I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

Jackson and the Knicks have a mutual option after this season, and owner James Dolan has said that he will honor the final two years of Jackson's contract. But some around Dolan had been pushing him to consider making a change in recent months, according to sources.

crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

smackeddog wrote:You wonder how the Phil won so many championships with the triangle when apparently it was so easy to defend the whole time...

smackeddog wrote:You wonder how the Phil won so many championships with the triangle when apparently it was so easy to defend the whole time...

Not to be overlooked, he had an all-time great at SG on both of those teams - possibly the two greatest shooting guards of all-time in MJ and Kobe. And he was actually coaching the team. Our teams have had Afflalo and CLee at SG - two solid players who should be the fifth best starter or a bench player on a good team.

If Fisher wasn't coaching the Triangle to his liking and Hornacek wasn't coaching the Triangle to his liking... I think a major question exists - can anyone coach the Triangle to Phil's liking? And if not, should he continue to force them to?

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

smackeddog wrote:You wonder how the Phil won so many championships with the triangle when apparently it was so easy to defend the whole time...

If he were coaching it might not be so easy to defend.

I don't think it's that simple. The players you have running it must be smart enough to understand how to execute in it. One of the most important roles is the SF/PF in the Pinch Post spot. Melo occupies that spot the most and he isn't helping the flow of the offense as much as he could be.

Obviously this year wasn't an effort to establish a Pure Triangle Offense! Not with Rose and BJ at PG. I think now with Randle and Baker are giving the team a chance to establish the Triangle and they look much better in it than Rose. They still need more time to continue to develop their comfort and knowledge of the offense.

KP has started passing more and posting more since they started running more Triangle. Willy is already a bit more proficient as a Post big and I think he has great upside in this style. My hope is that if the Knicks move towards using more Triangle as it appears they are, that they still look to use early offense and different looks to keep the defense guessing.

As I've said many times there's more to the Triangle Offense than the Side Triangle!!!

Nalod wrote:Easy to defend players not executing (For reasons one can only speculate based on agenda bias) or that its so antiquated that todays players are just better defenders they can sniff it a mile away?

Agendas aside, I think it's a question of spacing the floor and the fact that the Knicks are so slow and deliberate to set it up. When they run a triangle set, there's often like 5 seconds left on the shot block before the shot goes up. It doesn't lead to quick offense. Maybe that comes with familiarity? But how long will that take? Is there a time limit? Can we ever build continuity if keep turning over half the roster each off-season? And I don't even think that's unique to the Knicks. The NBA is full of teams that turn over half the roster every off-season.

Look, the Knicks players obviously want to win. They're all frustrated by this season. They don't think the triangle helps them win. Their coach didn't want to use the triangle. The article suggests the team has lost faith in Hornacek because he's gone back to the triangle. I don't have an agenda here - it just doesn't seem like a good situation. And I really wonder what the point is and at what point we say - the triangle is not helping us win games or build a good team.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Easy to defend players not executing (For reasons one can only speculate based on agenda bias) or that its so antiquated that todays players are just better defenders they can sniff it a mile away?

I remember Crowder last year saying the triangle made it much easier to defend Melo because he knew where he was going to be, take his shots etc. That was early in the season and the Celtics crushed the Knicks. The next time they played Melo and KP had great games but Melo roled his ankle on the ref. Things went south on the season right around then.

Have to bust ones ass without the ball. Melo not known to be all that. I used to tell my son to watch Manu Ginobli without the ball and how he would get open or create using screens. The man used to bust his tail. Hornets Marco Belinni has become a good pro by doing similar. Guys that can't create off the dribble can really impact a game by making sharp cuts and working hard. It just opens things up. Melo and Rose have the athletic ability but they are who they are, superior WITH the ball.
Yes, I agree, Melo was very predictable. Is that an indictment on the triangle or the player?7

This just brings us back to the question - do you design an offense that fits the skill sets of your players and play to their strengths?

Or do you try to make them be something they're not?

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.

HofstraBBall wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18941092/nba-unhappy-anniversary-tidings-phil-jackson-three-years-new-york

I know people get prickly about the Triangle, but this is incredibly damning.

Knicks players also saying to Begley that they think it produces too tight spacing and too many contested shots.

We've been told Phil would bring in veterans who would be suited to the Triangle. In three off seasons so far all the players he's brought in have not done well in the triangle, outside of maybe Rolo, who plays the same position as KP and Willy anyway.

I'm not looking to take down Phil or have that conversation again. But I think it certainly is worth asking why are we still committed to the Triangle? Even Hornacek didn't want to run it full time. At a certain point doesn't Phil need to agree to update or scrap the triangle? I thought we were told Hornacek would be allowed to update the Triangle, but that's been overruled.

I just question why at this point.

In this draft alone there are several players who FIT the Triangle. Josh Jackson is a perfect SF for the Triangle. He passes the ball well. Jason Tatum is a more Team Oriented version of Melo IMO. He would be effective in the Pinch Post. Lonzo Ball is also a Triangle Fit. Malik Monk and Frank Ntilikina are also Triangle Fits. I would say that even De'Aaron Fox would fit. So really there's no reason to fear the notion of looking for players that would do well in the Triangle. All that really means is that they can function well without depending on heavy PnR. They have a high BBIQ, pass the ball and defend. Those are all winning traits.

This still does not make any sense? Draft guys for Truangke. Ot wont be here un 2 years?? Let's bring in Pete Carril for one year then Paul Westphal then Paul Westhead for a year. Draft guys foe those systems. That will be great for development.