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Do we really need to draft a star pg to run the triangle or should we draft a more glaring hole at the sg position
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VCoug
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3/18/2017  9:34 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:If we move Melo to the Clippers for Rivers/Crawford/#1 pick and Crawford/#1 goes to a third team as a salary dump, that allows us to get Rivers, maybe draft Monk. If we drafted a player like Monk and paired him with Rivers, Rivers is one of the few players who has SG size with PG handles and skill. So in which case you could get away with a player of Monk's size who isn't really a poiny guard, despite PG size. Then you'd also have more capspace having shed some of Melo's deal and also allowing Rose to walk.

Willy/O'Quinn/Noah
KP/Thomas/Kuzminskas
SF/Holiday
Monk/Lee
Rivers/Baker/Randle

Would have like 35$ million in space to add a starting SF, some bench talent. Make a FA push for Gordon Hayward, Otto Porter, Gallinari,
Or lesser names like Kyle Korver and Patty Mills.

We're not doing anything earth shattering. Just get good solid players that fit into the system and allow the young players to grow. Say what you want about Jose Calderon, Joakim Noah and Lance Thomas type of players, they don't stop young players from devloping and are good mentors/locker room guys. That's what we need around KP, Willy, 2017 lotto pick, whomever we trade Melo for, and other young developing players like Holiday/Baker/Randle/Kuz.

Even this team while likely a 30 win team wouldn't upset me because it'd keep us in the 2018 lottery allow young players to develop.

Noah/Hernangomez/O'Quinn
KP/Kuzminskas/Thomas
Korver/Holiday
Monk/Lee/Baker
Rivers/Mills/Randle

Are you suggesting that we trade a 1st round pick, the only asset we're getting back in your theoretical Melo trade, in order to dump Crawford? Why would we do that? Crawford would essentially be an expiring contract next season (he has a $3M buyout).

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CrushAlot
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3/18/2017  11:54 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:We can't start planning like Melo will waive his NTC. He is too fukking selfish to do it, not to mention stupid. We may have to see him take away PT from our young guys again next year. This is what happens when your team is at the mercy of weak minded selfish jerks that think they are "stars". There is really zero motivation for him to leave. All he cares about is Melo. It's NOT about winning for him. As much as I hate to think about it he will most likely stay.
It is what happens when the guy that gives him his contract doesn't know what he is doing.

How about personal responsibility to the player? Melo stepped back from being more of a facilitator as he showed last year. He's not giving max effort. To get the contract he did should've motivated him to do all he can to live up to that contract!!! No one would be talking about Melo leaving if he was giving max effort and being the team player and leader he should be!!!

He's older. I think you could predict his decline. No one is facilitating on the Knicks right now. KP on the offense,
Porzingis said. "A lot of times it's -- especially one on one -- whoever it is, myself, Carmelo [Anthony], Derrick [Rose], Courtney [Lee], we try to make something happen and that's not how it's supposed to be. It's very random."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18895941/new-york-knicks-kristaps-porzingis-says-there-confusion-top-bottom-organization

Excuses always at the ready for Melo. SMH
Then again he has never actually given max effort, so I guess it's ok for him to slack off so Phil can take the blame. Glad we are moving from this loser, whether he stays or goes.

The huge trade kicker and ntc were dumb moves made by Phil. Not sure how you can spin that. Melo is not movable.
Phil gave Melo a trade kicker that is 15% of his remaining salary. This is from a Clippers blog written when it looked like there was a slight chance that he could be traded there.
First of all, Anthony has a trade kicker worth 15% of his remaining contract. For 41 more games this year and 82 games each of the next two years, Anthony is scheduled to make $66,451,590. 15% of that salary is $9,967,739, and because the final year of Anthony’s deal is following an early termination option, that bonus must be split between the two guaranteed years of his contract. That extra $4,983,869 this year moves his salary up to $29,543,249. In order to match that salary, they’d have to send out about $23,554,600.
http://www.clipsnation.com/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers
I think we know what we're doing..... Phil Jackson
nixluva
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3/19/2017  12:12 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:We can't start planning like Melo will waive his NTC. He is too fukking selfish to do it, not to mention stupid. We may have to see him take away PT from our young guys again next year. This is what happens when your team is at the mercy of weak minded selfish jerks that think they are "stars". There is really zero motivation for him to leave. All he cares about is Melo. It's NOT about winning for him. As much as I hate to think about it he will most likely stay.
It is what happens when the guy that gives him his contract doesn't know what he is doing.

How about personal responsibility to the player? Melo stepped back from being more of a facilitator as he showed last year. He's not giving max effort. To get the contract he did should've motivated him to do all he can to live up to that contract!!! No one would be talking about Melo leaving if he was giving max effort and being the team player and leader he should be!!!

He's older. I think you could predict his decline. No one is facilitating on the Knicks right now. KP on the offense,
Porzingis said. "A lot of times it's -- especially one on one -- whoever it is, myself, Carmelo [Anthony], Derrick [Rose], Courtney [Lee], we try to make something happen and that's not how it's supposed to be. It's very random."
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18895941/new-york-knicks-kristaps-porzingis-says-there-confusion-top-bottom-organization

Excuses always at the ready for Melo. SMH
Then again he has never actually given max effort, so I guess it's ok for him to slack off so Phil can take the blame. Glad we are moving from this loser, whether he stays or goes.

The huge trade kicker and ntc were dumb moves made by Phil. Not sure how you can spin that. Melo is not movable.
Phil gave Melo a trade kicker that is 15% of his remaining salary. This is from a Clippers blog written when it looked like there was a slight chance that he could be traded there.
First of all, Anthony has a trade kicker worth 15% of his remaining contract. For 41 more games this year and 82 games each of the next two years, Anthony is scheduled to make $66,451,590. 15% of that salary is $9,967,739, and because the final year of Anthony’s deal is following an early termination option, that bonus must be split between the two guaranteed years of his contract. That extra $4,983,869 this year moves his salary up to $29,543,249. In order to match that salary, they’d have to send out about $23,554,600.
http://www.clipsnation.com/2017/1/21/14344586/nba-trade-rumors-carmelo-anthony-clippers-knicks-bonus-jamal-crawford-austin-rivers

Melo doesn't have to go but he does need to start being a better team player. He's going to have to sacrifice minutes and shots. He'd going to have to actually expend some of his energy on D rather than Offense. He needs to return to being DadMelo and help the younger players to develop. He's got his money and will have his milestone records set. He needs to be a real mentor and team leader now.

ESOMKnicks
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3/19/2017  5:24 AM
Given how Phil was hounded for getting a low return on trading chandler, then jr and iman, had he let melo walk away, he'd be crucified for losing the team's only superstar and asset for nothing. And the ntc and kicker were the price he had to pay to keep a top player on a weak team from chasing a chip elsewhere.
ESOMKnicks
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3/19/2017  5:28 AM
And dont see how gallinari can help at this stage. Definitely a mediocre player whose best role is as a 7th or 8th option off the bench for a playoff team.
TripleThreat
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3/19/2017  7:03 AM
ESOMKnicks wrote:Given how Phil was hounded for getting a low return on trading chandler, then jr and iman, had he let melo walk away, he'd be crucified for losing the team's only superstar and asset for nothing. And the ntc and kicker were the price he had to pay to keep a top player on a weak team from chasing a chip elsewhere.

Jackson bet wrong.

Melo simply wants to be in NY. It means more to him than winning and other than max dollars, it's clear his "branding" means more than anything else.

All Jackson had to do was say, OK, if you want, leave NY. But unfortunately that didn't happen.

Would Melo have left money on the table to leave NY? Nothing indicates he's ever left money on the table.

Since you came on this board you have been way off in regards to trade value. - Briggs 7/28/2015
nyknickzingis
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3/19/2017  7:47 AM
VCoug wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:If we move Melo to the Clippers for Rivers/Crawford/#1 pick and Crawford/#1 goes to a third team as a salary dump, that allows us to get Rivers, maybe draft Monk. If we drafted a player like Monk and paired him with Rivers, Rivers is one of the few players who has SG size with PG handles and skill. So in which case you could get away with a player of Monk's size who isn't really a poiny guard, despite PG size. Then you'd also have more capspace having shed some of Melo's deal and also allowing Rose to walk.

Willy/O'Quinn/Noah
KP/Thomas/Kuzminskas
SF/Holiday
Monk/Lee
Rivers/Baker/Randle

Would have like 35$ million in space to add a starting SF, some bench talent. Make a FA push for Gordon Hayward, Otto Porter, Gallinari,
Or lesser names like Kyle Korver and Patty Mills.

We're not doing anything earth shattering. Just get good solid players that fit into the system and allow the young players to grow. Say what you want about Jose Calderon, Joakim Noah and Lance Thomas type of players, they don't stop young players from devloping and are good mentors/locker room guys. That's what we need around KP, Willy, 2017 lotto pick, whomever we trade Melo for, and other young developing players like Holiday/Baker/Randle/Kuz.

Even this team while likely a 30 win team wouldn't upset me because it'd keep us in the 2018 lottery allow young players to develop.

Noah/Hernangomez/O'Quinn
KP/Kuzminskas/Thomas
Korver/Holiday
Monk/Lee/Baker
Rivers/Mills/Randle

Are you suggesting that we trade a 1st round pick, the only asset we're getting back in your theoretical Melo trade, in order to dump Crawford? Why would we do that? Crawford would essentially be an expiring contract next season (he has a $3M buyout).


I haven't fully investigated what picks the Clippers have, but if it's a near future pick it will be in the late 20's of the first round which is almost like a second round pick. Also what are the protections?

To me capspace is more valuable than a lower first round pick with protections. If it were a mid first round or higher pick, totally different. Where the Clippers usually draft, it's easy to get into that spot via trade anyway. Many teams sell their picks in the 20's.

I would not trade the pick if it were a pick without heavy protection, or a few years into the future. I don't see us getting that kind of pick from the Clippers, because had we, Melo would have been dealt by now. The market for Melo is (IMO) one young starter, one bad contract bench player, one low first round or two second round picks. You're not going to do better than that, anywhere. He's 33 and on his way down, and has a massive trade kicker and a massive contract.

Chandler
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3/19/2017  10:23 AM
Food for thought: assume lakers and celts are near the top of draft

What are they going to do w Russell, smart, rozier et al?

They may be tempted to trade back slightly if the top 2 or 3 players are pgs

DJMUSIC: Fisher talked a good game in Post game but aside from that Derek Fisher was ALL CHIT CHAT SH_t and produced nothing!
Rookie
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3/19/2017  11:13 AM
Phil, at his age with 2 years left on his contract and having failed to establish the triangle culture is unlikely to be the president after his contract expires. It would be short sighted to draft a system (triangle) PG over the best talent available. Any president coming in after Phil will let the coach run the offense. Doubtful the next guy in forces the triangle. Considering rookie contracts are 4 years and Phil 2 years left, not a good idea to draft a triangle PG
meloshouldgo
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3/19/2017  12:35 PM
ESOMKnicks wrote:Given how Phil was hounded for getting a low return on trading chandler, then jr and iman, had he let melo walk away, he'd be crucified for losing the team's only superstar and asset for nothing. And the ntc and kicker were the price he had to pay to keep a top player on a weak team from chasing a chip elsewhere.

SSSHHH!!! They might hear you.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
meloshouldgo
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3/19/2017  12:37 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
ESOMKnicks wrote:Given how Phil was hounded for getting a low return on trading chandler, then jr and iman, had he let melo walk away, he'd be crucified for losing the team's only superstar and asset for nothing. And the ntc and kicker were the price he had to pay to keep a top player on a weak team from chasing a chip elsewhere.

Jackson bet wrong.

Melo simply wants to be in NY. It means more to him than winning and other than max dollars, it's clear his "branding" means more than anything else.

All Jackson had to do was say, OK, if you want, leave NY. But unfortunately that didn't happen.

Would Melo have left money on the table to leave NY? Nothing indicates he's ever left money on the table.

Agree with this. Giving him an NTC was stupid, never said otherwise. I had really hoped he would have given him a 80MM deal, and told him to take it or leave it. There was no market for this loser even then.

The only things that trickle down are wages and horse shit
nixluva
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3/19/2017  12:59 PM
Rookie wrote:Phil, at his age with 2 years left on his contract and having failed to establish the triangle culture is unlikely to be the president after his contract expires. It would be short sighted to draft a system (triangle) PG over the best talent available. Any president coming in after Phil will let the coach run the offense. Doubtful the next guy in forces the triangle. Considering rookie contracts are 4 years and Phil 2 years left, not a good idea to draft a triangle PG

Lonzo Ball, Frank Ntilikina and Malik Monk are not Ball Dominant Guards and they aren't PnR dominant either. They are Triangle Capable guards. So really this is not as bad as people tend to try and make it seem. There are other NCAA PG's that have similar games to these players. Even De'Aaron Fox gives the ball up early much of the time. The main thing is Court Vision, BBIQ and being unselfish. Helps to be able to shoot and drive when needed. Really helps to be a good defender as well. Usually you want some size so that the guard can be effective on D against more than just PG's.
Rookie
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3/19/2017  2:56 PM
nixluva wrote:
Rookie wrote:Phil, at his age with 2 years left on his contract and having failed to establish the triangle culture is unlikely to be the president after his contract expires. It would be short sighted to draft a system (triangle) PG over the best talent available. Any president coming in after Phil will let the coach run the offense. Doubtful the next guy in forces the triangle. Considering rookie contracts are 4 years and Phil 2 years left, not a good idea to draft a triangle PG

Lonzo Ball, Frank Ntilikina and Malik Monk are not Ball Dominant Guards and they aren't PnR dominant either. They are Triangle Capable guards. So really this is not as bad as people tend to try and make it seem. There are other NCAA PG's that have similar games to these players. Even De'Aaron Fox gives the ball up early much of the time. The main thing is Court Vision, BBIQ and being unselfish. Helps to be able to shoot and drive when needed. Really helps to be a good defender as well. Usually you want some size so that the guard can be effective on D against more than just PG's.

Latest mock drafts have all those guys except Ntilikina and Dennis Smith off the board when we pick. We need to draft higher then 7-8.

Moonangie
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3/20/2017  11:59 AM
I think we should absolutely take the BPA, without regard to position. Talent trumps all. That said, my hope is that we luck into a top 5 pick and end up with one of Ball, Fultz, Jackson. Those are the three best players in this draft.
Paris907
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3/20/2017  5:15 PM
The Triangle will come and go with Phil. Meanwhile our rebuilt wil long outlast thr Triangle. I realize we need a SG or Sf and if JJ or Tatum are there I say do it. If not grab fox. He's young, coschable, plays D, and can score as needed. As far as Melo to the Clippers, I'm not into Rivers. Let's tht roataion be Randle Fox Baker Lee and Holiday and see what second round brings. Don't spend on a free agent SF yet.
BigDaddyG
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3/20/2017  5:55 PM
Moonangie wrote:I think we should absolutely take the BPA, without regard to position. Talent trumps all. That said, my hope is that we luck into a top 5 pick and end up with one of Ball, Fultz, Jackson. Those are the three best players in this draft.

I'll throw this out there. What do you think of us grabbing Lauri Markonnen if we don't land top 5 and Jackson and Tatum are off the board? I'm under no illusions that we're simply a PG away from contending in a year or two. He's Lauri is probably two years away, but can you imagine how versatile our frontcourt would be? Pick and rolls with 2 seven footers with three-point range. I like what I hear about the Euro point guard, but I haven't seen him play. I have seen Markonnen and I like the potential. I like Fox, but point guards take a while to develop and his J may never come along. Just throwing out there.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Do we really need to draft a star pg to run the triangle or should we draft a more glaring hole at the sg position

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