crzymdups wrote:KP should look at the physique Rudy Gobert has been able to carve out for himself. That should be KP's goal over the next few years. KP needs to add some lean muscle - not get too big, just stronger. He's still young, so there's time.

I followed Gobert early in his career, too, he has constantly improved over the past four seasons to be the beast he is now. Hope KP can keep developing here.

He should be spending the summer with Hakeem, not dirk, who has never been known for any defense. That's all you guys ever allude to, how good they will be offensively..

Willy has been playing professional basketball since 2011, stop acting like he just started when he got to america

LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He was utterly destroyed two games in a row.
He is not balanced and undisciplined offensively and slow footed and weak defensively.
I'm not sure what position he plays right now

He tries to play like a 3 from either the 4-5 and is not a willing passer. He needs a lot of work.

KP is 3 full years younger than R-Gobert and KP won't turn 22 until August (Gobert 25 in June).

Ask yourself this.

At the time we drafted this skinny/pencil Euro -- if I told in 2 years that pencil would be avg. 17/7/2 would you have expected that? Most thought it would take him 2-3 years to be able to get off the bench.

I'm shocked at how poorly the Knicks defend (KP included) but that will get better --- right now KP is making many foolish/dumb fouls that put him in foul trouble don't allow him to remain aggressive and for the life of me I can't understand why we ever let this kid step foot outside the paint.

We need a year long defensive boot camp with this team - KP needs to get stronger but settle down Briggs - he just needs to mature and learn how to play smarter.

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

crzymdups wrote:KP should look at the physique Rudy Gobert has been able to carve out for himself. That should be KP's goal over the next few years. KP needs to add some lean muscle - not get too big, just stronger. He's still young, so there's time.

I followed Gobert early in his career, too, he has constantly improved over the past four seasons to be the beast he is now. Hope KP can keep developing here.

Gobert had huge expectations last season. And kind of failed to meet the expectation level set for him last year. Now he is coming into his own. He had many dud games, high turnovers, low %, couldn't hit FTs, couldn't score. Of course he also had monster games mixed in. Briggs would have made threads looking to trade him after some of his games in his 3rd season. Bonn would have been saying how he isn't worth a max contract extension.

Yep, I remember people talking up the Jazz heading into last season as a young team on the rise. They sort of sputtered, but then put it together this season. Partially because of George Hill.

Kinda hoping for their sake they don't lose Gordon Hayward, but I could really see him going to Boston to play for his college coach.

Since we are talking about Western teams at the moment. You catch Denver take it to Cavs last night? They just have waves of shooters and ball movers. Harris & Chandler & Barton & Murry not even counting Gallo. Then they have Jokic in the middle doing work.

They would be perfect for the Triangle lol.

Denver has a weird roster... but man, Jokic has become an amazing passer out of the post. He has, like, different speeds he puts on his passes to make sure they get through the defense. He's a great player.

Bonn1997 wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MaulingandAppalling wrote:KP is overrated, it's just that simple. He's a competent young player, but he gets outplayed every game. Certainly can't be the centerpiece of a rebuilding effort - good third or fourth option. Because he's so overrated right now, we could probably trade him for an elite point guard.

Just a bizarre comment. Luckily mavs fans weren't this dumb when it came to dirk, who KP is probably ahead of at the same age.

Statistically, KP is significantly behind Dirk's second year. It's also not wise to assume that any one player will have the same exponential rate of improvement that Dirk had. Why would you?

Wait what?

Dirk at 21 averaged 17/7
KP at 21 averages 18/7

They are almost identical on stats for age 21.

I've done the comparison many times
Nowitzki at 21 better outside shooter KP better rim protector and at drives to basket

FYI, naysayers will point to some advanced stats because it's the end-all-be-all of determining the better player. Today's fans are obsessed with advanced stats because they can always find ones that prove their point.

It's not today's fans. It's today's top teams. They all have strong metrics departments.

And i bet you can't find a single "metrics guy" employed by an NBA team that doesn't think KP will eventually be more than a 3rd or 4th option. You are proving my original point.

Now you're just making things up IMO. Metrics guys are evidence-based. That means they don't have crystal balls for the future. At best, they'd have a range - they'd discuss how likely it is that he will be a superstar, all-star, solid starter, etc. They're not going to just point to one outcome - like all-star - and say this will happen. Any metrics person will not be pleased with his advanced stats being the same in year 2 as in year 1. (It doesn't bode well but it certainly isn't devastating either.) Anywhere in the full-range is possible. That even includes that he is one of the players who peaks in year 1 and then goes downhill. That's not likely but a metrics person is not going to rule out any possibilities.

So then why predict he can only be a 3rd or 4th option? If you are talking him bein that right now on a winning team I would agree. But if you are predicting his future ceiling then thats way out of place.

I already mentioned superstar as the ceiling, but it's reckless to plan the team expecting that to happen.

What are you talking about. Any team that has a promising young player plans to make that player the centerpiece or significant piece of the franchise.

Huh?

BRIGGS wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:KP scoress team high points, knocks down 3 three pointers, 1 steal, 1 block with a final line of 24 points and yet KP is not "ready".
I'd like to see all the great players who are "ready" at 21 then.

He's been our best scoring and offensive player in March and in the Triangle. I don't know what Briggs expects of him, but he has been showing more willingness and ability to create shots and make things happen. He's takem every match up on, and is't shying away from creating on offense anymore. I like that. Last season KP was too passive. This year he's become more confident in creating and it's showing.

24 points on 17 shots is always a good finish. Only 31 minutes. The Knicks are moving him from position to position, to see where he can do more. He's had some games at 5, others at 4 this last month. There's no consistency with our game planning and it's hard for any player to become defensively great when you're moved position to position.

Gobert and DeAndre, Blake as well, these are all players who thrive when an opposing PG gets into the paint or moving off the ball. They are not scoring these points on KP all one on one in defense. Many of their points are when they get to move off the ball. You have to help the helper. The Knicks rarely help the helper.

That said, KP's man defense is weak this year. No arguments he has to still work and improve. But I love what he's doing on offense right now. He's not shy, he's taking it to the basket and taking shots that last year he was passing up. He's becoming more and more like a player that can be the primary scorer on a team.

If yiu are bragging on Kp stats last night please stop-- it could've said 8 point 2 rebounds because he was ripped apart. Does anyone actually watch the games? There are people who are advocating that we go with kp as our star right now-- but frankly he's not close to that. I think someone had it right. Maybe in a good team. Kp can be like wheel 3 or 4. He needs to get much stronger although at 7-3 it won't be ez. Last night it looked like kp was minimally 3 years Away strength wise

What were deandre Jordan's second year stats? 4.8 points and 5 rebounds
Goberts: 8.4pts and 9.5rebounds. According to you they never got better physically or game wise

Could anyon stop KP off the dribble yesterday? There's a reason for that.

Swishfm3 wrote:The problem, imo, is not that he is being overwhelmed, its that the Knicks are not utilizing him the right way. KP is NOT a center..He has NO post moves and is not strong enough to bang with the bigger 5 in the league.

His strength is his outside shooting and above average handling skills (for a "big" man). I also do not believe that the "triangle" is the right offense for him to be in. I hate to say it but he would look fantastic in Houston in the SSOL offense that MDA runs.

Its comical reading comments saying that all needs is a Summer with Olajuwon to develop a post up game...like that's all it takes, lol. This kid has been playing this way HIS WHOLE LIFE! He likes to take outside shots and he likes to go ISO and try to take his man off the dribble. That's not going to change in a couple of years, if ever.

Where KP has been underwhelming is defensive impact. No question. We all saw flashes early as a rookie and thought he'd become a great defender fast. It hasn't happened. He's quite focused on offense and blocking shots. It's time for him to focus on man defense this summer. How to play angles. How to use his arms without fouling. The franchise (Phil, Horny) need to give him a spot (4 or 5) and get him to focus on that. Offensively he is doing quite well. Man defense in rotations (especially on switches), fouls, that's his real problem. He can't become a superstar if he's always having trouble with fouls or his man defense. He's too competitive and he fouls when he's not doing well on man D.

nyknickzingis wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:The problem, imo, is not that he is being overwhelmed, its that the Knicks are not utilizing him the right way. KP is NOT a center..He has NO post moves and is not strong enough to bang with the bigger 5 in the league.

His strength is his outside shooting and above average handling skills (for a "big" man). I also do not believe that the "triangle" is the right offense for him to be in. I hate to say it but he would look fantastic in Houston in the SSOL offense that MDA runs.

Its comical reading comments saying that all needs is a Summer with Olajuwon to develop a post up game...like that's all it takes, lol. This kid has been playing this way HIS WHOLE LIFE! He likes to take outside shots and he likes to go ISO and try to take his man off the dribble. That's not going to change in a couple of years, if ever.

Knick are using him better in the Triangle. Offense is not the problem. Even in this early very early part of his career he is putting up good numbers. 18 points a night. Last night he had 24 points on 8-17, and the other night he had 18 points on 9-16. Both times number one shot taker. The way he is playing is pretty good.

Where KP has been underwhelming is defensive impact. No question. We all saw flashes early as a rookie and thought he'd become a great defender fast. It hasn't happened. He's quite focused on offense and blocking shots. It's time for him to focus on man defense this summer. How to play angles. How to use his arms without fouling. The franchise (Phil, Horny) need to give him a spot (4 or 5) and get him to focus on that. Offensively he is doing quite well. Man defense in rotations (especially on switches), fouls, that's his real problem. He can't become a superstar if he's always having trouble with fouls or his man defense. He's too competitive and he fouls when he's not doing well on man D.

I'm sure man to man defense will be a big focus in the offseason and no doubt he will come back improved in that area next season.

Swishfm3 wrote:The problem, imo, is not that he is being overwhelmed, its that the Knicks are not utilizing him the right way. KP is NOT a center..He has NO post moves and is not strong enough to bang with the bigger 5 in the league.

His strength is his outside shooting and above average handling skills (for a "big" man). I also do not believe that the "triangle" is the right offense for him to be in. I hate to say it but he would look fantastic in Houston in the SSOL offense that MDA runs.

Its comical reading comments saying that all needs is a Summer with Olajuwon to develop a post up game...like that's all it takes, lol. This kid has been playing this way HIS WHOLE LIFE! He likes to take outside shots and he likes to go ISO and try to take his man off the dribble. That's not going to change in a couple of years, if ever.

If you are 7'3" and can't use it to your advantage than what's the point? When he becomes the focal point and inherits Melo's defenders who he can't take off the dribble, what then?

It's only a matter of time before the defense collapses on him when he puts the ball on the floor..

holfresh wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:The problem, imo, is not that he is being overwhelmed, its that the Knicks are not utilizing him the right way. KP is NOT a center..He has NO post moves and is not strong enough to bang with the bigger 5 in the league.

His strength is his outside shooting and above average handling skills (for a "big" man). I also do not believe that the "triangle" is the right offense for him to be in. I hate to say it but he would look fantastic in Houston in the SSOL offense that MDA runs.

Its comical reading comments saying that all needs is a Summer with Olajuwon to develop a post up game...like that's all it takes, lol. This kid has been playing this way HIS WHOLE LIFE! He likes to take outside shots and he likes to go ISO and try to take his man off the dribble. That's not going to change in a couple of years, if ever.

If you are 7'3" and can't use it to your advantage than what's the point? When he becomes the focal point and inherits Melo's defenders who he can't take off the dribble, what then?

It's only a matter of time before the defense collapses on him when he puts the ball on the floor..

In this month alone he has given a tough time to Draymond Green and Rudy Gobert on offense...both elite NBA defenders....This is KP's second year in the league. I think he will be fine.