franco12 wrote:This is worse because Phil turned the roster over and paid big bucks for Noah, Lee, Rose.

He thought he had players that could win.

Yes we have our picks and a bit of cap room, though we must wait and see what happens with Rose.

How can we trust Phil to build a winner if he thought he had one this year?

Luck in the draft does not overcome poor judgement as exercised with Noah, Lee, Rose failure.

I'm sorry dude but Layden and Isiah did far worse than Noah and Lee with any expiring Rose. Its not even a blip inn the radar

EnySpree wrote:

franco12 wrote:This is worse because Phil turned the roster over and paid big bucks for Noah, Lee, Rose.

He thought he had players that could win.

Yes we have our picks and a bit of cap room, though we must wait and see what happens with Rose.

How can we trust Phil to build a winner if he thought he had one this year?

Luck in the draft does not overcome poor judgement as exercised with Noah, Lee, Rose failure.

I'm sorry dude but Layden and Isiah did far worse than Noah and Lee with any expiring Rose. Its not even a blip inn the radar

You asked if this was worse than 2013/14.

Not is Phil worse than Isiah or Layden.

I honestly forget what my expectations were going in to 2013/14. Maybe I could look it up here, and remind myself.

It's been so many brutal years, like torture, you try to forget to cope.

I'm just saying that 37 wins coming off a highly successful season is not as bad as year 3 of Phil's effort to rebuild where he made marquee moves & had undoubtedly expectations that with his talent infusion, we'd be at least a passable to watch team.

This season has been like a bad horror movie. Ugly to watch at every turn.

And that is NOT what Phil expected.

So I ask you, how do you trust his judgement, when he erred so badly?

You can point to 2 draft picks and a couple undrafted players that have thrived when given the opportunity because they're playing on a team bereft of talent.

Right now, Phil is bottom third, maybe even bottom 10th of execs in this league.

Rose health has exceeded expectations but his play does not.
Knicks have players that reject playing team ball. Some of you blame the triangle, but isn't it just that its players who don't hustle off the ball to get open? Play defense?
Its antiquated because the modern player is lazy? Disinterested?
Winning teams are not those things.

I'd rather fail striving for the culture we seek in the short term than succumb to mediocrity.

franco12 wrote:This is worse because Phil turned the roster over and paid big bucks for Noah, Lee, Rose.

He thought he had players that could win.

Yes we have our picks and a bit of cap room, though we must wait and see what happens with Rose.

How can we trust Phil to build a winner if he thought he had one this year?

Luck in the draft does not overcome poor judgement as exercised with Noah, Lee, Rose failure.

Lee is playing great for us. Rose was always a rental. Noah was a bad signing on paper, but IMO Jax signed him for his intangibles, and possibly to become an asst coach after the contract. He's got abundant leadership qualities, which as we all know is somewhat rare in the NBA. Once Melo and Rose are gone, Noah's impact on Willy and KP will become apparent. And then we will be lauding the deal.

Nalod wrote:If noah had any part in Willy's development, he was not a total disaster.

I think you sign a player mostly for their individual impact on the court but with Noah I wouldn't be surprised if the intent was to also provide a KG-like mentor for KP and Willy.

Rose was able to bounce back from his injuries, let's hope Noah can continue.

I've brought this up before: I do believe Noah had some personal off-court issues that remain out of the newspapers - thank god - and may have distracted him enough. And then his knee. He is a warrior and played through cause of the newly signed contract but he may have been suffering from that all along. Knee problems lead to hamstring problems and vice versa. Hope he finds health.

EnySpree wrote:That's the season after the 54 win season... we won 37 games that year. We had the same roster minus all the 40 year old alpha male babysitter club. That to me was the worst year of all because we didn't even have a 2014 first round pick. That wasn't on Phil's watch so you would have to blame someone else for that.

Everyone is saying the Knicks can't even tank right this season but we did get Kristaps in 2015 by dumping players for nothing and relying on Lou Amondson and Lance Thomas to play heavy minutes.

This year we know what it is... Melo got old. Rose sucks. Team has no leadership... Brandon Jennings said that going out the door. We are tanking cuz if we were trying to win we would have gotten Rubio and started playing the youth. We're getting a top lottery pick and our cap is fine... this is no way the worst season and no way Phil is just dogging it. It is what it is. This is a rebuild

EnySpree wrote:This is a rebuild

What's happening is not a rebuild.

A rebuild would have required

A) Phil Jackson immediately hiring a GM, a young guy with real front office experience from a winning franchise like the Spurs or Warriors with a possible long term future ahead of him, someone who had established relationships with officials, agents, scouts, sponsors, other front officer people, etc with some background in analytics and then Jackson would take a ceremonial role like Jerry West took with the Warriors

B) Trade Melo upon entry to the franchise

C) Trade Chandler, JR Smith and Shumpert for whatever you could get

D) Tank at every instance where it would be beneficial and practical

E) Avoid short term moves that might look good for marketing but bad for the long term outlook of the franchise

That would have been a "rebuild" and if the Knicks did it, would be in a better place for it.

Jackson has hurt this franchise and hurt it very badly. No, he's not Zeke, but some people want to ride the crappy reasoning that those are the only two possible outcomes, Jackson or something so horrible and worse that Jackson or anyone would look good in contrast. As if those were the only two viable options possible back then.

This current version of the Knicks is not a "rebuild", it's following the path of least resistance to an old man, who is cashing in on a Golden Parachute Knicks retirement plan.