo by saying "He can play same role Kobe and Jordan did". He told Lisa Leslie that Melo breaks a rule they like to have to pass the ball within 2 seconds. That's not some big hit piece. The hit pieces and jabs came after Melo began to play right in to the media's hands with that story and act as if Phil was taking some big shot at him. Once the team began losing, Phil did step out of line and tweet that Ding article. That was uncalled for and so was Rosen's piece (but Rosen does say many things Phil disagrees with).

I fully believ that had Melo and Rose made ths same sacrifices in their games and playing style that Lebron/Wade did or KG/Pierce did when they got together the Knicks are 8 to 10 wins better right now. However I am in hindsight happy. Rose would have gotten a big fat 100-120$M contract from us. Melo becomes even more invested in the Knicks doing more in the now moves.

Now we're going to rebiuild. Top 6 lottery pick most likely. Maybe at lowest 7th, highest maybe 4th. We're going to do the things we've needed to do for a while.

And yet another outstanding game by Willy and KP. The opposing team's commenatore were in awe of how good those two were and we have a good portion of our fanbase that still clings onto Rose and Melo for dear life. As if the Marbury Francis Amare years of misery weren't enough. Enough with his ego declining overpaid vets. Rebuild. KP and Willy is a GREAT start.

This is an odd thing to post in a Knick forum that has community members that have been posting here for over a decade.

It's been almost 2 decades since we had a good team in NY with veterans that actually led and played within team concepts. I mean can you name me a Knick team that was actually led by two star veterans in recent memory? The last Knicks team that was any good was with Melo, JKidd, Tyson. JKidd and Tyson were the leaders of that team, especially JKidd. With Melo it's been pretty bad when we've tried to pair him with another star. When Lin was emerging, Melo hated it. When Amare was playing great and Melo came in, it never worked. Now KP and Rose are here, again it doesn't work. Is it always everyone else's fault that Melo teams don't mesh?

The Melo era has been pretty bad. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can say Melo is a good leader, that Melo shares the ball, or that he and Rose played the right way this season. They are not in my opinion the only problem. Or were the only problem. But after Noah, I see Melo and Rose as being the two next in line. They completely did not play witin team concepts or with a veteran mentality that was sorerly needed on a new put together team.

I think if fans of Boston or Miami saw our team this year they'd see the clear issues with leadership. Melo and Rose are good individual players but they have almost no leadership skills and it's important to win in the league. When Wade and James first began playing together it was rough. They both adjusted. When Boston's talent got together a few years ago they adjusted. Melo and Rose came into the season playing the exact same way they've always. Great players who want to win, adjust. The adjustments that come from Melo and Rose usually come a game here or there, or for short stretches. You won't see them buy in.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:As much as it's encouraging to see Rose playing better I think it might be smarter to go with younger CHEAPER players that can do similar things and maybe more D and 3pt Shooting. I don't know if it makes sense to invest in Rose at this point. If they did bring him back on a reasonable contract I would not be upset. He's been steadily getting better which has to be noted.

who's penetrating and finish around the rim like him for cheaper, please let me see that list

Nobody has argued his ability getting the the hoops...its the other things he struggles with

Yes and if we could get a younger player who can DEFEND, PASS and still get to the rim then that's better for the team. It might still happen depending on the draft. We might draft a young PG and still keep Rose.

Also no one has to challenge me on what Rose can do in terms of driving cuz I was one of his biggest supporters before the season. I just wanted to see him defend better, pass the ball more and play within the offense more. He's been starting to do more of that late in the season. Is it enough to warrant committing to him?

You completely threw Melo and Rose under the bus and fully placed the blame for the entire season on them. I argued against this many times and you ALL CAPS screamed at me that it was all their fault.

Again this is CRYSTAL F'N CLEAR! Teams can't win if the best players aren't playing winning ball and especially teams with young players. Melo and Rose STUNK at the Team part of the game on both ends!!! Don't come pounding your chest cuz they finally start doing what they should after it no longer matters! This is some BS!

I've been consistent. I'm just asking for you to be the same.

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Our starters are shooting 27-41!!!! dammit. Time for some strategic tankery.

Still think Triangle or the system is the problem?
We just need to move the ball
Melo came with a passing mindset early as did Rose
All game we have moved the ball exceptionally well

Just a shame they rarely play with this mentality

So I guess Melo isn't the problem anymore either, huh?

I think we've said from day one that if Melo gets back to being DadMelo that it's a much different story. Rose has been much more in the flow of the offense lately too. Ball Movement and some effort on D is all we've been asking for.

I thought they were selfish, terrible pieces of trash and this whole season was their fault and the franchise was doomed until they left?

This only shows what has been obvious from day 1
KP needed Rose and Melo to play like this all the time
Doesn't matter system or anything

Melo n Rose their mentality has not been like this most of the season

And KP has not played this much within 20 feet, all year.

GEEZ can we stop already with the nonsense. Melo and Rose were not doing what they should be for the majority of the season. No one is making this up it's quite clear with statistics and the EYEBALL TEST. It's how they should've played since day one. Doesn't matter if it's PnR or Triangle or both. It's about Ball Movement.

I don't know since they are Knick fans if either has ever seen a good team with star veterans on it. I followed Boston and Miami quite a bit during their runs. The veteran stars are what make or break your team. In our situation, two veteran stars got together and completely played selfish ball most of the season. Rose was a piece of crap for what he did with the AWOL thing, Melo with his whole butt hurt mentality that Phil said the most honest thing. Phil didn't trash Melo. Phil actually complimented Melo by saying "He can play same role Kobe and Jordan did". He told Lisa Leslie that Melo breaks a rule they like to have to pass the ball within 2 seconds. That's not some big hit piece. The hit pieces and jabs came after Melo began to play right in to the media's hands with that story and act as if Phil was taking some big shot at him. Once the team began losing, Phil did step out of line and tweet that Ding article. That was uncalled for and so was Rosen's piece (but Rosen does say many things Phil disagrees with).

I fully believ that had Melo and Rose made ths same sacrifices in their games and playing style that Lebron/Wade did or KG/Pierce did when they got together the Knicks are 8 to 10 wins better right now. However I am in hindsight happy. Rose would have gotten a big fat 100-120$M contract from us. Melo becomes even more invested in the Knicks doing more in the now moves.

Now we're going to rebiuild. Top 6 lottery pick most likely. Maybe at lowest 7th, highest maybe 4th. We're going to do the things we've needed to do for a while.

And yet another outstanding game by Willy and KP. The opposing team's commenatore were in awe of how good those two were and we have a good portion of our fanbase that still clings onto Rose and Melo for dear life. As if the Marbury Francis Amare years of misery weren't enough. Enough with his ego declining overpaid vets. Rebuild. KP and Willy is a GREAT start.

This is an odd thing to post in a Knick forum that has community members that have been posting here for over a decade.

It's been almost 2 decades since we had a good team in NY with veterans that actually led and played within team concepts. I mean can you name me a Knick team that was actually led by two star veterans in recent memory? The last Knicks team that was any good was with Melo, JKidd, Tyson. JKidd and Tyson were the leaders of that team, especially JKidd. With Melo it's been pretty bad when we've tried to pair him with another star. When Lin was emerging, Melo hated it. When Amare was playing great and Melo came in, it never worked. Now KP and Rose are here, again it doesn't work. Is it always everyone else's fault that Melo teams don't mesh?

The Melo era has been pretty bad. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can say Melo is a good leader, that Melo shares the ball, or that he and Rose played the right way this season. They are not in my opinion the only problem. Or were the only problem. But after Noah, I see Melo and Rose as being the two next in line. They completely did not play witin team concepts or with a veteran mentality that was sorerly needed on a new put together team.

I think if fans of Boston or Miami saw our team this year they'd see the clear issues with leadership. Melo and Rose are good individual players but they have almost no leadership skills and it's important to win in the league. When Wade and James first began playing together it was rough. They both adjusted. When Boston's talent got together a few years ago they adjusted. Melo and Rose came into the season playing the exact same way they've always. Great players who want to win, adjust. The adjustments that come from Melo and Rose usually come a game here or there, or for short stretches. You won't see them buy in.

Just a strange statement on a Knick forum. I think you would find most guys minimally were big fans of the 90's Knicks and that passion has continued. I find the posters on this forum to be extremely knowledgeable about the entire nba.

Agreed. And most guys here did not root for Miami and Boston during dry years.

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Our starters are shooting 27-41!!!! dammit. Time for some strategic tankery.

Still think Triangle or the system is the problem?
We just need to move the ball
Melo came with a passing mindset early as did Rose
All game we have moved the ball exceptionally well

Just a shame they rarely play with this mentality

So I guess Melo isn't the problem anymore either, huh?

I think we've said from day one that if Melo gets back to being DadMelo that it's a much different story. Rose has been much more in the flow of the offense lately too. Ball Movement and some effort on D is all we've been asking for.

I thought they were selfish, terrible pieces of trash and this whole season was their fault and the franchise was doomed until they left?

This only shows what has been obvious from day 1
KP needed Rose and Melo to play like this all the time
Doesn't matter system or anything

Melo n Rose their mentality has not been like this most of the season

And KP has not played this much within 20 feet, all year.

GEEZ can we stop already with the nonsense. Melo and Rose were not doing what they should be for the majority of the season. No one is making this up it's quite clear with statistics and the EYEBALL TEST. It's how they should've played since day one. Doesn't matter if it's PnR or Triangle or both. It's about Ball Movement.

You and your non sense. You claim to know a lot but I dont think you realize actual playing situations or have any playing experience. If you Iso a player and everyone stands around, what do you expect to happen? Specially if no double team comes. Is that only on the player? Not saying that Melo does not have lapses where he gets tunnel vision. Just saying that movement off the ball and cutting bigs promote passing. Since Willy has played more minutes, he has brought in a consistant cutter to basket. Rolo did it last year. KP did it much better tonight. Your "eye test" should have already established that he hovered the 3 pt. line way too often, most of the year. Much easier to want to pass to cutters than guys standing at 3 pt. line. As for Rose, not a fan, but we see today how they ran the PnR with Willy and KO cutting to basket. He passed it. Earlier in the year the PnR with hom was more like Pick and Pop.

Amen. Apparently earlier in the season Melo and Rose were using their psychic powers to make guys on the team not understand the offense or move off the ball.

PLEASE! I've done WAY more research on just how bad Melo and Rose were for much of the year and showed many examples of their lack of ball movement. Just cuz of tonight you guys are talking like they've done it right all year and the problem was the kids!

THE KIDS WERE SHARING THE BALL AND CUTTING ALL YEAR! Now of course being less experienced they had lapses and mistakes but it was Melo and Rose who weren't passing to open players most of the year!!!

LMAO. Do more research! Rose 5 dimes per. Melo 3 per.
KP, Holiday, Willy, Lance, Kuz hovering near 1 per. 1 per!!

They are the Stars with experience and touch the ball the most!!! Plus it's more than just the passing that leads to a score and they also SUCKED on D for much of the year. Let's not pretend they played well and led the team. PLEASE!

The worst defensive pairing on the team is KP and Willy. Were Rose and Melo supposed to will them to be faster closing out on stretch 4s?

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

nixluva wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Our starters are shooting 27-41!!!! dammit. Time for some strategic tankery.

Still think Triangle or the system is the problem?
We just need to move the ball
Melo came with a passing mindset early as did Rose
All game we have moved the ball exceptionally well

Just a shame they rarely play with this mentality

So I guess Melo isn't the problem anymore either, huh?

I think we've said from day one that if Melo gets back to being DadMelo that it's a much different story. Rose has been much more in the flow of the offense lately too. Ball Movement and some effort on D is all we've been asking for.

I thought they were selfish, terrible pieces of trash and this whole season was their fault and the franchise was doomed until they left?

This only shows what has been obvious from day 1
KP needed Rose and Melo to play like this all the time
Doesn't matter system or anything

Melo n Rose their mentality has not been like this most of the season

And KP has not played this much within 20 feet, all year.

GEEZ can we stop already with the nonsense. Melo and Rose were not doing what they should be for the majority of the season. No one is making this up it's quite clear with statistics and the EYEBALL TEST. It's how they should've played since day one. Doesn't matter if it's PnR or Triangle or both. It's about Ball Movement.

I don't know since they are Knick fans if either has ever seen a good team with star veterans on it. I followed Boston and Miami quite a bit during their runs. The veteran stars are what make or break your team. In our situation, two veteran stars got together and completely played selfish ball most of the season. Rose was a piece of crap for what he did with the AWOL thing, Melo with his whole butt hurt mentality that Phil said the most honest thing. Phil didn't trash Melo. Phil actually complimented Melo by saying "He can play same role Kobe and Jordan did". He told Lisa Leslie that Melo breaks a rule they like to have to pass the ball within 2 seconds. That's not some big hit piece. The hit pieces and jabs came after Melo began to play right in to the media's hands with that story and act as if Phil was taking some big shot at him. Once the team began losing, Phil did step out of line and tweet that Ding article. That was uncalled for and so was Rosen's piece (but Rosen does say many things Phil disagrees with).

I fully believ that had Melo and Rose made ths same sacrifices in their games and playing style that Lebron/Wade did or KG/Pierce did when they got together the Knicks are 8 to 10 wins better right now. However I am in hindsight happy. Rose would have gotten a big fat 100-120$M contract from us. Melo becomes even more invested in the Knicks doing more in the now moves.

Now we're going to rebiuild. Top 6 lottery pick most likely. Maybe at lowest 7th, highest maybe 4th. We're going to do the things we've needed to do for a while.

And yet another outstanding game by Willy and KP. The opposing team's commenatore were in awe of how good those two were and we have a good portion of our fanbase that still clings onto Rose and Melo for dear life. As if the Marbury Francis Amare years of misery weren't enough. Enough with his ego declining overpaid vets. Rebuild. KP and Willy is a GREAT start.

This is an odd thing to post in a Knick forum that has community members that have been posting here for over a decade.

It's been almost 2 decades since we had a good team in NY with veterans that actually led and played within team concepts. I mean can you name me a Knick team that was actually led by two star veterans in recent memory? The last Knicks team that was any good was with Melo, JKidd, Tyson. JKidd and Tyson were the leaders of that team, especially JKidd. With Melo it's been pretty bad when we've tried to pair him with another star. When Lin was emerging, Melo hated it. When Amare was playing great and Melo came in, it never worked. Now KP and Rose are here, again it doesn't work. Is it always everyone else's fault that Melo teams don't mesh?

The Melo era has been pretty bad. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can say Melo is a good leader, that Melo shares the ball, or that he and Rose played the right way this season. They are not in my opinion the only problem. Or were the only problem. But after Noah, I see Melo and Rose as being the two next in line. They completely did not play witin team concepts or with a veteran mentality that was sorerly needed on a new put together team.

I think if fans of Boston or Miami saw our team this year they'd see the clear issues with leadership. Melo and Rose are good individual players but they have almost no leadership skills and it's important to win in the league. When Wade and James first began playing together it was rough. They both adjusted. When Boston's talent got together a few years ago they adjusted. Melo and Rose came into the season playing the exact same way they've always. Great players who want to win, adjust. The adjustments that come from Melo and Rose usually come a game here or there, or for short stretches. You won't see them buy in.

Just a strange statement on a Knick forum. I think you would find most guys minimally were big fans of the 90's Knicks and that passion has continued. I find the posters on this forum to be extremely knowledgeable about the entire nba.

Agreed. And most guys here did not root for Miami and Boston during dry years.

That's what I meant. Nothing else.

nyknickzingis wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:As much as it's encouraging to see Rose playing better I think it might be smarter to go with younger CHEAPER players that can do similar things and maybe more D and 3pt Shooting. I don't know if it makes sense to invest in Rose at this point. If they did bring him back on a reasonable contract I would not be upset. He's been steadily getting better which has to be noted.

who's penetrating and finish around the rim like him for cheaper, please let me see that list

Nobody has argued his ability getting the the hoops...its the other things he struggles with

Yes and if we could get a younger player who can DEFEND, PASS and still get to the rim then that's better for the team. It might still happen depending on the draft. We might draft a young PG and still keep Rose.

Also no one has to challenge me on what Rose can do in terms of driving cuz I was one of his biggest supporters before the season. I just wanted to see him defend better, pass the ball more and play within the offense more. He's been starting to do more of that late in the season. Is it enough to warrant committing to him?

You completely threw Melo and Rose under the bus and fully placed the blame for the entire season on them. I argued against this many times and you ALL CAPS screamed at me that it was all their fault.

Again this is CRYSTAL F'N CLEAR! Teams can't win if the best players aren't playing winning ball and especially teams with young players. Melo and Rose STUNK at the Team part of the game on both ends!!! Don't come pounding your chest cuz they finally start doing what they should after it no longer matters! This is some BS!

Winning ball? Who leads current roster in assists? Second? Who leads team in shooting percentage, other than a center?

KP leads the team in blocks and is top 5 in rim protection in the league. Do you call him a good defender? No. He isn't. Come on man, you are smarter than using stats like that to back your point.

I agree Nix blames too much on Melo.

But come on Melo and Rose needed to do a better job. They played as if they both were still playing on different teams. Coaching was an issue as was investing 18$M on useless Noah (Who I like but he was useless this year).

To me the blame game is

1-Noah
2-Rose (For D and no PG mentality)
3-Melo (For iso heavy low assist play first half of season)
4-Jennings (Lack of scoring off the bench, we needed it from him)
5-KP (For defense, and stupid foul infested games)

Overall my top 5 including Phil/Horny as well

1- Phil for signing Noah and trading for Rose
2- Noah
3- Rose
4- Melo
5- Horny (for having no balls)

Bro, you have to stop getting your head spun around anytime someone says something about KP. The post was about winning ball. Poster meant passing. What does KP's rim protection have to do with anything? I was arguing the premise that Melo and Rose never pass and everyone else pass so often. Which statistically includes KP. I root for all players. May give opinion of what each player needs to work on. But will defend them when guys try to make it seem like getting rid of one player will change this **** show.

Btw. What part of Latvia are you from?

nyknickzingis wrote:lol at me being Latvian, that's a good one !
I am saying you can not equate being statistically decent in a category to overall style of play.

Rose may average 4-5 assists. However he plays like a SG. A team that has issues passing the ball, playing too much isolation, you don't think that has anything to do with the fact that it's top 2 players play a certain way?

The point I was making. Just because KP is good at blocking shots doesn't make him a good defender. He is not a good defender, yet. Same way, Rose may lead the team in assists but that does not mean he should be seen as a good passer. He has poor passing instincts unless it's pick and roll basketball with a big rolling, He is only good at passing when the big is rolling. Any other situation his PG skills are very weak at the NBA level.

Melo may be good in certain stats, but the thing that was quite obvious was that he came into this season in shoot first, second and third mode. That combined with Rose's inability to be a good PG, really hurt our offensive chemistry.

If there's one thing you definitely don't want in the Triangle, it's a shooting guard type player who can get to the rim at will and averages 5apg. That would never work in the Triangle, which has never had success with shooting guard type players and has always relied on pure point guards.