nixluva wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:KP will never be a + defender , nice player but he will never be a superstar. His ceiling is a Brook Lopez level talent

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

The Knicks are usually a good rebounding team. Not the case with KP at center. I really think he fits with Jennings and the second unit. He still gets his minutes but I don't think he fits at the five as a starter at this point. The last two games the Knicks have been beaten by centers.

The Knicks eventually start KP and Willy together. Rebounding dull never be a concern. KP should always remain a starter. Knicks need to build for the future. Benching him accomplishes nothing.

He doesn't work as the starting 5 at this point in his career. That isn't saying the future isn't bright or that he is a bad player. But you if you don't rebound like a center, set screens like a center or have the bulk to defend centers you shouldn't start at center. What are you going to learn other than you don't have the bulk to play the position. Eventually that works but with this team Melo needs to play the 4. He also fits with the starters.

How do you know this? I mean he's not even as developed physically as some college players. I think he's just one of those guys that develops slowly. Not everyone matures at the same rate. KP should be fine once he can hold off guys better. I think he's going to eventually be a better defender as he gets stronger.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:KP will never be a + defender , nice player but he will never be a superstar. His ceiling is a Brook Lopez level talent

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

The Knicks are usually a good rebounding team. Not the case with KP at center. I really think he fits with Jennings and the second unit. He still gets his minutes but I don't think he fits at the five as a starter at this point. The last two games the Knicks have been beaten by centers.

The Knicks eventually start KP and Willy together. Rebounding dull never be a concern. KP should always remain a starter. Knicks need to build for the future. Benching him accomplishes nothing.

He doesn't work as the starting 5 at this point in his career. That isn't saying the future isn't bright or that he is a bad player. But you if you don't rebound like a center, set screens like a center or have the bulk to defend centers you shouldn't start at center. What are you going to learn other than you don't have the bulk to play the position. Eventually that works but with this team Melo needs to play the 4. He also fits with the starters.

How do you know this? I mean he's not even as developed physically as some college players. I think he's just one of those guys that develops slowly. Not everyone matures at the same rate. KP should be fine once he can hold off guys better. I think he's going to eventually be a better defender as he gets stronger.

You don't know either way. But you do know that he shouldn't start at the 5 at this point. You also know Melo needs to start at the 4. Is KP better off playing with Rose or Jennings? The Knicks don't have Rolo anymore. That changed the line up dramatically. Melo/KP/center isn't working. What is the best solution if a trade doesn't happen?

A lot of the problem for KP is not just the lack of strength but also the knowledge of how to deal with guys that are stronger and weigh more. How to keep guys off your body. KP has so much to learn about how to use his physical talent and to become more dominant mentally. You look at how Dirk developed and he started off real shaky. Guys sometimes have to grow into a confidence level where they understand that they can be dominant. I can see KP eventually getting there. It's like when you finally are able to beat your Dad consistently. KP will eventually realize that he can't be stopped and he will be much more decisive and strong with his moves.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:KP will never be a + defender , nice player but he will never be a superstar. His ceiling is a Brook Lopez level talent

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

The Knicks are usually a good rebounding team. Not the case with KP at center. I really think he fits with Jennings and the second unit. He still gets his minutes but I don't think he fits at the five as a starter at this point. The last two games the Knicks have been beaten by centers.

The Knicks eventually start KP and Willy together. Rebounding dull never be a concern. KP should always remain a starter. Knicks need to build for the future. Benching him accomplishes nothing.

He doesn't work as the starting 5 at this point in his career. That isn't saying the future isn't bright or that he is a bad player. But you if you don't rebound like a center, set screens like a center or have the bulk to defend centers you shouldn't start at center. What are you going to learn other than you don't have the bulk to play the position. Eventually that works but with this team Melo needs to play the 4. He also fits with the starters.

How do you know this? I mean he's not even as developed physically as some college players. I think he's just one of those guys that develops slowly. Not everyone matures at the same rate. KP should be fine once he can hold off guys better. I think he's going to eventually be a better defender as he gets stronger.

You don't know either way. But you do know that he shouldn't start at the 5 at this point. You also know Melo needs to start at the 4. Is KP better off playing with Rose or Jennings? The Knicks don't have Rolo anymore. That changed the line up dramatically. Melo/KP/center isn't working. What is the best solution if a trade doesn't happen?

Are we talking about RIGHT NOW or for the future? KP could come back stronger next season and be just fine. Like I said, KP doesn't have to be a big bruiser to play Center. Just a bit stronger like KG or Dirk. I think Willy will likely be the actual Center anyway. You can have KP and Willy play interchangeably on D! I really am no longer worried about how Melo fits into this. For the sake of the team you have to start thinking in terms of what's best for KP, Willy etc.

A lot of the problem for KP is not just the lack of strength but also the knowledge of how to deal with guys that are stronger and weigh more. How to keep guys off your body. KP has so much to learn about how to use his physical talent and to become more dominant mentally. You look at how Dirk developed and he started off real shaky. Guys sometimes have to grow into a confidence level where they understand that they can be dominant. I can see KP eventually getting there. It's like when you finally are able to beat your Dad consistently. KP will eventually realize that he can't be stopped and he will be much more decisive and strong with his moves.

See bolded. Jordan and Jokic dominated the Knicks. KP is young and needs to bulk up but I still. No reason to put him in a position where he can't be successful because he hasn't filled out yet.

KP is not going to be at Center 100% so I really don't see this as a major issue. We will have other guys. Still let KP be a starter as he has been but with him being more of a focal point. He's got to learn how to do that. We're not playing for anything but a draft spot and player development so what's the problem?

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:KP will never be a + defender , nice player but he will never be a superstar. His ceiling is a Brook Lopez level talent

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

The Knicks are usually a good rebounding team. Not the case with KP at center. I really think he fits with Jennings and the second unit. He still gets his minutes but I don't think he fits at the five as a starter at this point. The last two games the Knicks have been beaten by centers.

The Knicks eventually start KP and Willy together. Rebounding dull never be a concern. KP should always remain a starter. Knicks need to build for the future. Benching him accomplishes nothing.

He doesn't work as the starting 5 at this point in his career. That isn't saying the future isn't bright or that he is a bad player. But you if you don't rebound like a center, set screens like a center or have the bulk to defend centers you shouldn't start at center. What are you going to learn other than you don't have the bulk to play the position. Eventually that works but with this team Melo needs to play the 4. He also fits with the starters.

How do you know this? I mean he's not even as developed physically as some college players. I think he's just one of those guys that develops slowly. Not everyone matures at the same rate. KP should be fine once he can hold off guys better. I think he's going to eventually be a better defender as he gets stronger.

You don't know either way. But you do know that he shouldn't start at the 5 at this point. You also know Melo needs to start at the 4. Is KP better off playing with Rose or Jennings? The Knicks don't have Rolo anymore. That changed the line up dramatically. Melo/KP/center isn't working. What is the best solution if a trade doesn't happen?

Are we talking about RIGHT NOW or for the future? KP could come back stronger next season and be just fine. Like I said, KP doesn't have to be a big bruiser to play Center. Just a bit stronger like KG or Dirk. I think Willy will likely be the actual Center anyway. You can have KP and Willy play interchangeably on D! I really am no longer worried about how Melo fits into this. For the sake of the team you have to start thinking in terms of what's best for KP, Willy etc.

A lot of the problem for KP is not just the lack of strength but also the knowledge of how to deal with guys that are stronger and weigh more. How to keep guys off your body. KP has so much to learn about how to use his physical talent and to become more dominant mentally. You look at how Dirk developed and he started off real shaky. Guys sometimes have to grow into a confidence level where they understand that they can be dominant. I can see KP eventually getting there. It's like when you finally are able to beat your Dad consistently. KP will eventually realize that he can't be stopped and he will be much more decisive and strong with his moves.

See bolded. Jordan and Jokic dominated the Knicks. KP is young and needs to bulk up but I still. No reason to put him in a position where he can't be successful because he hasn't filled out yet.

DOMINATED THE "KNICKS"! KP wasn't guarding those guys the entire time. It's not like it was a direct matchup all night. In the end KP has had his nights where he went off on teams. Jokic is really rolling right now and he's not dealing with being too light like KP. Good for him. KP still needs to gain experience and learn how to deal with bigger guys cuz there will always be bigger guys. Just ask KG about that. It's entirely possible to be successful and still be a slim guy. Camby was another guy like that.

KP is not going to be at Center 100% so I really don't see this as a major issue. We will have other guys. Still let KP be a starter as he has been but with him being more of a focal point. He's got to learn how to do that. We're not playing for anything but a draft spot and player development so what's the problem?

I just don't see how it develops KP playing the 5 when he is a 4. His body appears a lot more like a guy that needs to play the 4 after he fills out. He struggles against starting 5's on offense and defense. He and Melo both need to play the 4. Not sure how it helps him to play out of position with a bad point guard. What is he learning? Get mine? I get Phil wanting to trade Melo. I don't get the insults and depreciation approach to moving him. But until he is moved I think KP fits better with Jennings and the second unit playing the 4. I think KP gets 30+ minutes a game no matter what. But putting him in scenarios where he is over powered and failing isn't developing him in my opinion.

KP isn't really failing. He's not excelling as much as we'd like but not failing. KP needs to develop. Melo isn't at issue anymore. Not in terms of what this team needs to be focusing on. KP is not yet a full time Center but he is most definitely a rim protector and we need to scheme a defense where he can do that and have him stay in the paint area. He'll eventually adjust to defending other big Centers and PF's. You may not see it right now but I think the more he does it the more he will focus in on it and adjust how he's defending.

JesseDark wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Jokic is a really good legit 5
KP is a 7-3 SG.

His way position will be defined based on his teammates
As tonight has shown he can play 5 or 4
But until we get some defenders
It won't matter

He has a tough time playing the 5. He struggles to defend normal sized centers and he can't set screens. The Knicks really need to consider having KP or Melo come off the bench. I think KP fits the second unit. I know that isn't politically correct but I think it is the best thing.

I always get yelled at for being too old school, but KP did not work on the his post game that much in the off season- at least that is how I look at it. I will say if for the umpteenth time...guys are living in the twilight zone if they think a guy his size doing crossovers makes a lot of sense, but this is what we all love around here.

He should have an assortment of hook shots and McHale type pivot moves. Let him take a spot-up 3, but the Melo type dribbling we see from his is a complete waste of time.

He also failed to work on his upper-body, and I think he even said as much, saying that he worked on his lower body...something I have not really noticed, by the way.

His success as a player will depend on his 17ft and under game...hopefully he understands this at some point.

Gotta agree with you Walt, KP has a lot of work to do and the crossovers from the top of the key are useless. If they trade Melo they better get a superstar back this kid is not ready to carry a team.

Willy/O'Quinn/Noah splitting time at 5.
KP/Kuz at 4
Starting 3 and Holiday backing him up
Starting 2 and Lee backing him up
Starting 1 and Jennings backing him up (Maybe a flip scenario with Rose starting, young project point backing him up)

We are 3 players away from a good complete rebuild.

Step 1- Draft someone at 3/2/1 in the lottery. If we get a 1 that would be ideal, but it may be tough to get a good 1 outside of top 6, in which case you go with best player available and that may be a 3. Small possibility. Trade. I am open to trading the pick IF it gives us a proven high quality starter in his early 20's (24 or younger) on a good contract. Likely not going to happen so we need to draft well.

Step 2- Trade Melo over the summer for a starter at 3/2/1 and a future first round pick.

Step 3- Use the capspace to see if you can find another starter for the perimeter, but may be tough. Most likely you get talent like a Lee, Noah, Afflalo, RoLO. Borderline starter/good bench player. So we should still use the money to add more depth to the team. Hopedully the moves are defensive minded. Re-sign Jennings and Holiday. Good bench players. We need some continuity.

Step 4 is based is on Step 2 happening. If Melo is traded and we get a future pick, use the future pick, O'Quinn (since he is a last year contract) in a deal to get some more perimeter help. I want up to 4 quality perimeter players added, all of whom should be athletic and able to have enoough gas in the tank that they can play in Horny's offense and also have energy for D. The current starters do not have the gas in the tank,

Step 5 Coaching. Bring in a defensive specialist assistant for the team. Plan a scheme where you don't rely so much on switching. Use training camp 2017 to work on this. Considering many players will be coming back in this plan (KP, Willy, Holiday, Lee, Jennings, Kuz, Noah, O'Quinn maybe) you don't need to focus on offense as much. There should also be some cohesion and continuity on offense.

I think we can be a 35 win team next year again, draft another lottery pick, and come 2018 be in a really, really, really good spot for the future if we make wise draft choices and wise moves in who we bring in to be starters for the team.

No more aiming for the playoffs and then being upset when vets don't get you there. Invest in young players, use vets as mentors and off the bench in spurts. Wherever we end up, we end up.