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whats with Lance Stephenson?
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fishmike
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3/18/2017  2:52 PM
I mean he's 26, he was such an up and coming player. I know he had some baggage but has he not been a good citizen in the NBA? Is he worth a look? I know Minn has some glut at the wing and Lance isnt going to get burn over their young guys but they didnt renew his 10 day contract so he's a FA.

We arent above a reclamation project... this isnt Vin Baker. What's his problem?

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crzymdups
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3/18/2017  3:49 PM
I've always thought he'd be a good fit in the triangle if he had his head on straight. He was playing pretty well for Memphis at the end of last season and then New Orleans at the beginning of this season and then he injured his hamstring or something and they cut him to sign a replacement.

I would absolutely take a flier on him at this point. No reason not to try it.

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fishmike
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3/18/2017  4:38 PM
he's at the perfect age for a reclamation project. If he were to bounce back you could be getting some great years for him. This guy was an elite defender and a guy who really filled out the stat sheet. Sasha? Plumlee?
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CrushAlot
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3/18/2017  4:46 PM
fishmike wrote:he's at the perfect age for a reclamation project. If he were to bounce back you could be getting some great years for him. This guy was an elite defender and a guy who really filled out the stat sheet. Sasha? Plumlee?
I think Sasha or NDour. You could probably bring either guy back.
I've seen scant proof that a majestic aura trumps a sound plan, but maybe that's just because I wasn't looking at Phil Jackson... Seth Rosenthal 2014
smackeddog
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3/18/2017  5:20 PM
Wolves aren't re-signing him due to lingering ankle issues, not because of his performance
EnySpree
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3/19/2017  1:40 PM
He'd be the best ball handler and defender on the team If we signed him.
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WaltLongmire
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3/19/2017  1:45 PM
Think he regrets leaving Indiana? Had a great situation there.

Would never want him because you simply cannot depend on him to be a consistent performer.

He looked like he was going to be a fixture with the Pacers... not he's a nomad. Crazy.

EnySpree: Can we agree to agree not to mention Phil Jackson and triangle for the rest of our lives?
meloshouldgo
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3/19/2017  4:40 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Think he regrets leaving Indiana? Had a great situation there.

Would never want him because you simply cannot depend on him to be a consistent performer.

He looked like he was going to be a fixture with the Pacers... not he's a nomad. Crazy.

Agree. We need savvy dependable vets who will coach our youth. Lance is neither savvy nor dependable.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
TripleThreat
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3/19/2017  5:21 PM
Back when the NFL draft had a debate on whether Peyton Manning OR Ryan Leaf should be the first overall pick, there were reports that a respected coach wrote this about Ryan Leaf

"The kind of player who would sit on the TV and watch the couch"

In the end, the Colts made the right decision. As the rumors go, during an interview, Peyton Manning walked up to the Colts owner, and said I hope you draft me, and if you don't, I'll spend the next 15 years making you pay for that decision. I'll make it a point to beat down on your team without mercy.

As Charles Barkley parrots, you can't fix stupid. Lance Stephenson is a world of talent, who sits on the TV and watches the couch. He's a locker room mess and plays out of control. Which would be fine if he was strictly a defensive stopper or the old style NBA enforcer ( i.e. a John Salley type) which is no longer accepted in the league, but as a legit rotation wing, he gives up more than he offers.

Steve Blake was a pretty mediocre player, but he knew his role and played within his role and limitations. Stephenson has 10,000 times the talent of Blake, sometimes it's not about raw talent, you have to be able to meld yourself into a role and system.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
crzymdups
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3/19/2017  5:22 PM
WaltLongmire wrote:Think he regrets leaving Indiana? Had a great situation there.

Would never want him because you simply cannot depend on him to be a consistent performer.

He looked like he was going to be a fixture with the Pacers... not he's a nomad. Crazy.

That's fair. But we aren't going to get much in free agency. I'd be okay on a low risk deal for Lance. Maybe something the Derrick Williams deal, but the second year is a team option not a player option.

¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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3/19/2017  5:26 PM
TripleThreat wrote:Back when the NFL draft had a debate on whether Peyton Manning OR Ryan Leaf should be the first overall pick, there were reports that a respected coach wrote this about Ryan Leaf

"The kind of player who would sit on the TV and watch the couch"

In the end, the Colts made the right decision. As the rumors go, during an interview, Peyton Manning walked up to the Colts owner, and said I hope you draft me, and if you don't, I'll spend the next 15 years making you pay for that decision. I'll make it a point to beat down on your team without mercy.

As Charles Barkley parrots, you can't fix stupid. Lance Stephenson is a world of talent, who sits on the TV and watches the couch. He's a locker room mess and plays out of control. Which would be fine if he was strictly a defensive stopper or the old style NBA enforcer ( i.e. a John Salley type) which is no longer accepted in the league, but as a legit rotation wing, he gives up more than he offers.

Steve Blake was a pretty mediocre player, but he knew his role and played within his role and limitations. Stephenson has 10,000 times the talent of Blake, sometimes it's not about raw talent, you have to be able to meld yourself into a role and system.

That's a good post. Good points. Yeah, Lance had the talent to be a better offensive version of Artest, but he was even more uncoachable than Ron in the end.

Still, if we're gonna look at the triangle again... Lance's best season came when the Pacers were running something close to the triangle with Brian Shaw as offensive coordinator. He's a playmaker from the wing position - something we haven't had for Phil's entire tenure here and something it seems the triangle might need. (Thinking of Odom and Pippen, and also MJ and Kobe). This is why I covet Josh Jackson in the upcoming draft.

But chances are we don't get Josh Jackson, unless there's some sort of miracle. I think I'd take a risk on Lance. He looked really good for Memphis last year and New Orleans to start this year. I'd say he's worth a low risk, make good contract. Though there are constant whispers that he has too many bad influences in the NYC area since he grew up here and that's certainly worth paying attention to and considering.

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nykshaknbake
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3/19/2017  7:46 PM
There's virtually no risk in taking a flyer on Stephenson. Money won't be an issue. Team cohesion is already at the basement.
meloshouldgo
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3/19/2017  9:04 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:There's virtually no risk in taking a flyer on Stephenson. Money won't be an issue. Team cohesion is already at the basement.

Theres a definite and real risk. We don't want to get helped into a couple of extra meaningless wins. It would destroy our lottery chances.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
VCoug
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3/19/2017  9:23 PM
fishmike wrote:I mean he's 26, he was such an up and coming player. I know he had some baggage but has he not been a good citizen in the NBA? Is he worth a look? I know Minn has some glut at the wing and Lance isnt going to get burn over their young guys but they didnt renew his 10 day contract so he's a FA.

We arent above a reclamation project... this isnt Vin Baker. What's his problem?

He's an ******* and his teammates don't like him. When he hit free agency with Indy, team management went to the rest of the team and asked if they should bring him back. None of his teammates wanted him.

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TripleThreat
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3/19/2017  11:19 PM
crzymdups wrote:I'd be okay on a low risk deal for Lance....


Here is how Stephenson can help himself

A) Learn to hit the three point shot at an elite rate. He has the talent for it, the raw ability, at this point, he just needs to put in the hard work. If any NBA player is not working on to improve their 3 point shot to a league average level, or working to get it to an elite level, then they are idiots. This is like anyone on the Yankees refusing to improve their bat speed if they can find a way to help themselves. Or a pitcher not working on finding that 3rd effective pitch on the mound as a starter.

B) Convert himself into a point guard. The guy simply needs the ball in his hands to function on the court. Trying to get him to play another way might be futile. There is nothing wrong with being ball dominant as long as

- No one else on the floor is also ball dominant
- You are a distributor
- You can create your own shot consistently

The problem with Born Ready is he can create his own shot sometimes, and those sometimes are in streaks. This is when he becomes unstoppable. But he can't do it all the time, which drives everyone insane because he doesn't understand when to throttle up or tone it down on the court. He can be very effective as a matchup play, but he doesn't play in control enough to exploit those matchups. In that regard, he's very much like Kendall Gill used to be.

Forcing him to be a distributor, if he can get over the mental hurdle, would force him to take responsibility for his teammates on the floor. At some of those rehab work farms/camps for kids, sometimes the best way to fix a broken kid is to force him to lead others and be responsible for others.

If he could reinvent himself as a 3 And D combo guard with the ability to distribute in a team format, he could be very very valuable.

He would need to be paired with a player like Andre Miller or a Derek Harper/Doc Rivers type of player, someone who could get him under control. John Lucas might have been able to help him. Nate McMillan, Mark Price, there are tons of former players who could probably heal his problems if he would humble himself enough to see he needs to reinvent his game to stay in the NBA.

Which all goes back to the Melo tragedy as a player. Melo will likely enter the HOF as a compiler, but his "natural" gifts are/were so off the chart, he'd be one of the best players ever, not just HOF but right the top of the conversation like an Oscar Robertson, if he just put in the hard work and wasn't such a selfish player. Born Ready, unlike Melo, doesn't have the natural talent to just coast. He does reflect how players who do coast are always tragic. I wonder if Melo will be old, surrounded by crates of his personal cologne and branded failed fashion line that didn't sell, seeing his chain of cell phone stores go broke as hover cars go by, ignoring the calls of his ex wife, who tried to bang Omar Epps in a failed attempt to get on a TV show, and wonder why he didn't do more to win and do more to leave it all on the floor. It's not just poor people and people without a natural gift in life who have a world of regret.

The NBA requires such a rare skill set to succeed that it's just a ready made environment for public sports tragedies at work.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
Bonn1997
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3/20/2017  7:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/20/2017  8:00 AM
TripleThreat wrote:
crzymdups wrote:I'd be okay on a low risk deal for Lance....


Here is how Stephenson can help himself

A) Learn to hit the three point shot at an elite rate. He has the talent for it, the raw ability, at this point, he just needs to put in the hard work. If any NBA player is not working on to improve their 3 point shot to a league average level, or working to get it to an elite level, then they are idiots. This is like anyone on the Yankees refusing to improve their bat speed if they can find a way to help themselves. Or a pitcher not working on finding that 3rd effective pitch on the mound as a starter.

B) Convert himself into a point guard. The guy simply needs the ball in his hands to function on the court. Trying to get him to play another way might be futile. There is nothing wrong with being ball dominant as long as

- No one else on the floor is also ball dominant
- You are a distributor
- You can create your own shot consistently

The problem with Born Ready is he can create his own shot sometimes, and those sometimes are in streaks. This is when he becomes unstoppable. But he can't do it all the time, which drives everyone insane because he doesn't understand when to throttle up or tone it down on the court. He can be very effective as a matchup play, but he doesn't play in control enough to exploit those matchups. In that regard, he's very much like Kendall Gill used to be.

Forcing him to be a distributor, if he can get over the mental hurdle, would force him to take responsibility for his teammates on the floor. At some of those rehab work farms/camps for kids, sometimes the best way to fix a broken kid is to force him to lead others and be responsible for others.

If he could reinvent himself as a 3 And D combo guard with the ability to distribute in a team format, he could be very very valuable.

He would need to be paired with a player like Andre Miller or a Derek Harper/Doc Rivers type of player, someone who could get him under control. John Lucas might have been able to help him. Nate McMillan, Mark Price, there are tons of former players who could probably heal his problems if he would humble himself enough to see he needs to reinvent his game to stay in the NBA.

Which all goes back to the Melo tragedy as a player. Melo will likely enter the HOF as a compiler, but his "natural" gifts are/were so off the chart, he'd be one of the best players ever, not just HOF but right the top of the conversation like an Oscar Robertson, if he just put in the hard work and wasn't such a selfish player. Born Ready, unlike Melo, doesn't have the natural talent to just coast. He does reflect how players who do coast are always tragic. I wonder if Melo will be old, surrounded by crates of his personal cologne and branded failed fashion line that didn't sell, seeing his chain of cell phone stores go broke as hover cars go by, ignoring the calls of his ex wife, who tried to bang Omar Epps in a failed attempt to get on a TV show, and wonder why he didn't do more to win and do more to leave it all on the floor. It's not just poor people and people without a natural gift in life who have a world of regret.

The NBA requires such a rare skill set to succeed that it's just a ready made environment for public sports tragedies at work.

I don't disagree with what you're saying but I'd add a few things. He should become a better 3 point shooter, but if he can't, he needs to stop taking 3s! There's nothing worse than a guy who can't hit 3s taking 2 or 3 a game. It's harder but you can still be a good guard if you can't shoot 3s. He needs to improve his FT shooting percentage, though. That's a problem you can't work around as easily. And he needs to get to the line much more. A guard who's averaging 11 FG attempts per 36 needs to be getting far more than 1 or 2 points per 36 from the free throw line. He needs to at least double that.

whats with Lance Stephenson?

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