nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If the system is so easy and player friendly why isn't any team in the league, d league ,college, over seaseas, re playing it, And I'm not talking aspects of it, im talking a 100% commitment like phils knicks are?

no on earth can answer this, they come back with, the spurs and GSW run aspects of it...

You keep asking stupid questions man. There are a lot of college teams that play it, you just don't who they are, so stop playing dumb and asking dumb questions.

Stupid questions? So being the only team in the NBA who is asked to exclusively run it is "Lots"?
And we should expect a new roster, each year, to learn such a complex system? Laugh when people say its the personnel? We can all act like Phil and the Triangle are not laughed about throughout the NBA. But that will not change reality. We and Phil are viewed as a joke. Plain and simple.

Btw: Article on the Triangle. Everyone should note the personnel Phil won the 11 chips with.

http://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense/

It's serious cuz guys are talking about the triangle like outs a software program.... If it didn't have a name what would you complain about? We have terrible chemistry and Melo and Rose are losers. If you want to blame Phil and the way they want to get organized playing basketball that's on you.... truth is if the Knicks played the dick in tbe butt offense they still would be terrible. Melo and Rose are a bad fit for us.... i could deal with saying Phil shouldn't have signed Melo and never traded for Rose... but constantly taking about the offense like that's the problem sounds like a gay porn skit.

Will take your word for the gay porn thing. Thing is, Melo is gone soon and Rose was only here for one year (Phil brought him here) Agree that it's time to move on from both. Problem is, Melo and Rose have not made this organazation a laughing stock. They were just not good enough to bring us out of being one. You keep missing the point, your fighting for a system that NO ONE else plays for and that will probably not be here in two years. We will have wasted 5 years with Uncle Phil. KP has been thrown into a system that he will probably never play for again, once Phil is gone. Ask yourself if Phil has made us more respected or less? IMO, that's why he was really brought here for. Triangle or not, he has made this a very unattractive destination. If you think he has not contributed do the Dolan legacy of bad decisions, you are sadly mistaken.

Yep. Agreed.

What do you want to bet that when Melo leaves and Rose leaves, around this time next year Phil and Rosen will be quietly blaming Hornacek and KP for the Triangle not working?

I think Hornacek will be the next fall guy, but I could see KP getting some flak, too.

Really, every year, Phil chooses a different set of fall guys. First it was Shump and JR, then Fisher, now Melo and Rose, maybe it's time to blame the coach again next year.

I disagree because the other players actually execute the Triangle better and defend better minus Melo and Rose!!! Now with more time and hopefully some new 2 Way Talent, this team could improve.

So why was Melo getting so many near triple doubles under Fisher last year and you were telling us how he got the Triangle and it was making him better? Am I misremembering that?

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If the system is so easy and player friendly why isn't any team in the league, d league ,college, over seaseas, re playing it, And I'm not talking aspects of it, im talking a 100% commitment like phils knicks are?

no on earth can answer this, they come back with, the spurs and GSW run aspects of it...

You keep asking stupid questions man. There are a lot of college teams that play it, you just don't who they are, so stop playing dumb and asking dumb questions.

Stupid questions? So being the only team in the NBA who is asked to exclusively run it is "Lots"?
And we should expect a new roster, each year, to learn such a complex system? Laugh when people say its the personnel? We can all act like Phil and the Triangle are not laughed about throughout the NBA. But that will not change reality. We and Phil are viewed as a joke. Plain and simple.

Btw: Article on the Triangle. Everyone should note the personnel Phil won the 11 chips with.

http://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense/

It's serious cuz guys are talking about the triangle like outs a software program.... If it didn't have a name what would you complain about? We have terrible chemistry and Melo and Rose are losers. If you want to blame Phil and the way they want to get organized playing basketball that's on you.... truth is if the Knicks played the dick in tbe butt offense they still would be terrible. Melo and Rose are a bad fit for us.... i could deal with saying Phil shouldn't have signed Melo and never traded for Rose... but constantly taking about the offense like that's the problem sounds like a gay porn skit.

Will take your word for the gay porn thing. Thing is, Melo is gone soon and Rose was only here for one year (Phil brought him here) Agree that it's time to move on from both. Problem is, Melo and Rose have not made this organazation a laughing stock. They were just not good enough to bring us out of being one. You keep missing the point, your fighting for a system that NO ONE else plays for and that will probably not be here in two years. We will have wasted 5 years with Uncle Phil. KP has been thrown into a system that he will probably never play for again, once Phil is gone. Ask yourself if Phil has made us more respected or less? IMO, that's why he was really brought here for. Triangle or not, he has made this a very unattractive destination. If you think he has not contributed do the Dolan legacy of bad decisions, you are sadly mistaken.

Yep. Agreed.

What do you want to bet that when Melo leaves and Rose leaves, around this time next year Phil and Rosen will be quietly blaming Hornacek and KP for the Triangle not working?

I think Hornacek will be the next fall guy, but I could see KP getting some flak, too.

Really, every year, Phil chooses a different set of fall guys. First it was Shump and JR, then Fisher, now Melo and Rose, maybe it's time to blame the coach again next year.

I disagree because the other players actually execute the Triangle better and defend better minus Melo and Rose!!! Now with more time and hopefully some new 2 Way Talent, this team could improve.

So why was Melo getting so many near triple doubles under Fisher last year and you were telling us how he got the Triangle and it was making him better? Am I misremembering that?

The Knicks are worse when Melo and Rose are on the floor. They're a -3.1 with Melo and a -2.6 with Rose. In the 4th Qtr of games this year the Knicks are better without Melo and Rose on the floor. There simply isn't any way around this stuff. They're supposed to be helping make the game easier for everyone else and being a net positive for the team but they aren't.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If the system is so easy and player friendly why isn't any team in the league, d league ,college, over seaseas, re playing it, And I'm not talking aspects of it, im talking a 100% commitment like phils knicks are?

no on earth can answer this, they come back with, the spurs and GSW run aspects of it...

You keep asking stupid questions man. There are a lot of college teams that play it, you just don't who they are, so stop playing dumb and asking dumb questions.

Stupid questions? So being the only team in the NBA who is asked to exclusively run it is "Lots"?
And we should expect a new roster, each year, to learn such a complex system? Laugh when people say its the personnel? We can all act like Phil and the Triangle are not laughed about throughout the NBA. But that will not change reality. We and Phil are viewed as a joke. Plain and simple.

Btw: Article on the Triangle. Everyone should note the personnel Phil won the 11 chips with.

http://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense/

It's serious cuz guys are talking about the triangle like outs a software program.... If it didn't have a name what would you complain about? We have terrible chemistry and Melo and Rose are losers. If you want to blame Phil and the way they want to get organized playing basketball that's on you.... truth is if the Knicks played the dick in tbe butt offense they still would be terrible. Melo and Rose are a bad fit for us.... i could deal with saying Phil shouldn't have signed Melo and never traded for Rose... but constantly taking about the offense like that's the problem sounds like a gay porn skit.

Will take your word for the gay porn thing. Thing is, Melo is gone soon and Rose was only here for one year (Phil brought him here) Agree that it's time to move on from both. Problem is, Melo and Rose have not made this organazation a laughing stock. They were just not good enough to bring us out of being one. You keep missing the point, your fighting for a system that NO ONE else plays for and that will probably not be here in two years. We will have wasted 5 years with Uncle Phil. KP has been thrown into a system that he will probably never play for again, once Phil is gone. Ask yourself if Phil has made us more respected or less? IMO, that's why he was really brought here for. Triangle or not, he has made this a very unattractive destination. If you think he has not contributed do the Dolan legacy of bad decisions, you are sadly mistaken.

Yep. Agreed.

What do you want to bet that when Melo leaves and Rose leaves, around this time next year Phil and Rosen will be quietly blaming Hornacek and KP for the Triangle not working?

I think Hornacek will be the next fall guy, but I could see KP getting some flak, too.

Really, every year, Phil chooses a different set of fall guys. First it was Shump and JR, then Fisher, now Melo and Rose, maybe it's time to blame the coach again next year.

I disagree because the other players actually execute the Triangle better and defend better minus Melo and Rose!!! Now with more time and hopefully some new 2 Way Talent, this team could improve.

So why was Melo getting so many near triple doubles under Fisher last year and you were telling us how he got the Triangle and it was making him better? Am I misremembering that?

We keep doing this dance and it's not really helpful to the discussion. Melo clearly did not buy in the same way this year in his being a team player like the way we joke about him being DadMelo last year. He simply stopped being that player after showing a glimpse into what it could look like if he bought into that role. Why are you trying to present this as if it's the same situation when you know it's not. Melo simply doesn't do enough on both ends to help this team win. Then when you also include Rose that makes it even worse. They are putting up individual numbers but those numbers are empty!!!

The Knicks are worse when Melo and Rose are on the floor. They're a -3.1 with Melo and a -2.6 with Rose. In the 4th Qtr of games this year the Knicks are better without Melo and Rose on the floor. There simply isn't any way around this stuff. They're supposed to be helping make the game easier for everyone else and being a net positive for the team but they aren't.

We get it. You want to be a "scapegoat" away from being a succesful attractive NBA organazation. You will find out how wrong you are in a couple of years when Phil takes his golden parachute and retires in obscurity. And we are stuck with guys that have to start from square one and have been surrounded by dysfunction and losing. Great player development.

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If the system is so easy and player friendly why isn't any team in the league, d league ,college, over seaseas, re playing it, And I'm not talking aspects of it, im talking a 100% commitment like phils knicks are?

no on earth can answer this, they come back with, the spurs and GSW run aspects of it...

You keep asking stupid questions man. There are a lot of college teams that play it, you just don't who they are, so stop playing dumb and asking dumb questions.

Stupid questions? So being the only team in the NBA who is asked to exclusively run it is "Lots"?
And we should expect a new roster, each year, to learn such a complex system? Laugh when people say its the personnel? We can all act like Phil and the Triangle are not laughed about throughout the NBA. But that will not change reality. We and Phil are viewed as a joke. Plain and simple.

Btw: Article on the Triangle. Everyone should note the personnel Phil won the 11 chips with.

http://grantland.com/features/chuck-klosterman-phil-jackson-tex-winter-death-triangle-offense/

It's serious cuz guys are talking about the triangle like outs a software program.... If it didn't have a name what would you complain about? We have terrible chemistry and Melo and Rose are losers. If you want to blame Phil and the way they want to get organized playing basketball that's on you.... truth is if the Knicks played the dick in tbe butt offense they still would be terrible. Melo and Rose are a bad fit for us.... i could deal with saying Phil shouldn't have signed Melo and never traded for Rose... but constantly taking about the offense like that's the problem sounds like a gay porn skit.

Will take your word for the gay porn thing. Thing is, Melo is gone soon and Rose was only here for one year (Phil brought him here) Agree that it's time to move on from both. Problem is, Melo and Rose have not made this organazation a laughing stock. They were just not good enough to bring us out of being one. You keep missing the point, your fighting for a system that NO ONE else plays for and that will probably not be here in two years. We will have wasted 5 years with Uncle Phil. KP has been thrown into a system that he will probably never play for again, once Phil is gone. Ask yourself if Phil has made us more respected or less? IMO, that's why he was really brought here for. Triangle or not, he has made this a very unattractive destination. If you think he has not contributed do the Dolan legacy of bad decisions, you are sadly mistaken.

Yep. Agreed.

What do you want to bet that when Melo leaves and Rose leaves, around this time next year Phil and Rosen will be quietly blaming Hornacek and KP for the Triangle not working?

I think Hornacek will be the next fall guy, but I could see KP getting some flak, too.

Really, every year, Phil chooses a different set of fall guys. First it was Shump and JR, then Fisher, now Melo and Rose, maybe it's time to blame the coach again next year.

I disagree because the other players actually execute the Triangle better and defend better minus Melo and Rose!!! Now with more time and hopefully some new 2 Way Talent, this team could improve.

So why was Melo getting so many near triple doubles under Fisher last year and you were telling us how he got the Triangle and it was making him better? Am I misremembering that?

We keep doing this dance and it's not really helpful to the discussion. Melo clearly did not buy in the same way this year in his being a team player like the way we joke about him being DadMelo last year. He simply stopped being that player after showing a glimpse into what it could look like if he bought into that role. Why are you trying to present this as if it's the same situation when you know it's not. Melo simply doesn't do enough on both ends to help this team win. Then when you also include Rose that makes it even worse. They are putting up individual numbers but those numbers are empty!!!

The Knicks are worse when Melo and Rose are on the floor. They're a -3.1 with Melo and a -2.6 with Rose. In the 4th Qtr of games this year the Knicks are better without Melo and Rose on the floor. There simply isn't any way around this stuff. They're supposed to be helping make the game easier for everyone else and being a net positive for the team but they aren't.

That's one answer. I would say that the Knicks were actually much better coached last year and had a more balanced roster.

The thing I don't trust about Phil and the Triangle is that he doesn't seem to know what he actually needs to make it work here. Think of the two PGs he brought in? DRose and Jose Calderon? Could they be any more different? I just don't know if Phil knows how to get the kind of roster he needs in here. I know you'll say through the draft and while Willy and KP were very good picks... he also has Jerian Grant (19th) and Cleanthony Early (34th) as guys he tabbed for the Triangle but then gave up on very quickly. I think any reasonable fan has a right to be skeptical right now. I truly hope we hit a home run in the draft, we desperately need one. Swinging and missing would hurt.

Just in terms of players he's brought in I think his big money signings have mostly been a disappointment but then you're only really talking about Melo and Noah. CLee and LT are OK. Rose and BJ really have no long term negative impact if he lets Rose walk.

Regarding the young draft picks and UDFA's he's brought in I think his overall work has been more good than bad. KP and Willy are very good and the other young players are looking like they can fit into roles as they continue to develop.

What we're really talking about is finding NEW Impact players for this team. Melo and Rose aren't working but they have options to try and find the right players this summer. This is just part of the process. I don't see any serious issues when it comes to Phil's going with young talent. Aside from a couple of draft picks that they gave up on, there are FAR more young players that they are looking to keep on and further develop and we have the 3 picks in this draft as well.

nyknickzingis wrote:
Then Phil asked Melo what do you think the team needs, he said a point guard. When Phil got that point guard, Melo seems to have gone to the conclusion that he has the green light to shoot and not worry about playmaking. Which is somewhat true, a small forward should have to be concerned with leading the team in assists when you have Rose. Problem is Rose didn't play like a point guard at all. It was essentially two shooting guards out there, maybe 3 if you combine KP as he's naturally a shooting guard as well.