CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

He tried and failed, but it wasn't close. He badly misjudged talent and how it would fit together.

If Dolan could bring someone in that could say - like Briggs thread - we're 3-5 years away, lets plan for that and act accordingly- then he has to make that move.

I'm not sure Phil believes we're that far away.

Why else do you bring in a pair of FA that are on the wrong side of 30?

I agree. Also, Phil did bring in 10 vets and signed three guys over 30 this offseason. I also think you have to remember Kuz is going to be 28 at the start of next season. He was brought into fill DWill's spot. He isn't a traditional rookie. I like the young guys but I think Phil thought he had a top 11 that would compete. Filling out the back end of the roster with young guys isn't a bad move. But I also don't think it is a commitment to rebuilding. Four of the rooks weren't drafted. If two have nba careers over 3 years the Knicks have hit a home run.

Come on you can't use just the off season moves to determine what his rebuilding intentions are. Of course he wasn't thinking about a rebuild when trying to put a decent roster around Melo. You hope for some success but all the while knowing you have 3 picks in the coming draft and trades you may have to make in the summer.

We will find out for sure just how committed to a rebuild Phil is. I get the notion that he's ready to get very serious about building a new core.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

He tried and failed, but it wasn't close. He badly misjudged talent and how it would fit together.

If Dolan could bring someone in that could say - like Briggs thread - we're 3-5 years away, lets plan for that and act accordingly- then he has to make that move.

I'm not sure Phil believes we're that far away.

Why else do you bring in a pair of FA that are on the wrong side of 30?

I agree. Also, Phil did bring in 10 vets and signed three guys over 30 this offseason. I also think you have to remember Kuz is going to be 28 at the start of next season. He was brought into fill DWill's spot. He isn't a traditional rookie. I like the young guys but I think Phil thought he had a top 11 that would compete. Filling out the back end of the roster with young guys isn't a bad move. But I also don't think it is a commitment to rebuilding. Four of the rooks weren't drafted. If two have nba careers over 3 years the Knicks have hit a home run.

Come on you can't use just the off season moves to determine what his rebuilding intentions are. Of course he wasn't thinking about a rebuild when trying to put a decent roster around Melo. You hope for some success but all the while knowing you have 3 picks in the coming draft and trades you may have to make in the summer.

We will find out for sure just how committed to a rebuild Phil is. I get the notion that he's ready to get very serious about building a new core.

crzymdups wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

He tried and failed, but it wasn't close. He badly misjudged talent and how it would fit together.

If Dolan could bring someone in that could say - like Briggs thread - we're 3-5 years away, lets plan for that and act accordingly- then he has to make that move.

I'm not sure Phil believes we're that far away.

Why else do you bring in a pair of FA that are on the wrong side of 30?

I agree. Also, Phil did bring in 10 vets and signed three guys over 30 this offseason. I also think you have to remember Kuz is going to be 28 at the start of next season. He was brought into fill DWill's spot. He isn't a traditional rookie. I like the young guys but I think Phil thought he had a top 11 that would compete. Filling out the back end of the roster with young guys isn't a bad move. But I also don't think it is a commitment to rebuilding. Four of the rooks weren't drafted. If two have nba careers over 3 years the Knicks have hit a home run.

Come on you can't use just the off season moves to determine what his rebuilding intentions are. Of course he wasn't thinking about a rebuild when trying to put a decent roster around Melo. You hope for some success but all the while knowing you have 3 picks in the coming draft and trades you may have to make in the summer.

We will find out for sure just how committed to a rebuild Phil is. I get the notion that he's ready to get very serious about building a new core.

The Knicks have one first round pick in the draft. I hope they hit the jackpot with one of those second round picks. I think the Bulls pick could be valuable. The Rockets pick is 57 currently. They might be able to get a guy there but I think the rebuild will be more about first round picks the next few years.

I would look to move KOQ for a late first round pick or high second round pick. We are overloaded at Center. I like KOQ, but we need to balance out the roster. We can't carry five centers next season. Willy or KOQ have good trade value and one of them should be moved. I'm sure everyone prefers to keep Willy, so we really need to look at moving KOQ. Maybe package him with our Bulls second rounder to get a high second round pick? Something.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

Yeah, at the very least he gave us flexibility. Rose sucks, but he is only here for a year. Not really a big deal in the long-term. The team still needs to sell tickets and Rose did create buzz early on. I think it freed up Phil to start planning long-term w/o James breathing down his neck. I think it also frees us up in terms of draft strategy. We can truly look at the best player available, instead of reaching based on position.

Its setting the table. Even if Phil isn't here past his contract his successor will have a great foundation to builds on in 2019

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

Yeah, at the very least he gave us flexibility. Rose sucks, but he is only here for a year. Not really a big deal in the long-term. The team still needs to sell tickets and Rose did create buzz early on. I think it freed up Phil to start planning long-term w/o James breathing down his neck. I think it also frees us up in terms of draft strategy. We can truly look at the best player available, instead of reaching based on position.

Its setting the table. Even if Phil isn't here past his contract his successor will have a great foundation to builds on in 2019

July 1, 2019 - the Knicks new President Isiah Thomas announces he has traded Kristaps Porzingis, De'Aaron Fox, and Michael Porter to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Russell Westbrook, who is recovering from knee surgery, but hopes to be ready for training camp.

My God man... don't joke just for the sake of joking.... We have to speak positive and positivity will gravitate to us. Law of attraction mofo!

CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

He tried and failed, but it wasn't close. He badly misjudged talent and how it would fit together.

If Dolan could bring someone in that could say - like Briggs thread - we're 3-5 years away, lets plan for that and act accordingly- then he has to make that move.

I'm not sure Phil believes we're that far away.

Why else do you bring in a pair of FA that are on the wrong side of 30?

I agree. Also, Phil did bring in 10 vets and signed three guys over 30 this offseason. I also think you have to remember Kuz is going to be 28 at the start of next season. He was brought into fill DWill's spot. He isn't a traditional rookie. I like the young guys but I think Phil thought he had a top 11 that would compete. Filling out the back end of the roster with young guys isn't a bad move. But I also don't think it is a commitment to rebuilding. Four of the rooks weren't drafted. If two have nba careers over 3 years the Knicks have hit a home run.

Pretty much...Those that think the plan was to rebuild all along is fooling themselves...You dont sign Melo for that kind of money and throw in a NTC if the plan is for a complete rebuild. You dont sign Rose, Noah, and Lee and think you can compete right away. The problem with phil and other GMs who have been here is trying to rebuild and win at the same time. Its a half-ass commitment.

Hopefully, phil and Mills have learned from this season and embrace the plan of a full rebuild moving forward. Unfortunately, Melo has a lot of say in how we are going to move forward...

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

He tried and failed, but it wasn't close. He badly misjudged talent and how it would fit together.

If Dolan could bring someone in that could say - like Briggs thread - we're 3-5 years away, lets plan for that and act accordingly- then he has to make that move.

I'm not sure Phil believes we're that far away.

Why else do you bring in a pair of FA that are on the wrong side of 30?

I agree. Also, Phil did bring in 10 vets and signed three guys over 30 this offseason. I also think you have to remember Kuz is going to be 28 at the start of next season. He was brought into fill DWill's spot. He isn't a traditional rookie. I like the young guys but I think Phil thought he had a top 11 that would compete. Filling out the back end of the roster with young guys isn't a bad move. But I also don't think it is a commitment to rebuilding. Four of the rooks weren't drafted. If two have nba careers over 3 years the Knicks have hit a home run.

Pretty much...Those that think the plan was to rebuild all along is fooling themselves...You dont sign Melo for that kind of money and throw in a NTC if the plan is for a complete rebuild. You dont sign Rose, Noah, and Lee and think you can compete right away. The problem with phil and other GMs who have been here is trying to rebuild and win at the same time. Its a half-ass commitment.

Hopefully, phil and Mills have learned from this season and embrace the plan of a full rebuild moving forward. Unfortunately, Melo has a lot of say in how we are going to move forward...

I wouldn't say he has a lot of say. basically if he refuses to leave then he has to accept to smaller role here . Its obvious KP Willy and our lotto pick are the new core. If he accepts that role I think it will actually help the team.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

He tried and failed, but it wasn't close. He badly misjudged talent and how it would fit together.

If Dolan could bring someone in that could say - like Briggs thread - we're 3-5 years away, lets plan for that and act accordingly- then he has to make that move.

I'm not sure Phil believes we're that far away.

Why else do you bring in a pair of FA that are on the wrong side of 30?

I agree. Also, Phil did bring in 10 vets and signed three guys over 30 this offseason. I also think you have to remember Kuz is going to be 28 at the start of next season. He was brought into fill DWill's spot. He isn't a traditional rookie. I like the young guys but I think Phil thought he had a top 11 that would compete. Filling out the back end of the roster with young guys isn't a bad move. But I also don't think it is a commitment to rebuilding. Four of the rooks weren't drafted. If two have nba careers over 3 years the Knicks have hit a home run.

Pretty much...Those that think the plan was to rebuild all along is fooling themselves...You dont sign Melo for that kind of money and throw in a NTC if the plan is for a complete rebuild. You dont sign Rose, Noah, and Lee and think you can compete right away. The problem with phil and other GMs who have been here is trying to rebuild and win at the same time. Its a half-ass commitment.

Hopefully, phil and Mills have learned from this season and embrace the plan of a full rebuild moving forward. Unfortunately, Melo has a lot of say in how we are going to move forward...

I wouldn't say he has a lot of say. basically if he refuses to leave then he has to accept to smaller role here . Its obvious KP Willy and our lotto pick are the new core. If he accepts that role I think it will actually help the team.

If he stays I don't think things change much unless the coach is switched. Even then he still is going to be the go to guy. KP will get there. Also, if Melo stays one of KP, Melo or Willy needs to go to the bench. Lance as starter works much better if the team goal is winning.

I don't see it. I'm pretty sure he is going unless Dolan fires Phil or Phil leaves. KP aint going to the bench just for Melo thats for sure

nixluva wrote:Come on you can't use just the off season moves to determine what his rebuilding intentions are. Of course he wasn't thinking about a rebuild when trying to put a decent roster around Melo. You hope for some success but all the while knowing you have 3 picks in the coming draft and trades you may have to make in the summer.

We will find out for sure just how committed to a rebuild Phil is. I get the notion that he's ready to get very serious about building a new core.

How many more years does the Noah contract run after this one? THREE MORE YEARS

How many more years does the Lee contract run after this one? THREE MORE YEARS

How many more years will Melo potentially hold this franchise hostage with his NTC and trade kicker? TWO MORE YEARS

How many cost controlled years did the Knicks surrender to get Rose on the roster? Grant's THREE YEARS while on his rookie contract

How many below market contract years for Lopez did the Knicks give up in exchange for Rose's expiring? THREE YEARS

Jackson's intentions are pretty clear WHEN HE COMMITS MONEY AND TIME ACROSS SEVERAL YEARS. Every dollar spent poorly now reflects in future years. Every asset not maximized reflects in future years. Every poor decision now reflects in future years.

You are being intentionally obtuse, no one can be as willfully blind to how NBA contracts and long term impact of those contracts tend to operate as you are pretending to be.

crzymdups wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:Here is my problem with Phil. I think it's safe to say he expected the Knicks to compete this year. He wasn't merely wrong, he was wildly wrong.

We need a GM who can better judge what we have, and what we need.

We are probably definitely looking at the lottery the next 2 years at a min. We need a GM who understands that and plans accordingly.

I know you as a coach and player can't play to lose, but GM is a different game. Fourth and long deep in your end, it's ok to punt, and that is what we need our GM to see and do.

He tried and failed at winning now. He did not fail at stockpiling youth. He's got to finish off his contract and then we can evaluate what to do next. We expect to be in the lotto this off season and ther next. That coinsides with that plan... so we all just need to chill and enjoy this. It's never been done before. Id hate to miss this journey crying

Yeah, at the very least he gave us flexibility. Rose sucks, but he is only here for a year. Not really a big deal in the long-term. The team still needs to sell tickets and Rose did create buzz early on. I think it freed up Phil to start planning long-term w/o James breathing down his neck. I think it also frees us up in terms of draft strategy. We can truly look at the best player available, instead of reaching based on position.

Its setting the table. Even if Phil isn't here past his contract his successor will have a great foundation to builds on in 2019

July 1, 2019 - the Knicks new President Isiah Thomas announces he has traded Kristaps Porzingis, De'Aaron Fox, and Michael Porter to the Oklahoma City Thunder for Russell Westbrook, who is recovering from knee surgery, but hopes to be ready for training camp.