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Question to all N.Y. fans.....
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diderotn
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8/13/2004  12:54 PM
Instead of posting stupid trade, I want to post a thread that will work you all minds a little. Who do you think should be our captain and co-captain next season? and who do you think should be our first option next to Marburry?

Personally, I do believe that TT should be that man. He is healthy and most of all has a complete game. He can penetrate, post-up, and shoot. Why not allow him to have the rock on his hands instead of an unsure or most of all an unhealthy Houston? If Houston is healthy, he should still be the second option next to TT, because he is simply a shooter and would hampered the athleticism of our players.

Holla at me, and please make your argument very constructive.
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timmyTtop
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8/13/2004  1:18 PM
i agree, i think TT is underrated, i saw his game against sac in sac, after being a knick for a few days and he almost man handled the kings in their arena up until TT stopped shooting in the 4th for whatever reason. he was also up against a tall peja. most of the defenders on TT are a few inches shorter and hence TT can have his way with them whether it be posting up or penetrating. this is the order i think it should go by:

1. marbury (20 pts)
2. TT (18 pts)
3. houston (15 pts)/crawford (15 pts)

68 pts right there.
KNICKSdom
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8/13/2004  1:23 PM
I think Houston and Marbury should be co-captains of the team. Houston being experienced and knows all too well about what it takes to make it to the playoffs. I expect him to be even more vocal with the team. Marbury on the other hand should step up and be more of a leader on the court as the pg. I want to see Marbury play with fire and gets the unit together in huddles and just make plays. I know he can score and create his own shot. Things like that make good teamwork and togetherness. Tim Thomas should be used as the 1st or 2nd option on the offence. Really I expect better ball movement around to the open man, anyone can score when they are in position to do so. The emphasis should be on teamwork on offense and defense, this Knicks team is deep enough to go far in the playoffs barring no injuries.
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diderotn
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8/13/2004  1:26 PM
I would go as far as given TT 20 shots per game. Reason for that is because he will always have the advantage on whomever is defending him. That kid is an excellent freethrow shooter, and Lenny has to take advantage of that. Last year we were amongst the worst freethrow team, because we weren't getting to the line. The fact that we didn't have a big man with a postup game reduced our chances at getting to the line. We have to take advantage of our strenths, and that is utilizing TT to the fullest of his ability. He has an excellent inside and out game that we must take advantage of.

Posted by timmyTtop:

i agree, i think TT is underrated, i saw his game against sac in sac, after being a knick for a few days and he almost man handled the kings in their arena up until TT stopped shooting in the 4th for whatever reason. he was also up against a tall peja. most of the defenders on TT are a few inches shorter and hence TT can have his way with them whether it be posting up or penetrating. this is the order i think it should go by:

1. marbury (20 pts)
2. TT (18 pts)
3. houston (15 pts)/crawford (15 pts)

68 pts right there.
The true Knickabocker..........
timmyTtop
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8/13/2004  1:29 PM
our offense is definately not the problem. its D and chemistry. with those two we can make it to the ECF.
MaTT4281
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8/13/2004  1:35 PM
Marbs + Houston as Co Captains.

If Houston is healthy, I still think he should be our first option. TT is fine if he is a 2nd or 3rd option. I'd like Craw 2nd or 3rd, depending on TT. Then Marbs as our 4th. I'd like to see him continue with the passing mentality, but I'm thankful that he can take over the scoring duty when we need it.
diderotn
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8/13/2004  1:41 PM
I disagree. I think that either Marburry and TT or Houston and TT should be co-captain. Reason for that is because Marburry and Houston are two very passive type of guys. For that leadership to be effective, you have to have two very opposite types of demeanors at that position. One crazy/talkative a la TT, and one very passive a la Houston or Marburry. As for options, TT should most definitely be the number one option. His penetration will make everyone elses game better, specially our shooters (Marburry, Houston, etc)
Options:
TT# 1
Houston or Crawf #2
Marburry #3
Vinny or Damp 4
Sweeteny 5

Posted by MaTT4281:

Marbs + Houston as Co Captains.

If Houston is healthy, I still think he should be our first option. TT is fine if he is a 2nd or 3rd option. I'd like Craw 2nd or 3rd, depending on TT. Then Marbs as our 4th. I'd like to see him continue with the passing mentality, but I'm thankful that he can take over the scoring duty when we need it.
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fishmike
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8/13/2004  1:47 PM
seriously who cares? Its just a label. Was Jordan the Bull's captain? What we need is guys to step up when there are 5 minutes on the clock and make a hustle play, hit the boards harder, hit the shot that puts the game away, be the guy that gets the big stop... Talent and good coaching produce a winner. Winning produces chemistry. Chemestry produces leaders.

Right now we are just trying to improve the talent, get younger, and field a team worth watching.

I dont care about #s. I care about wins. I dont care if TT gets 10 points and 5 rebs if he's the guy thats putting games away late. We arent big and strong, but we arent the pushover that Harrington, KT, Spoon and Doleac frontcourt of old was. We can bang, we can board. We dont need KT to play 40 minutes at center a night.

Lets see Lenny push these guys to play together and be unselfish. Right now he's the most important captain we have. NONE of these guys have ever played together for any stretch of time.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
edsonline
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8/13/2004  1:53 PM
Teams can have a captain, co-captains, or tri-captains. I would go the tri-captain route - Marbury, Houston, and T. Thomas. marbury is the franchise. Houston current captain and been to ECF 2 times and NBA finals 1 time. T. Thomas grew up a Knick fan, OBVIOUSLY has no problem speaking his mind and calling out teamates, and will be one of the top offensive weapons on the team. Hardway is another candidate for tri-captain instead of TT. Big Penny is a veteran, former all-star, and been to ECF 2 times and NBA finals 1 time. But I would go with TT. Penny's a good option too though, and even if he isn't a tri-captain will be a valuable leader.
diderotn
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8/13/2004  1:55 PM
I agree with your analogy. However when you have a squad full of passive players like ours, and a passive coach like Lenny, the aggressive GM has to find ways to utilize his assets to the fullest. Yes Jordan wasn't the Captain, but everyone on the court knew who was the man. Besides, Pinpen and most of all, Phill were in complete control. Lenny is passive, and our so called stars are also passive, something has to give.
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timmyTtop
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8/13/2004  2:10 PM
TT is passive? get out.
diderotn
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8/13/2004  2:15 PM
TT is not passive at all. He is a little soft, he can't play with pain, but the boy is not passive at all. Look out for him next season. If Lenny is smart, he will utilize TT as #1 option, next Houston, Marburry, Vinny, Sweeteny

Posted by timmyTtop:

TT is passive? get out.
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timmyTtop
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8/13/2004  2:17 PM
Posted by diderotn:

TT is not passive at all. He is a little soft, he can't play with pain, but the boy is not passive at all. Look out for him next season. If Lenny is smart, he will utilize TT as #1 option, next Houston, Marburry, Vinny, Sweeteny

Posted by timmyTtop:

TT is passive? get out.

your putting vinny before sweet, and sweet before craw?
s3231
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8/13/2004  2:21 PM
I'm getting sick of hearing people call our players "soft" or "passive." Everyone references the playoffs where Tim got hurt and no one stepped up, but they fail to realize that our players had not even played together for a full season. Fishmike said it perfectly, winning will produce chemistry, and chemistry will produce leaders. There is no need to think about who will be our captains next year or who will get the most shots. I don't care if Marbury only averages around 12 ppg as long as we are winning, that is all that counts. I think the players would agree with that.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
diderotn
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8/13/2004  2:34 PM
Again, I do agree with you about the winning attitude. However, to win, there can't be no confusion on the court. To eliminate confusion, the floor leadership roles has to knowned and respected by the players. That is why it is importan IMO to clearly specify who the captain and cocaptain should be, and that has to be established during training camp

Posted by s3231:

I'm getting sick of hearing people call our players "soft" or "passive." Everyone references the playoffs where Tim got hurt and no one stepped up, but they fail to realize that our players had not even played together for a full season. Fishmike said it perfectly, winning will produce chemistry, and chemistry will produce leaders. There is no need to think about who will be our captains next year or who will get the most shots. I don't care if Marbury only averages around 12 ppg as long as we are winning, that is all that counts. I think the players would agree with that.
The true Knickabocker..........
s3231
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8/13/2004  2:49 PM
"Again, I do agree with you about the winning attitude. However, to win, there can't be no confusion on the court. To eliminate confusion, the floor leadership roles has to knowned and respected by the players. That is why it is importan IMO to clearly specify who the captain and cocaptain should be, and that has to be established during training camp"





No titles really have to be given. When the game is on the line and there is only time for one more shot I'm positive that the players would know to try to get the ball to Allan or Stephon. Leaders will emerge, I don't think that is something you should just force onto the players. As for the captain and cocaptain titles, they will most likely be given out but that doesn't mean leadership only has to come through them. Players like Penny and JYD will most likely be vocal even though they will probably not be our captains. Anyway, don't worry about leadership, we will have plenty of it.

[Edited by - s3231 on 08/13/2004 14:50:45]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
fishmike
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8/13/2004  3:18 PM
look at last year... everyone of those guys were just thrown into a crazy situation late in the season and asked to play at a high level. Its amazing we played as well as we did at times.

Now guys get a training camp, a month of preseason and they bond, get a plan, all get on the same page... this stuff matters. You get some feel for what your teams going to be like, what your goals are. They didnt have that last year. They were all thrown together and with a new coach and told to just go out and play.

Right now Houston is rehabbing and talking about taking Crawford under his wing.

Marbury is playing w/ all stars for a HOF coach and he's not allowed to shoot, so he's forced to learn to help his team by being a leader and distributing the ball.

TT is boxing and strengthening his upper body because Lenny specifically told him to focus on his post game and inside play for next year because thats what we need from him (Tim's quotes, not mine).

Sweetney is and has been working w/ a personal trainer to slim down and get stronger (anyone see him in the SLs? He was an easy 10 lbs lighter and looked more defined). He's 21 and was SO clearly superior to everyone there.

Crawford and JYD are coming from losing situations with something to prove.

Vin Baker had heart surgury and is looking to prove he's a new player. The only reason we wouldnt sign Vin is because we used the whole MLE on Dampier. Either way we win.

KT got a brain transplant. Ok.. wishfull thinking but his hand at least if fixed.

Does anyone see this stuff? Where as last year was a recipe for disaster this is a recipe for a success and a good team.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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8/13/2004  3:39 PM
but fish, you dumb bastard, isiah has put us in salary cap hell for the next 10 years. we have no draft picks and absolutely no way to improve this team. i look at us having an upside of 42 wins and a downside of 38. but regardless, we're stuck in mediocre hell. 1 round, maybe 2 and we're out. we probably should've just torn the whole thing down after ewing and rebuilt with cap space and draft picks, like chicago and atlanta.

whoa...total out of body experience there...note to self, NEVER drink grape kool-aid.

win win win - that solves all questions and doubts. i do believe though that if we can get out of the gate quick, we can win 50 games like detroit did 2 years ago. i'm pretty excited about this squad, especially the fact that we're more of a complete squad now than we've been in years.
fishmike
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8/13/2004  3:45 PM
yea.. look, we have some holes, but like we said we have some geniune versatility here. 2 years ago we had 3 bad PGs and a bunch of shooting guards and undersized PFs. Then we added KVH. Wow. Were were still the most unathletic and small teams in the league.

Now we have some dynamic athletes. We have some exciting wing players. We have some size and muscle. We have some good young players THAT ARE PART OF THE ROTATION. We have a ways to go but at least we are talented again, and worth watching.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
diderotn
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8/13/2004  3:45 PM
This is just my prediction for next season:

Marburry will average 12 apg/19 ppg/4rpg
Houston will be out of our lineup after the 25 game of the season
TT will be an all-star 20/8/5
Vinny and Sweetney will anchor the front line with Dampier as the General
we will win the east and get eliminated @ the big dance.
The true Knickabocker..........
Question to all N.Y. fans.....

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