CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

The Knicks are usually a good rebounding team. Not the case with KP at center. I really think he fits with Jennings and the second unit. He still gets his minutes but I don't think he fits at the five as a starter at this point. The last two games the Knicks have been beaten by centers.

The Knicks eventually start KP and Willy together. Rebounding will never be a concern. KP should always remain a starter. Knicks need to build for the future. Benching him accomplishes nothing.

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

Jokic and Jordan won the last two games for their teams against KP.

Oh please cut that anti KP agenda crap out.
Jordan got one key rebound in a game we were already losing by 2 points.
Jokic was not defended by KP all the game. If I counted correctly, KP gave up 6 of his baskets. The rest were on Willy and O'Quinn or others.

So please, I get some people are butt hurt that Phil likes KP enough and believes in KP enough that he wants to build around him and trade Melo, but lets no overreact. KP gave the team 17 points on 7-14 shooting tonight. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose was a -15. Who is paid 50 million on NY to lead the team? Is it KP? Dude's a 2nd year player who is working on his game and weaknesses.

I've never even said KP is a top 10 player, or a franchise player, or anything like that. However if a team rebuilds, and you use him more. that's how you'll see him a) develop and b) know more about who he really is. You won't know squat so long as he ends up games with 14 shots a night. He was on tonight, but didn't get the ball all that much. Which is fine, because the ball is moving on and offense is doing great.

Defensively to blame the entire issues on KP is ridiculous. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose -15. Really want to say KP was the reason we lost those games?

I know some fans like Nix get too high on players or too positive and overrate. But that doesn't mean you have to hate on the same player to bring balance. Balance is seeing that KP is a good player who is in a pretty bad situation with this team. The team around him sucks defensively. He won't look good when everyone around him is losing his man. Himself when he makes mistakes, they look compounded. In 2-3 years we'll have a really good sense of what type of player he is. I think for a 2nd year player, giving the team 18 points, 7 boards, 2 block a night, on pace to break the league record for 3's and blocks in a season, I mean I'll take that any time of the week.

nyknickzingus you are accusing someone else of having a KP agenda? C'mon!
I'll try to find the article on the clippers where they selected the 5 most important things that led to a win for the clippers. KP's guy had 40. KP had 4 rebounds and he is 7'3. Are you watching the post game?

I understand the critique of KP but really none of this means a damned thing in the overall scheme of things. We all know KP has the talent. He has to keep working and growing. It's not about where he is now but rather what he eventually becomes. Jokic and his team have a losing record too. There's no real prize to be won at this stage. Let's see how KP continues to develop and give him more of a role and see how he develops.

KP actually had one game not that long ago where he started off with a bunch of post touches and he was successful. They were playing thru him and he had 15 pts but then they went away from him and that's the story of his time in NY so far.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

Jokic and Jordan won the last two games for their teams against KP.

Oh please cut that anti KP agenda crap out.
Jordan got one key rebound in a game we were already losing by 2 points.
Jokic was not defended by KP all the game. If I counted correctly, KP gave up 6 of his baskets. The rest were on Willy and O'Quinn or others.

So please, I get some people are butt hurt that Phil likes KP enough and believes in KP enough that he wants to build around him and trade Melo, but lets no overreact. KP gave the team 17 points on 7-14 shooting tonight. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose was a -15. Who is paid 50 million on NY to lead the team? Is it KP? Dude's a 2nd year player who is working on his game and weaknesses.

I've never even said KP is a top 10 player, or a franchise player, or anything like that. However if a team rebuilds, and you use him more. that's how you'll see him a) develop and b) know more about who he really is. You won't know squat so long as he ends up games with 14 shots a night. He was on tonight, but didn't get the ball all that much. Which is fine, because the ball is moving on and offense is doing great.

Defensively to blame the entire issues on KP is ridiculous. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose -15. Really want to say KP was the reason we lost those games?

I know some fans like Nix get too high on players or too positive and overrate. But that doesn't mean you have to hate on the same player to bring balance. Balance is seeing that KP is a good player who is in a pretty bad situation with this team. The team around him sucks defensively. He won't look good when everyone around him is losing his man. Himself when he makes mistakes, they look compounded. In 2-3 years we'll have a really good sense of what type of player he is. I think for a 2nd year player, giving the team 18 points, 7 boards, 2 block a night, on pace to break the league record for 3's and blocks in a season, I mean I'll take that any time of the week.

nyknickzingus you are accusing someone else of having a KP agenda? C'mon!
I'll try to find the article on the clippers where they selected the 5 most important things that led to a win for the clippers. KP's guy had 40. KP had 4 rebounds and he is 7'3. Are you watching the post game?

I understand the critique of KP but really none of this means a damned thing in the overall scheme of things. We all know KP has the talent. He has to keep working and growing. It's not about where he is now but rather what he eventually becomes. Jokic and his team have a losing record too. There's no real prize to be won at this stage. Let's see how KP continues to develop and give him more of a role and see how he develops.

KP actually had one game not that long ago where he started off with a bunch of post touches and he was successful. They were playing thru him and he had 15 pts but then they went away from him and that's the story of his time in NY so far.

He definitely has the potential. He is awesome but he isn't a center and Melo isn't a small forward. I don't know if KP should ever play center. Phil compared him to Bradley. He is so much better than Bradley but he also is really young and needs to fill out a lot if he is going to play the 5. Does KP fit better with Melo/Rose or Jennings/O'Quinn/Willy?

I'm not even concerned with who KP fits with on this current roster aside from Willy!!! We have to start focusing on what is best for KP! Whatever his game develops into we need to build around that.

KP is never going to be the biggest or strongest guy!!! He doesn't have to be. Dirk and KG were sufficiently strong but not bruisers!!! That's where is see KP heading.

While KP didn't do it tonight, he has led the team to wins. Jokic did it tonight, great job for him. KP had games like that against the Lakers and Suns, and a few other teams earlier in the season.

In terms of the Jokic vs KP debate, I don't really care about Jokic. It's like the Towns vs KP debate. Is someone offering me the other player in trade? No. So why do I care who is better? I care that I have a good young player who has great potential and I want the team to do it's best to make sure they get it out of him. The end.

KP has not been the same movement wise since the achilles injury. He was a better player in Nov/Dec. However he's out there. He's playing. He's producing and doing well. You look at our 2nd best young player, it's Willy. Willy's a year older and you see how many up and down games he has. KP's giving us 18/8/2. Clearly he has to keep working. But we also don't run the offense through him like Jokic gets in Denver. We're not using KP that way because we have a better scorer in Melo, and guards that can get penetration easier. However if the team didn't have Melo and Rose, KP would be the defacto number one option and get more plays. Would he struggle? Sure. He's also have big nights as well and carry his team. He's got that talent for sure.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

Jokic and Jordan won the last two games for their teams against KP.

Oh please cut that anti KP agenda crap out.
Jordan got one key rebound in a game we were already losing by 2 points.
Jokic was not defended by KP all the game. If I counted correctly, KP gave up 6 of his baskets. The rest were on Willy and O'Quinn or others.

So please, I get some people are butt hurt that Phil likes KP enough and believes in KP enough that he wants to build around him and trade Melo, but lets no overreact. KP gave the team 17 points on 7-14 shooting tonight. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose was a -15. Who is paid 50 million on NY to lead the team? Is it KP? Dude's a 2nd year player who is working on his game and weaknesses.

I've never even said KP is a top 10 player, or a franchise player, or anything like that. However if a team rebuilds, and you use him more. that's how you'll see him a) develop and b) know more about who he really is. You won't know squat so long as he ends up games with 14 shots a night. He was on tonight, but didn't get the ball all that much. Which is fine, because the ball is moving on and offense is doing great.

Defensively to blame the entire issues on KP is ridiculous. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose -15. Really want to say KP was the reason we lost those games?

I know some fans like Nix get too high on players or too positive and overrate. But that doesn't mean you have to hate on the same player to bring balance. Balance is seeing that KP is a good player who is in a pretty bad situation with this team. The team around him sucks defensively. He won't look good when everyone around him is losing his man. Himself when he makes mistakes, they look compounded. In 2-3 years we'll have a really good sense of what type of player he is. I think for a 2nd year player, giving the team 18 points, 7 boards, 2 block a night, on pace to break the league record for 3's and blocks in a season, I mean I'll take that any time of the week.

nyknickzingus you are accusing someone else of having a KP agenda? C'mon!
I'll try to find the article on the clippers where they selected the 5 most important things that led to a win for the clippers. KP's guy had 40. KP had 4 rebounds and he is 7'3. Are you watching the post game?

I understand the critique of KP but really none of this means a damned thing in the overall scheme of things. We all know KP has the talent. He has to keep working and growing. It's not about where he is now but rather what he eventually becomes. Jokic and his team have a losing record too. There's no real prize to be won at this stage. Let's see how KP continues to develop and give him more of a role and see how he develops.

KP actually had one game not that long ago where he started off with a bunch of post touches and he was successful. They were playing thru him and he had 15 pts but then they went away from him and that's the story of his time in NY so far.

He definitely has the potential. He is awesome but he isn't a center and Melo isn't a small forward. I don't know if KP should ever play center. Phil compared him to Bradley. He is so much better than Bradley but he also is really young and needs to fill out a lot if he is going to play the 5. Does KP fit better with Melo/Rose or Jennings/O'Quinn/Willy?

I'm not even concerned with who KP fits with on this current roster aside from Willy!!! We have to start focusing on what is best for KP! Whatever his game develops into we need to build around that.

KP is never going to be the biggest or strongest guy!!! He doesn't have to be. Dirk and KG were sufficiently strong but not bruisers!!! That's where is see KP heading.

Knixkik wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:KPs biggest focus should be his defense. Most number of fouls in the NBA? Are we moving on from one superstar with no D to potentially another one?

KP is number 2 in the league in defensive FG% at the rim. He's already a good defender in some regard. He just can't defend perimeter players.

But for 4s and 5s that can shoot it from the outside, his defense sucks.

nyknickzingis wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:KPs biggest focus should be his defense. Most number of fouls in the NBA? Are we moving on from one superstar with no D to potentially another one?

KP is number 2 in the league in defensive FG% at the rim. He's already a good defender in some regard. He just can't defend perimeter players.

Yeah so that's ONE thing for sure you know he's good at. Defending the rim. While there are so many players on this team who do literally not a single good thing on D consistently. With KP at least you can be sure of, he'll defend the basket or shots at the rim.

This is also his biggest mistake on D. He is too concerned with defending the basket. He has to be told again and again, forget the basket, go get your man on the perimeter. I think 3 coaching staffs in 12 months had to hurt. Fisher probably had one plan on D. Rambis another. Then Horny (even though he used Rambis after). I don't know what they are telling KP to do.

But say the team designs a system on D and puts talent on the floor where KP stays back and protects the rim. Doesn't come out and switch as much. Isn't expected to go rotate on a shooter. To do that you need the team to know this is their strategy and to funnel their man into KP at the basket. We don't really do this. We have a crappy crappy defensive plan and crappy defensive talent.

I think it's impossible to come up with an effective defense with Rose and Melo in it. The lack of range by Melo and lack of effort by Rose is impossible to adjust for. BJ tries hard but he's also bad on D. We saw the team defend much better with the young guys on the floor!!!

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:KPs biggest focus should be his defense. Most number of fouls in the NBA? Are we moving on from one superstar with no D to potentially another one?

KP is number 2 in the league in defensive FG% at the rim. He's already a good defender in some regard. He just can't defend perimeter players.

Yeah so that's ONE thing for sure you know he's good at. Defending the rim. While there are so many players on this team who do literally not a single good thing on D consistently. With KP at least you can be sure of, he'll defend the basket or shots at the rim.

This is also his biggest mistake on D. He is too concerned with defending the basket. He has to be told again and again, forget the basket, go get your man on the perimeter. I think 3 coaching staffs in 12 months had to hurt. Fisher probably had one plan on D. Rambis another. Then Horny (even though he used Rambis after). I don't know what they are telling KP to do.

But say the team designs a system on D and puts talent on the floor where KP stays back and protects the rim. Doesn't come out and switch as much. Isn't expected to go rotate on a shooter. To do that you need the team to know this is their strategy and to funnel their man into KP at the basket. We don't really do this. We have a crappy crappy defensive plan and crappy defensive talent.

I think it's impossible to come up with an effective defense with Rose and Melo in it. The lack of range by Melo and lack of effort by Rose is impossible to adjust for. BJ tries hard but he's also bad on D. We saw the team defend much better with the young guys on the floor!!!

I don't know. The Knicks starting centers have been out rebounded 24-10 in the last two games.

Knicks got the lead with better D from the young guys! I think it makes a difference when you're spending so much time trying to respond to guys beating your teammates and getting you out of position. There's a cause and effect.

WHy he has clearly taken a step back this season, or at the least hasnt progressed. He may just be a 17 5 guy his whole career. Nice player, solid starter, just not quite an all star level talent

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kristaps needs to go to Jokic school of basketball

kyle oquinn is steady and under rated

Jokic is a nice player but so is KP. LET KP BE KP! He's not Jokic and I think KP is not even close to what he is gonna be as he physically matures. KP has another few levels he can go IMO.

Both players are great. Jokic is incredibly skilled. KP has way more upside though.

Why because he is 3 inches taller? That will help him with blocks but right now Jokic may actually be a better defender plus he rebounds like a real big.

No KP really does have more upside. KP seems to be one of those guys that develops slower. He's got more aspects of the game he needs to develop but you can see when he gets his body strength he's gonna get to another level Jokic can't get to.

those Knick color glasses must be awesome.

So you know KP IS DONE DEVELOPING??? STFU!

I never said he was but I also don't know if Jokic is done developing. You know the guy who is only a few months older than KP. I know it is hard for you to understand because you are a company guy.

Jokic is a talented and skilled player and he's developed very fast but some players reach there peak faster than others. IMO KP is a bit behind both physically and in his overall game. However when he finally figures things out and physically fills out I see a guy that can reach a higher level than Jokic at his peak.

Case in point Jokic can't afford to get much heavier or slower as he ages. He's got an advantage right now but I can see how KP down the line could go higher.

He could develop a Kevin love type of consistent 3. He's already a better player inside. Meanwhile all that yellowboy did is express his opinion and you told him to STFU.

Why don't you STFU for a change and LISTEN to logic?

I just LOVE the Knick fans that turn on their own guys. You can see it already. You can't wait to fall in love with a player from another team and assume we got the raw end. I see more upside in KP and you don't have to agree. Jokic has a well rounded game already. I just see more upside in KP. The only way we'll all know is with time. This can't be settled tonight.

Yes I agree but what can be settled is your abusive language. Own up to it.

You can choose to ignore me but I'm not changing. KP has had many highly impressive games and has shown tons of ability as well. I don't like the trend of guys pissin on KP. You don't have to like my response but I know there's been a growing amount of critique that is premature IMO.