CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

CrushAlot wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:Jokic is a really good legit 5
KP is a 7-3 SG.

His way position will be defined based on his teammates
As tonight has shown he can play 5 or 4
But until we get some defenders
It won't matter

He has a tough time playing the 5. He struggles to defend normal sized centers and he can't set screens. The Knicks really need to consider having KP or Melo come off the bench. I think KP fits the second unit. I know that isn't politically correct but I think it is the best thing.

He should have an assortment of hook shots and McHale type pivot moves. Let him take a spot-up 3, but the Melo type dribbling we see from his is a complete waste of time.

He also failed to work on his upper-body, and I think he even said as much, saying that he worked on his lower body...something I have not really noticed, by the way.

His success as a player will depend on his 17ft and under game...hopefully he understands this at some point.

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kristaps needs to go to Jokic school of basketball

kyle oquinn is steady and under rated

Jokic is a nice player but so is KP. LET KP BE KP! He's not Jokic and I think KP is not even close to what he is gonna be as he physically matures. KP has another few levels he can go IMO.

Both players are great. Jokic is incredibly skilled. KP has way more upside though.

Why because he is 3 inches taller? That will help him with blocks but right now Jokic may actually be a better defender plus he rebounds like a real big.

No KP really does have more upside. KP seems to be one of those guys that develops slower. He's got more aspects of the game he needs to develop but you can see when he gets his body strength he's gonna get to another level Jokic can't get to.

those Knick color glasses must be awesome.

So you know KP IS DONE DEVELOPING??? STFU!

I never said he was but I also don't know if Jokic is done developing. You know the guy who is only a few months older than KP. I know it is hard for you to understand because you are a company guy.

Jokic is a talented and skilled player and he's developed very fast but some players reach there peak faster than others. IMO KP is a bit behind both physically and in his overall game. However when he finally figures things out and physically fills out I see a guy that can reach a higher level than Jokic at his peak.

Case in point Jokic can't afford to get much heavier or slower as he ages. He's got an advantage right now but I can see how KP down the line could go higher.

He could develop a Kevin love type of consistent 3. He's already a better player inside. Meanwhile all that yellowboy did is express his opinion and you told him to STFU.

Why don't you STFU for a change and LISTEN to logic?

I just LOVE the Knick fans that turn on their own guys. You can see it already. You can't wait to fall in love with a player from another team and assume we got the raw end. I see more upside in KP and you don't have to agree. Jokic has a well rounded game already. I just see more upside in KP. The only way we'll all know is with time. This can't be settled tonight.

Yes I agree but what can be settled is your abusive language. Own up to it.

You can choose to ignore me but I'm not changing. KP has had many highly impressive games and has shown tons of ability as well. I don't like the trend of guys pissin on KP. You don't have to like my response but I know there's been a growing amount of critique that is premature IMO.

You need to shut the hell up if you can't own to that. Jokic had 40 points tonight on 23 shots.

Here's the problem. Perhaps you can get it through your thick skull. Our best inside big man on offense is Willy. Absolute beast when given the mins. On defense though, typical euro player. KP...not as consistent as Willy on offense and not that better than Willy on defense.

They're both young players. KP is not as good of a runner down the floor as Willy. Willy has more stamina in my opinion.

KP needs some development on the stamina side. He likes to play up and down the court. But the problem is he can't play that for 10 mins at a stretch. Half court then? He doesn't excel at that either. IMO his skill set is fine if he just developed the effort parts of his game. Where jokic is beating him flat out is the desire to grab the rebound, the foresight to make the right pass, KP needs to develop the quick decision making on the pass and he has to want it more.

Defensively we're a mess. Nothing we can do to salvage that. I think KP gets way too much criticism. He had 17 points on 7-14 shooting and was playing out of position half of the game. Good to try him at 5, but I think his best position is 4. He has shown he can stay with his man if he stops thinking about protecting the paint. In the post it's harder for him, and I feel it's an injury waiting to happen.

The advantage of playing Melo at 4 was supposed to be on D. Yet we saw none of it. KP at 5, the same. No advantage. We should just stick with player devlopment and putting KP back at 4, and give minute to Kyle and Willy at 5. They've earned it. I didn't like the Kuz-DNP. Prefer Kuz over N'Dour.

If Melo plays like this the rest of the season, it's good for the team. We'll be able to see what each player can do and what role they could play on next year's team.

Defensively, the one thing I can't say enough about is our guards and perimeter players just do not stay with their man either on or off the ball. So much of a "lax D" and "Switch" mentality. It's horrible. Have pride. Play your man. Don't ask for a switch or make one unless you really really have to. We can't be a good defensive team until we have at least 2 new starters at the perimeter who play with this mindset 24-7.

If Baker could actually produce on offense, he could start. Problem is he can't. Defensively though he has that mindset I like. He does not like losing his man, you can tell. Holiday has it as well. However both guys aren't starting talent especially Baker. We need to find 2 starting level talent guards/wings who play that kind of defensive pride and intensity.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

Jokic and Jordan won the last two games for their teams against KP.

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kristaps needs to go to Jokic school of basketball

kyle oquinn is steady and under rated

Jokic is a nice player but so is KP. LET KP BE KP! He's not Jokic and I think KP is not even close to what he is gonna be as he physically matures. KP has another few levels he can go IMO.

Both players are great. Jokic is incredibly skilled. KP has way more upside though.

Why because he is 3 inches taller? That will help him with blocks but right now Jokic may actually be a better defender plus he rebounds like a real big.

No KP really does have more upside. KP seems to be one of those guys that develops slower. He's got more aspects of the game he needs to develop but you can see when he gets his body strength he's gonna get to another level Jokic can't get to.

those Knick color glasses must be awesome.

So you know KP IS DONE DEVELOPING??? STFU!

I never said he was but I also don't know if Jokic is done developing. You know the guy who is only a few months older than KP. I know it is hard for you to understand because you are a company guy.

Jokic is a talented and skilled player and he's developed very fast but some players reach there peak faster than others. IMO KP is a bit behind both physically and in his overall game. However when he finally figures things out and physically fills out I see a guy that can reach a higher level than Jokic at his peak.

Case in point Jokic can't afford to get much heavier or slower as he ages. He's got an advantage right now but I can see how KP down the line could go higher.

He could develop a Kevin love type of consistent 3. He's already a better player inside. Meanwhile all that yellowboy did is express his opinion and you told him to STFU.

Why don't you STFU for a change and LISTEN to logic?

I just LOVE the Knick fans that turn on their own guys. You can see it already. You can't wait to fall in love with a player from another team and assume we got the raw end. I see more upside in KP and you don't have to agree. Jokic has a well rounded game already. I just see more upside in KP. The only way we'll all know is with time. This can't be settled tonight.

Yes I agree but what can be settled is your abusive language. Own up to it.

You can choose to ignore me but I'm not changing. KP has had many highly impressive games and has shown tons of ability as well. I don't like the trend of guys pissin on KP. You don't have to like my response but I know there's been a growing amount of critique that is premature IMO.

No one is saying he doesn't have tons of potential. Some of us are simply saying... there's a chance that jokic stays ahead of the curve on KP.

You need to shut the hell up if you can't own to that. Jokic had 40 points tonight on 23 shots.

Here's the problem. Perhaps you can get it through your thick skull. Our best inside big man on offense is Willy. Absolute beast when given the mins. On defense though, typical euro player. KP...not as consistent as Willy on offense and not that better than Willy on defense.

They're both young players. KP is not as good of a runner down the floor as Willy. Willy has more stamina in my opinion.

KP needs some development on the stamina side. He likes to play up and down the court. But the problem is he can't play that for 10 mins at a stretch. Half court then? He doesn't excel at that either. IMO his skill set is fine if he just developed the effort parts of his game. Where jokic is beating him flat out is the desire to grab the rebound, the foresight to make the right pass, KP needs to develop the quick decision making on the pass and he has to want it more.

1st off PHUCK YOU!!! Don't think you are teaching me something cuz you're not. All you're doing is pointing out the CURRENT state of development which as I said every player does not develop at the same rate. None of this means Jokic will stay ahead of KP or will sustain what he's doing. They're both very young but clearly Jokic is physically more of a presence right now. KP is a different body type. KP has had many impressive games on his own account and he was looking like a possible All Star before his Achilles. I'm not gonna kill KP for not being all the way there. Like I said some guys develop slower than others.

There's nothing that I see in KP's talent that should prevent him from developing his post game or anything else he wants to do. He's a hard worker and I suspect he'll put in the work this summer to add more to his game and grow physically. He's got so much raw ability already that I can see KP getting to another level. He has to put in the work to be sure, but the talent is there to go higher than Jokic IMO.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Jokic with 40. Wow.

He was great. Let's not forget, 2 months ago he was a non factor averaging 9 pts 6 rebs a game. Then they built the offense around him. Knicks needs to start moving in that direction with KP. You can see what a difference it makes when you get the offense right.

I don't think KP is at that place now. Down the road maybe but not at this point. He has a tough time staying on the floor.

That's why you start now and develop the guy. He's never done it but you do have to put a little more effort into getting him more used to playing that way!!! Jokic is given the opportunity and he's blossomed. Now is the time to work with KP as more of a focal point.

Jokic and Jordan won the last two games for their teams against KP.

So please, I get some people are butt hurt that Phil likes KP enough and believes in KP enough that he wants to build around him and trade Melo, but lets no overreact. KP gave the team 17 points on 7-14 shooting tonight. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose was a -15. Who is paid 50 million on NY to lead the team? Is it KP? Dude's a 2nd year player who is working on his game and weaknesses.

I've never even said KP is a top 10 player, or a franchise player, or anything like that. However if a team rebuilds, and you use him more. that's how you'll see him a) develop and b) know more about who he really is. You won't know squat so long as he ends up games with 14 shots a night. He was on tonight, but didn't get the ball all that much. Which is fine, because the ball is moving on and offense is doing great.

Defensively to blame the entire issues on KP is ridiculous. He was a -3. Melo was a -13. Rose -15. Really want to say KP was the reason we lost those games?

I know some fans like Nix get too high on players or too positive and overrate. But that doesn't mean you have to hate on the same player to bring balance. Balance is seeing that KP is a good player who is in a pretty bad situation with this team. The team around him sucks defensively. He won't look good when everyone around him is losing his man. Himself when he makes mistakes, they look compounded. In 2-3 years we'll have a really good sense of what type of player he is. I think for a 2nd year player, giving the team 18 points, 7 boards, 2 block a night, on pace to break the league record for 3's and blocks in a season, I mean I'll take that any time of the week.

With O'Quinn/Willy and KP we're set at 5/4 for a while. I think with time KP will do fine defending 4's. He has to stop thinking he has to prorect the paint all the time, Realize he has had 3 coaching staffs in his ear in 16 months. All 3 probably told him different things. Fish. Rambis now Horny. So he's going to learn, but it will take time. The other thing we need is a 3, 2 and 1 combination that has pride and will stick with their man longer. Our current 3/2/1 starting unit allows their man to break free literally within a second. It's too easy. You need starters that show some grit, some fight and pride on their man defensively. It will transform how the team looks defensively.

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Kristaps needs to go to Jokic school of basketball

kyle oquinn is steady and under rated

Jokic is a nice player but so is KP. LET KP BE KP! He's not Jokic and I think KP is not even close to what he is gonna be as he physically matures. KP has another few levels he can go IMO.

Both players are great. Jokic is incredibly skilled. KP has way more upside though.

Why because he is 3 inches taller? That will help him with blocks but right now Jokic may actually be a better defender plus he rebounds like a real big.

No KP really does have more upside. KP seems to be one of those guys that develops slower. He's got more aspects of the game he needs to develop but you can see when he gets his body strength he's gonna get to another level Jokic can't get to.

those Knick color glasses must be awesome.

So you know KP IS DONE DEVELOPING??? STFU!

I never said he was but I also don't know if Jokic is done developing. You know the guy who is only a few months older than KP. I know it is hard for you to understand because you are a company guy.

Jokic is a talented and skilled player and he's developed very fast but some players reach there peak faster than others. IMO KP is a bit behind both physically and in his overall game. However when he finally figures things out and physically fills out I see a guy that can reach a higher level than Jokic at his peak.

Case in point Jokic can't afford to get much heavier or slower as he ages. He's got an advantage right now but I can see how KP down the line could go higher.

He could develop a Kevin love type of consistent 3. He's already a better player inside. Meanwhile all that yellowboy did is express his opinion and you told him to STFU.

Why don't you STFU for a change and LISTEN to logic?

I just LOVE the Knick fans that turn on their own guys. You can see it already. You can't wait to fall in love with a player from another team and assume we got the raw end. I see more upside in KP and you don't have to agree. Jokic has a well rounded game already. I just see more upside in KP. The only way we'll all know is with time. This can't be settled tonight.

Yes I agree but what can be settled is your abusive language. Own up to it.

You can choose to ignore me but I'm not changing. KP has had many highly impressive games and has shown tons of ability as well. I don't like the trend of guys pissin on KP. You don't have to like my response but I know there's been a growing amount of critique that is premature IMO.

No one is saying he doesn't have tons of potential. Some of us are simply saying... there's a chance that jokic stays ahead of the curve on KP.

You need to shut the hell up if you can't own to that. Jokic had 40 points tonight on 23 shots.

Here's the problem. Perhaps you can get it through your thick skull. Our best inside big man on offense is Willy. Absolute beast when given the mins. On defense though, typical euro player. KP...not as consistent as Willy on offense and not that better than Willy on defense.

They're both young players. KP is not as good of a runner down the floor as Willy. Willy has more stamina in my opinion.

KP needs some development on the stamina side. He likes to play up and down the court. But the problem is he can't play that for 10 mins at a stretch. Half court then? He doesn't excel at that either. IMO his skill set is fine if he just developed the effort parts of his game. Where jokic is beating him flat out is the desire to grab the rebound, the foresight to make the right pass, KP needs to develop the quick decision making on the pass and he has to want it more.

So True .. people got upset with me 2 month ago when i were comparing Willie to KP .. Quinn is our best low post scoring bigman.
Last season, i kept mentioning the great potential Jokic and Turner had .. Jokic put the Nuggets on his shoulders for a win over the Knicks tonight.