We gave Kuz ndour Plumlee and randle a total 5 minutes combined -- this is not what the lakers are trying to do ( and a few others) but we simply just stink that bad. The only thing this shows the fan is we are a bad team as is.

The look on Dolans face was worth the price of admission-- losing to his Nets. They try to keep his face off at msg but that shot towards the end of the game was funny-- grumpy old man

BRIGGS wrote:But are still losing games regardless. Losing to the Nets two in a row-- playing Carmelo near 40 minutes.

We gave Kuz ndour Plumlee and randle a total 5 minutes combined -- this is not what the lakers are trying to do ( and a few others) but we simply just stink that bad. The only thing this shows the fan is we are a bad team as is.

The look on Dolans face was worth the price of admission-- losing to his Nets. They try to keep his face off at msg but that shot towards the end of the game was funny-- grumpy old man

The purpose if tanking is to get better odds in the lottery, it is NOT to develop young players. In most cases the second is a side benefit of the first because on most teams the vets are better players than the youth group. On the Knicks the Vets suck, so playing them actually improves our chances of losing games. So while it may not fit the established formula for tanking we may be doing what gives us a chance to lose against the worst team in the NBA.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:What positives came out of maxing out melo? How did the team improve? I think that was one of many Phil mistakes. And in general that's where u see his rookie skills. But just like players, Phil has some upside. Too bad he's using Dolan as his punching bag. Soon he will take his talents to a warmer climate. I don't blame him. I've been living in Dallas for 3 weeks now, and i dont miss the cold and snow storms.

im still convinced that was a dolan decision. I dont think phil had any intention of giving melo that ridiculous deal back then. Phil has made his mistakes no doubt about it but i blame dolan on that one just like the original trade.

I agree. I think Dolan said you have your say on all things basketball except you need to sign Melo.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:What positives came out of maxing out melo? How did the team improve? I think that was one of many Phil mistakes. And in general that's where u see his rookie skills. But just like players, Phil has some upside. Too bad he's using Dolan as his punching bag. Soon he will take his talents to a warmer climate. I don't blame him. I've been living in Dallas for 3 weeks now, and i dont miss the cold and snow storms.

im still convinced that was a dolan decision. I dont think phil had any intention of giving melo that ridiculous deal back then. Phil has made his mistakes no doubt about it but i blame dolan on that one just like the original trade.

I agree. I think Dolan said you have your say on all things basketball except you need to sign Melo.

im pretty positive that was the case which is why dolan threw in the no trade and trade kicker. Like i said im not defending phil because he has made some ghastly errors but not on that one

Me personally I don't feel Dolan mandated that Phil had to keep Melo. There is no hard evidence that supports he was mandated to do so. I think Phil made the decision because at the end of the day he had no choice. Not because of Dolan but because that's where we were basketball wise.

We had one first round draft pick over the next 3 years during this time. Even with Melo getting his contract we had what 30 mil to play with and ended up with Robin Lopez, Affalo, Williams, Seraphin as the best of the players willing to come here. Everyone else resigned with there teams or went to contenders. Then freed up another 30 mil this past off season.

Now imagine letting Melo walk, having no draft picks, and relying on FA. All teams have cleaned up there cap situation over the years as well. So unlike the past there isn't much unwanted contracts that you can eat for picks.

Going in the hope that Melo would respond to a legend like Phil. Melo bringing his game to new levels was the better shot to take then letting Melo leave based off of our other options. And I could imaging what the reaction today would be if Phil let Melo walk. The narrative would be about Phil's ego thinking he could just let a guy like Melo go. How due to the triangle we sacrificed a star like Melo. Of course people will bring up how we could just trade Melo but that isn't realistic since Melo controlled who he would play for due to having an expiring contract.

When it comes to Melo, Phil made the only move he could. Melo just didn't hold up his end of the deal. What you could knock Phil for was not getting more out of the Tyson Chandler trade. Waiting to long to unload Shumpert when he had value.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:What positives came out of maxing out melo? How did the team improve? I think that was one of many Phil mistakes. And in general that's where u see his rookie skills. But just like players, Phil has some upside. Too bad he's using Dolan as his punching bag. Soon he will take his talents to a warmer climate. I don't blame him. I've been living in Dallas for 3 weeks now, and i dont miss the cold and snow storms.

im still convinced that was a dolan decision. I dont think phil had any intention of giving melo that ridiculous deal back then. Phil has made his mistakes no doubt about it but i blame dolan on that one just like the original trade.

I agree. I think Dolan said you have your say on all things basketball except you need to sign Melo.

im pretty positive that was the case which is why dolan threw in the no trade and trade kicker. Like i said im not defending phil because he has made some ghastly errors but not on that one

StarksEwing1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:What positives came out of maxing out melo? How did the team improve? I think that was one of many Phil mistakes. And in general that's where u see his rookie skills. But just like players, Phil has some upside. Too bad he's using Dolan as his punching bag. Soon he will take his talents to a warmer climate. I don't blame him. I've been living in Dallas for 3 weeks now, and i dont miss the cold and snow storms.

im still convinced that was a dolan decision. I dont think phil had any intention of giving melo that ridiculous deal back then. Phil has made his mistakes no doubt about it but i blame dolan on that one just like the original trade.

WaltLongmire wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:What positives came out of maxing out melo? How did the team improve? I think that was one of many Phil mistakes. And in general that's where u see his rookie skills. But just like players, Phil has some upside. Too bad he's using Dolan as his punching bag. Soon he will take his talents to a warmer climate. I don't blame him. I've been living in Dallas for 3 weeks now, and i dont miss the cold and snow storms.

im still convinced that was a dolan decision. I dont think phil had any intention of giving melo that ridiculous deal back then. Phil has made his mistakes no doubt about it but i blame dolan on that one just like the original trade.

I agree. I think Dolan said you have your say on all things basketball except you need to sign Melo.

im pretty positive that was the case which is why dolan threw in the no trade and trade kicker. Like i said im not defending phil because he has made some ghastly errors but not on that one

Wonder how Jackson would have done things re Melo if the Knicks had not given up all those #1s... Think about it...Phil comes into a situation where he's without a #1 pick in 2 of his first 3 years, and we don't have our own #2s either (I think)and Melo is really the only tradeable asset on the team.

Quite a hole to be in from the start, and a hole that made it almost impossible to build through the draft. I am not necessarily a Phil fan in terms of what he has done, but the lack draft picks really limited his options, IMO.

WaltLongmire wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:What positives came out of maxing out melo? How did the team improve? I think that was one of many Phil mistakes. And in general that's where u see his rookie skills. But just like players, Phil has some upside. Too bad he's using Dolan as his punching bag. Soon he will take his talents to a warmer climate. I don't blame him. I've been living in Dallas for 3 weeks now, and i dont miss the cold and snow storms.

im still convinced that was a dolan decision. I dont think phil had any intention of giving melo that ridiculous deal back then. Phil has made his mistakes no doubt about it but i blame dolan on that one just like the original trade.

I agree. I think Dolan said you have your say on all things basketball except you need to sign Melo.

im pretty positive that was the case which is why dolan threw in the no trade and trade kicker. Like i said im not defending phil because he has made some ghastly errors but not on that one

Wonder how Jackson would have done things re Melo if the Knicks had not given up all those #1s... Think about it...Phil comes into a situation where he's without a #1 pick in 2 of his first 3 years, and we don't have our own #2s either (I think)and Melo is really the only tradeable asset on the team.

Quite a hole to be in from the start, and a hole that made it almost impossible to build through the draft. I am not necessarily a Phil fan in terms of what he has done, but the lack draft picks really limited his options, IMO.

The Knicks only gave up one #1 in the Melo deal. They gave up the right to swap with Denver with a second #1 and then traded that for Bargs. I like Mark's approach in Brooklyn but he didn't take over a team that was a year removed from the Atlantic title.

How we lost the #1s not important...Jackson did not have them in his tool box... and he did not have his own #2s, which would have been more valuable if he had chosen to do a tank.

And that Knicks' team you refer to was fools gold...you know this. You don't bring in a bunch of graybeards and expect to keep things going. Hell, all the older players except for Kidd got hurt and Kidd was a shell of himself by the end of the year.

That was not a team you were going to build on.