This franchise is a disgrace and has been for 15 years. It's the worst run operation in all of sports. The only team with a worse winning percentage over that time has been Minnesota.

Free agents don't need nor want to come to this circus.

NYC Taxes are insane, the media is out of control and the owner is a pariah. So unless this team is able to secure a top three selection in this years draft you might as well write off next season as well.

Year after year it's the same bunch of losers that start games slow and then mention the team isn't giving effort.

The players don't give a ****, so it's very hard as a fan to care.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

misterearl wrote:As a Knicks follower since 1967, I have witnessed the erosion of an entertaining and galvanizing brand into something unrecognizable, something disorganized and without purpose, other than selling merchandise and expensive seats.

There are no proposed trades that will transform this franchise into a consistent winner because the organization itself is dysfunctional and driven by one mans ego. Veteran players are signed for the money and younger players are malnourished and poisoned by a lack of trust and a support system based on suspicion and turnover.

Certainly, proposing trades and transactions is a convenient means to ignore the reality of institutionalized losing. Unfortunately, we have no say in the matter. Zero. Dolan sets the agenda, signs the checks and pulls the strings. Phil Jackson is a disinterested figurehead who would have been foolish to turn down the tens of millions for lending his name. His heart is elsewhere. There is no direction.

There will be no playoff run this year or next. The league has much more passionate and intelligent men running NBA franchises and innovation has passed New York by and lapped it twice. New Yorker Donnie Walsh, with his imperfections, was as good as it gets. He only lasted five minutes.

Melo will play his version of playground basketball forever. He will not change and that is a shame. His shadow, for all its statistical highlights, causes others to step back and watch, and not play defense, the hallmark of the franchise at its best.

The owner is not enlightened. Nor is he going to change. The owner is less intelligent than most of the posters at UK who declare loyalty and plea for sanity and direction. Dolan is far behind the curve of executive leadership. His media police, message monitoring and arena gestapo are not a good look. I miss Charles Oakley, Marcus Camby, Cazzie Russell, Butch Komives, Dave Stallworth and Butch Beard.

What reason is there to watch redundant, corporate, robotic, losing basketball?

Please, give me one reason to watch.

Just because you can sing doesn't mean you can dance, Answerman...Phil can't dance...Dolan gave you what you wanted, he gave you "Uncle Phil" and you rejoiced...Now you are trying to hang this on Dolan...A lot of blame goes in his direction, sure, but the current dysfunction is about Phil, firstly...Phil can't relate to today's players and can't recruit...Can't build either..He doesn't want to talk to the media..He is a recluse(Not in the job description)...Old dude who just want to do things his way, and hey, he probably earned it too...Just not here, maybe in LA or Chicago..It's not a good scene...It toxic...I'm sure he wants to collect on his two remaining years...Can't blame him, Dolan likes bling and was easy to con..Phil is bling, he and his friends(Fisher, Rambis, Horny, etc) rolled Dolan for some real cash...Phil's problem is that he is always trying to get rid of players and not trying to acquire players...Phil ends up on the losing end of all trades..Sad to watch..

This organization needs a complete overhaul..We need people in here that can relate to today's players...It's a slow process that Dolan thinks can be fixed with one big fat starphuck...Didn't work again..The organization needs a new front man...The Oak thing, along with Phil's tweets, will have lasting repercussions...People and Players won't forget...We have no choice but to look to the draft...Hopefully we can get something for Melo in the off season...We need to regroup and start again..Phil just probably missed his stop, asleep on the cross town bus, as we speak...

I could care less about Phil relating to today's players. Just keep drafting well and building an actual team. He's off to a good start with KP and Willy. We've even got some decent role players already. Now Phil has to BUILD UP THE CORE with a legit PG, SG and SF for the future. People need to get off this Phil bashing and wake the F up. Phil has a chance to remake this team over the next 2 years with very important Picks and bringing in some players that fit the Team Ball we want to play.

Screw the overhaul of the organization crap. Just get smart in the Draft and Free Agency. Get rid of SELFISH players and fill this roster up with 2 WAY players that know how to play team ball. TEAM BALL!!! That's what Phil is about in case you forgot cuz you're spending so much time feeding into the MEDIA TRIPE.

Phil has been trying to win for three years and he has been losing..This thread is meant for you..Delusional..

So you're just gonna ignore the Picks he kept and added and how overall Phil's been setting up the team for continued flexibility and more young talent. Trying to win at the same time Phil's been working on the future as well. NOT DELUSIONAL!!!

misterearl wrote:Good Luck With That

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:fwk00 - I appreciate your careful analysis. The expertise of posters like you is what makes the pain somewhat bearable. As Knicks supporters, win or lose, there are some things that cloud my hope for the future. My issue is there is no way of telling whether Dolan has "stepped aside" as you describe it. None of us have access to the chain of command and power. We can only guess from afar. The press is excluded from the dialogue. Players are monitored like children. Via his heavy handed dealing with the media, and keeping Phil away from interviews and media accessibility, the Knicks front office operation is less transparent than most. That stinks and leaves us all to guess the corporate mission.

Dolan's thumbprint is all over the operation. That is not a good thing. Lastly, Dolan is no more vested in winning than any other owner. Very soon, uncle Phil's contract will expire and the search will begin again. We push the rock up the hill to have it roll back on our weary shoulders.

I think this team has a better future than that. This summer is pivotal in that they must add to this young core. This draft has so much talent and they MUST hit on these picks!!!

nixluva - you know that "hitting on" picks becomes less likely after the first round.

Our best player, potentially, in a little over one year, has suffered six different injuries. He has injured his left Achilles, left groin, left leg, right shoulder, right ankle, and right foot. "The disturbing thing about Porzingis’ injuries is that they’re not coincidental. Towering big men have a lengthy history with lower-extremity injuries."

Greg Oden’s career ended before it started because of knee injuries. Sam bowie was a never-was.

The fundamental concern that is expressed in this thread is that changing direction does not become easier, it becomes more difficult.

The draft? Better fondle those rosary beads night and day.

You wanna compare KP with other young players that missed significantly more time with SERIOUS injuries??? Come on man. STOP!

As for the draft this is a good draft and you can find talent anywhere if you're scouts do a great job. This team has 3 picks and Cap Space. There's plenty of potential for a rebuild over the next couple of years.

nyk4ever wrote:Fuck you earl and **** this thread. If youre so fed up with the owner and the team then don't watch. No one here cares about your "fan card" and if you don't want to watch than don't. Youre no different then any poster here...were all knick fans, if the owner bothers you so much then turn it off. No one here has any sympathy for you, were all in the same boat.

nyk4 - You know nothing about being provocative or evocative. The headline is a deliberate attention grabber to inspire debate and intelligent feedback. Rather than respond with any valid analysis or counterpoint, you resort to the personal attack because your temperament is that of an infant.

Every person, Knicks fan or not, is entitled to an opinion. If you disagree with that opinion, come with a counterpoint and back it with facts. Otherwise GTFOHWTB. You got nothing because you are too blinded by your bias, bigotry, myopia and frustration to listen to an alternate take.

You should work on reading comprehension and debate skills. It's only basketball. And Knicks basketball is not too good these days.

Q. holfresh - Earl, your forgot the S at the end of GTFOHWTB...Or were your being civil??

A. holfresh - I was trying my best to keep it civilized.

Listen, we both go way back with this thing. If you could look into your crystal basketball and address the things you mentioned related to this organization needs a complete overhaul... where would you start?

holfresh - To your point on the college selections, one of my favorite sources for draft predictions is nbaDraft.net. Of the top twenty projected college players, 19 are freshmen and there is one international prospect. 19 FRESHMEN. What does that mean for the future of the league?
Does it inform us the league is REALLY getting younger, more quickly than any moment in recent history?

1. How does that affect the role of veterans (more than 5 years in the league)?
2. Are vets suddenly less valuable to long term planning and winning?
3. How did the Atlanta Hawks go from a 60 win veteran team to falling off a cliff in two seasons?

Color me dazed confused.

Knixkik wrote:I will have to say, these types of threads are a little disappointing. I have been posting here since this opened in 2001, and we have seen wayyy worst times than now. In the mid-2000s we were relying on Eddy Curry, Channing Frye, and Jamal Crawford to save the franchise, with no draft picks or direction. Isiah running the team was way worse than Phil ever has been. Gallinari was the savior, Marbury/Francis combo, it has been bad so many times. Yet now here we are with KP and Willy, a 1st round pick in a strong draft, and cap space to boot. Things are so much better than they have been most years in the 2000s, yet for some reason we see more and more threads of people trying to convince everyone else how bad it is now. Maybe it's just the crowd, idk, but i'm not a fan.

Yeah, I don't get why people are acting like we're doomed- I could understand if we didn't have our picks like in the IT years

misterearl wrote:What Is A Headline?

nixkik - a thread starter is just that. A thread starter. It is NOT an attempt to sway opinion one way or the other. It is a means to open the discussion with a topic that garners serious thought and conversation.

KP is brittle and injured again.
Willy Hermangomez shows signs of being a durable double double machine.
Derrick Rose, for all his gifts, is a sieve on defense.
Melo, for all his gifts, cannot be the determining factor in how the roster is composed. THAT is essential.
Courtney Lee is a sixth man.

The rest are barely average NBA talent. Chasson Randle is intruiguing, howsineva... By definition, there is not a dominant player among the rest.

There is much work to be done.

Anyone can step on someone's foot. Or get the stomach bug. Doesn't make him injury prone. No injury has been twice repeated over time, meaning nothing chronic or of major long-term concern. This isn't Embiid we are talking about. Maybe more like Anthony Davis, where you figure he may be the type of player to miss 15 games per year for various injuries no matter what. Still, not a huge concern if he learns how to treat his body and the training staff figures it out. I think all the KP injury concerns are a major overreaction, which is typical of Knicks fans, so not surprising at all. He is pacing at the same rate that Dirk did. Not that he will become Dirk, but the talent is there. Maybe he falls a little short and falls into the Pau Gasol range. Who knows. But he's going to be a pretty good player regardless, possible franchise player talent. I think rather than overthink the doom and gloom, just let things play out, it will be much better for you.

1. the injury concerns regarding Portzingis are not an over reaction, they are documented.

2. "He is pacing at the same rate that Dirk did. Not that he will become Dirk, but the talent is there. Maybe he falls a little short and falls into the Pau Gasol range. Who knows. But he's going to be a pretty good player regardless, possible franchise player talent."

When you distill those words, what does that self-contradicting statement mean? You are either a franchise player or you are not. There is no such thing as "franchise player talent."

3. There is no overthink, there is simplicity. In the words of Bill Parcells, "you are what your record says you are."

It ain't that deep.

fwk00 wrote:

misterearl wrote:fwk00 - I appreciate your careful analysis. The expertise of posters like you is what makes the pain somewhat bearable. As Knicks supporters, win or lose, there are some things that cloud my hope for the future. My issue is there is no way of telling whether Dolan has "stepped aside" as you describe it. None of us have access to the chain of command and power. We can only guess from afar. The press is excluded from the dialogue. Players are monitored like children. Via his heavy handed dealing with the media, and keeping Phil away from interviews and media accessibility, the Knicks front office operation is less transparent than most. That stinks and leaves us all to guess the corporate mission.

Dolan's thumbprint is all over the operation. That is not a good thing. Lastly, Dolan is no more vested in winning than any other owner. Very soon, uncle Phil's contract will expire and the search will begin again. We push the rock up the hill to have it roll back on our weary shoulders.

Earl - We go back as far as most on this or any other board. The past twenty years or so have been a painful ride for sure. I often get paid to do research and I'm fairly good at it. Here's what I think has happened and why.

I think Dolan has absolutely stepped aside. And Dolan cares to the degree he can. His scope of responsibilities are far broader than just the Knicks perennial soap-operas. You can tell he cares by his body language. He squirms in his seat when the Knicks are blowing leads and you can feel the empathy of guests around him. This is not an indifferent owner.

IMO, things went wrong when the Knicks were slow to understand the implications of the CBA contracts around the turn of the century. Dolan had spent as much as needed during Checketts and Riley and continued thinking that would work going forward. The Allan Houston contract became an albatross that buried the team for over a decade due to unintended consequences. Those consequences have handcuffed multiple GMs and the duplicity of player agents in the Bargnani trade served to once again sink the franchise just as we were seeing a ray of light. The difficulty of the New York market and expectations worked like a Chinese finger puzzle - the harder the Knicks tried getting out of their woes, the deeper the woes became.

The press is not and has not been friendly or fair to the Knicks in years. With few exceptions they have zero professionalism and they treat the Dolan family, management, and players as bloodsport. They don't care who they hurt and they have zero interest in objective reporting. Dolan and Jax are completely within their rights to avoid them at any cost. And likewise MSG, like any organization with deep pockets, are easy targets for fraudulent claims and litigation. Its just good business to have strict policies. Has nothing to do with bad ownership or bad intent or suspicion that they're doing something wrong. And YES it is sad but it is what it is.

As for the players being monitored like children - many of them ARE mentally and psychologically children who can barely speak in complete thoughts. And for all the monitoring they play with guns, get shot, and go AWOL and so on. They NEED adult supervision in too many cases.

In hiring Jax, one of the most gifted and dedicated employees the organization has ever had, Dolan's intent to build a winner is clear. And the mission has always been clear - compete and incrementally build as best you can. This means leveraging assets, taking risks, navigating losing with a roster half filled with prima donnas. Its fair to lament Jax's miscalculations but it is profoundly unfair to question his intent or intellect. There's a league full of teams who haven't won squat or gotten appreciably better during the same time span our problems have occurred in. Jax is an organizational treasure - professional haters be damned.

But this year has been a special kind of ugly thanks to Melo's indifference and the lack of energy and professionalism we are being subjected to by the veterans - unwatchable and inexcusable.

Can't agree with everything here as I despise Dolan. Nevertheless, what an outstanding post! Thank you for that.

misterearl wrote:If Loving the Knicks Is Wrong The Answer Man Don't Wanna Be Right

Q. holfresh - Earl, your forgot the S at the end of GTFOHWTB...Or were your being civil??

A. holfresh - I was trying my best to keep it civilized.

Listen, we both go way back with this thing. If you could look into your crystal basketball and address the things you mentioned related to this organization needs a complete overhaul... where would you start?

holfresh - To your point on the college selections, one of my favorite sources for draft predictions is nbaDraft.net. Of the top twenty projected college players, 19 are freshmen and there is one international prospect. 19 FRESHMEN. What does that mean for the future of the league?
Does it inform us the league is REALLY getting younger, more quickly than any moment in recent history?

1. How does that affect the role of veterans (more than 5 years in the league)?
2. Are vets suddenly less valuable to long term planning and winning?
3. How did the Atlanta Hawks go from a 60 win veteran team to falling off a cliff in two seasons?

Color me dazed confused.

MSG is a publicly traded company and it's biggest component are the Knicks, so I don't believe a true rebuild is possible...Dolan has to answer to vested shareholders..I think we will always be caught in this trying to "stay relevant" mode we have been seeing over the years...Dolan spent a billion to refurb the Garden at low interest rates...He has to pay that money back and needs to sell out the Garden..Phil has been a big disappointment just from the standpoint I thought he would bring some semblance of leadership and stability in and around Dolan..Begin to create a foundational buffer between Dolan and the team that can last going forward...But his ego sucks the positive energy any of his coaches or players can possibly offer to the team...It infects the organization as well..It's the triangle or the highway, baby..

But that being said, we need adults and leadership in the organization...I think Dolan needs help and Mills is a smart "book" guy, but isn't a guy with sound basketball advice...Let's hire some basketball people with New York roots to be part of the organization...Let's bring in Mark Jackson and his ilk and get a round table, try to figure a way out of this mess...Eventually, I would love to see Mark Jackson coach...I thought he had a big influence on average physically gifted players, who turned into very good players after hard work..I am amazed that most of the NBA have overlooked this...Lets get some input from H2O too, let's see what he is thinking...Bring back Ewing who just loves the game...Make these guys part of the infrastructure of the Garden and figure out who we can get to run the joint...Let's try to create a place that teams, coaches and players respect and want to be a part of...That is as important, if not more important, than any draft pick you can bring in...

If we don't have the right people in management, eventually the dysfunction will trickle down to the court the way we have been seeing...