Carmelo Anthony holds the franchise hostage with his no-trade clause. He doesn't want to leave because he cares about living in NYC than winning, which already establishes a bad precedent. Couple this with the fact that his refusal to waive his no-trade clause means that he will continue to dominate the ball for the duration of his contract and refuse to cede anything to Porzingis or anyone else even at his declining skill and increasing age and you have a recipe for continued mediocrity. It hasn't worked with Melo as the #1. It won't work with Melo as the #1 as he continues to get older.

We have another terrible contact on the roster eating cap space in Joakim Noah. This is a guy who maybe gets $5 million on the open market at his current state. He is receiving $18 million to play 20 minutes per game at a diminished state. He is untradeable and unreliable due to health and declining skill. An $18 million per season backup at best. Kyle O'Quinn should be taking much more of his minutes, as should Willy Hernangomez.

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer. If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets. Everyone else is either irrelevant or unwanted. Of course, our biggest asset (Carmelo) is not going anywhere so he is already negated from the list. We have first round picks, which we shouldn't touch, but which aren't the same as having top 5-10 picks. We need another young player with Porzingis level potential or even better. This is an absolute fact. We cannot put all our hopes on Porzingis because no player wins titles on his own. Kristaps will need help and the only place we can acquire that legitimate help is through the NBA draft.

Jeff Hornacek is a mediocre at best coach. It's not his fault this roster was built so poorly by Phil Jackson. But Jeff doesn't coach defense and in my opinion was always a poor man's version of Mike D'Antoni. Very nice guy - but also too nice. Doesn't seem to have the respect of the players but then again a guy like Thibs would have clashed with Anthony often and early.

Phil Jackson doesn't really seem to know what he's doing at this point and insists on giving clueless followers like Kurt Rambis positions in this organization over real basketball people. Phil came in here wand was told he could bring in anyone he wanted and get rid of anyone he wanted. From my understanding, he did absolutely nothing but continue with the status quo and only bring in very few of his own individuals. The same Dolan cronies and spies patrol the Garden, and the same results occur. You can blame a rookie GM in Phil or you can blame the man who gave him $12 million with no GM experience instead of giving that money to a top GM in the league who could have turned this franchise around. You pick.

Some are clamoring to make the playoffs, as if it will accomplish anything. We've made the playoffs a few times already and it's meant nothing. Isiah made the playoffs with Lenny Wilkens and Marbury, Amare made the playoffs when he was punching fire extinguishers, etc. It hasn't raised the prestige of the franchise and it didn't give anyone any 'much-needed experience'. All making the playoffs will do is make some people here think we are a piece or two away from greater things when the reality is we are lightyears away from ever being a real team.

I just think we are in a really sorry state right now. Unless we tank hard and go for a top lotto pick then we are in the worst place you can be in the NBA - utter irrelevancy. If we didn't have Porzingis this team wouldn't matter to anyone. We don't need anymore trades for mediocre role players or aging stars or malcontents. We need to rebuild - truly rebuild - and the sad thing is that we won't. I've been waiting 15 years to rebuild and we haven't. Yet I still am around waiting for it to happen like an idiot. Woe is me I guess.

Gracias por favor.

We have something like 30$M in capspace this summer when we let Rose go. We can spend it on younger players. Hopefully Phil has learned his lesson and signs players like RoLo not older vets in their 30s. 27 or younger, Phil. Preferably 25.

Then there's a lottery pick we are going to be in position to draft.

After that, Melo. He will likely be traded over the offseason. I don't know what we will get,but likely one or two young players or draft picks.

The franchise is stuck because of Melo and Rose and Noah. Invested so much in those players but Melo is not a carry your franchise star anymore, Rose is basically a starter and Noah can't even start anymore. We can't do anything about Noah, but easily can change the Melo/Rose situation.

We took a chance a risk to try and win with Melo. We got Rose, Jennings, Noah, Lee. All hoping it would ignite a playoff run. It hasn't. As you see already we offering him for Love in a trade. We are going to see massive change over the next 6 months. A full rebuild is going to happen. No doubt about it.

Knixkik wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:This may be the most disappointed I've been in this franchise since the Isiah era. We are in no-man's land. Treadmill team stuck in mediocrity. Not good enough to be any real threat to any real team and not bad enough to get a lottery pick that will change the direction of the franchise. We are in a no-win situation in my opinion, similar to the 30-win Layden and Isiah teams that dominated the early to late 2000's.

Carmelo Anthony holds the franchise hostage with his no-trade clause. He doesn't want to leave because he cares about living in NYC than winning, which already establishes a bad precedent. Couple this with the fact that his refusal to waive his no-trade clause means that he will continue to dominate the ball for the duration of his contract and refuse to cede anything to Porzingis or anyone else even at his declining skill and increasing age and you have a recipe for continued mediocrity. It hasn't worked with Melo as the #1. It won't work with Melo as the #1 as he continues to get older.

We have another terrible contact on the roster eating cap space in Joakim Noah. This is a guy who maybe gets $5 million on the open market at his current state. He is receiving $18 million to play 20 minutes per game at a diminished state. He is untradeable and unreliable due to health and declining skill. An $18 million per season backup at best. Kyle O'Quinn should be taking much more of his minutes, as should Willy Hernangomez.

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer. If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets. Everyone else is either irrelevant or unwanted. Of course, our biggest asset (Carmelo) is not going anywhere so he is already negated from the list. We have first round picks, which we shouldn't touch, but which aren't the same as having top 5-10 picks. We need another young player with Porzingis level potential or even better. This is an absolute fact. We cannot put all our hopes on Porzingis because no player wins titles on his own. Kristaps will need help and the only place we can acquire that legitimate help is through the NBA draft.

Jeff Hornacek is a mediocre at best coach. It's not his fault this roster was built so poorly by Phil Jackson. But Jeff doesn't coach defense and in my opinion was always a poor man's version of Mike D'Antoni. Very nice guy - but also too nice. Doesn't seem to have the respect of the players but then again a guy like Thibs would have clashed with Anthony often and early.

Phil Jackson doesn't really seem to know what he's doing at this point and insists on giving clueless followers like Kurt Rambis positions in this organization over real basketball people. Phil came in here wand was told he could bring in anyone he wanted and get rid of anyone he wanted. From my understanding, he did absolutely nothing but continue with the status quo and only bring in very few of his own individuals. The same Dolan cronies and spies patrol the Garden, and the same results occur. You can blame a rookie GM in Phil or you can blame the man who gave him $12 million with no GM experience instead of giving that money to a top GM in the league who could have turned this franchise around. You pick.

Some are clamoring to make the playoffs, as if it will accomplish anything. We've made the playoffs a few times already and it's meant nothing. Isiah made the playoffs with Lenny Wilkens and Marbury, Amare made the playoffs when he was punching fire extinguishers, etc. It hasn't raised the prestige of the franchise and it didn't give anyone any 'much-needed experience'. All making the playoffs will do is make some people here think we are a piece or two away from greater things when the reality is we are lightyears away from ever being a real team.

I just think we are in a really sorry state right now. Unless we tank hard and go for a top lotto pick then we are in the worst place you can be in the NBA - utter irrelevancy. If we didn't have Porzingis this team wouldn't matter to anyone. We don't need anymore trades for mediocre role players or aging stars or malcontents. We need to rebuild - truly rebuild - and the sad thing is that we won't. I've been waiting 15 years to rebuild and we haven't. Yet I still am around waiting for it to happen like an idiot. Woe is me I guess.

Gracias por favor.

This is actually the best place we have been in the last 15 years. We have a 21 year old with star potential, a 22 year old in Willy with starter potential, and we have all of our draft picks moving forward. We also have enough cap space to have options. Comparing this to an era when we were trading away picks, no real stars, no young talent, and no cap space is absurd to me. We need to commit to a plan of building alongside KP though.

$30 million in cap space is nothing when max salaries will start at $40 million per.

JamesKPolk wrote:$30 million in cap space is nothing when max salaries will start at $40 million per.

That number is not correct.

JamesKPolk wrote:This may be the most disappointed I've been in this franchise since the Isiah era. We are in no-man's land. Treadmill team stuck in mediocrity. Not good enough to be any real threat to any real team and not bad enough to get a lottery pick that will change the direction of the franchise. We are in a no-win situation in my opinion, similar to the 30-win Layden and Isiah teams that dominated the early to late 2000's.

Carmelo Anthony holds the franchise hostage with his no-trade clause. He doesn't want to leave because he cares about living in NYC than winning, which already establishes a bad precedent. Couple this with the fact that his refusal to waive his no-trade clause means that he will continue to dominate the ball for the duration of his contract and refuse to cede anything to Porzingis or anyone else even at his declining skill and increasing age and you have a recipe for continued mediocrity. It hasn't worked with Melo as the #1. It won't work with Melo as the #1 as he continues to get older.

We have another terrible contact on the roster eating cap space in Joakim Noah. This is a guy who maybe gets $5 million on the open market at his current state. He is receiving $18 million to play 20 minutes per game at a diminished state. He is untradeable and unreliable due to health and declining skill. An $18 million per season backup at best. Kyle O'Quinn should be taking much more of his minutes, as should Willy Hernangomez.

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer. If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets. Everyone else is either irrelevant or unwanted. Of course, our biggest asset (Carmelo) is not going anywhere so he is already negated from the list. We have first round picks, which we shouldn't touch, but which aren't the same as having top 5-10 picks. We need another young player with Porzingis level potential or even better. This is an absolute fact. We cannot put all our hopes on Porzingis because no player wins titles on his own. Kristaps will need help and the only place we can acquire that legitimate help is through the NBA draft.

Jeff Hornacek is a mediocre at best coach. It's not his fault this roster was built so poorly by Phil Jackson. But Jeff doesn't coach defense and in my opinion was always a poor man's version of Mike D'Antoni. Very nice guy - but also too nice. Doesn't seem to have the respect of the players but then again a guy like Thibs would have clashed with Anthony often and early.

Phil Jackson doesn't really seem to know what he's doing at this point and insists on giving clueless followers like Kurt Rambis positions in this organization over real basketball people. Phil came in here wand was told he could bring in anyone he wanted and get rid of anyone he wanted. From my understanding, he did absolutely nothing but continue with the status quo and only bring in very few of his own individuals. The same Dolan cronies and spies patrol the Garden, and the same results occur. You can blame a rookie GM in Phil or you can blame the man who gave him $12 million with no GM experience instead of giving that money to a top GM in the league who could have turned this franchise around. You pick.

Some are clamoring to make the playoffs, as if it will accomplish anything. We've made the playoffs a few times already and it's meant nothing. Isiah made the playoffs with Lenny Wilkens and Marbury, Amare made the playoffs when he was punching fire extinguishers, etc. It hasn't raised the prestige of the franchise and it didn't give anyone any 'much-needed experience'. All making the playoffs will do is make some people here think we are a piece or two away from greater things when the reality is we are lightyears away from ever being a real team.

I just think we are in a really sorry state right now. Unless we tank hard and go for a top lotto pick then we are in the worst place you can be in the NBA - utter irrelevancy. If we didn't have Porzingis this team wouldn't matter to anyone. We don't need anymore trades for mediocre role players or aging stars or malcontents. We need to rebuild - truly rebuild - and the sad thing is that we won't. I've been waiting 15 years to rebuild and we haven't. Yet I still am around waiting for it to happen like an idiot. Woe is me I guess.

Gracias por favor.

I totally agree with you. How long must we the fans have to go through the same dance. We need a rebuild and its the only way for sustained winning in the future. Youth movement has to happen. The Knicks need to get more picks high picks at that and the veteran players do nothing for the team its been long over due they need to be moved.

Vmart wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:This may be the most disappointed I've been in this franchise since the Isiah era. We are in no-man's land. Treadmill team stuck in mediocrity. Not good enough to be any real threat to any real team and not bad enough to get a lottery pick that will change the direction of the franchise. We are in a no-win situation in my opinion, similar to the 30-win Layden and Isiah teams that dominated the early to late 2000's.

Carmelo Anthony holds the franchise hostage with his no-trade clause. He doesn't want to leave because he cares about living in NYC than winning, which already establishes a bad precedent. Couple this with the fact that his refusal to waive his no-trade clause means that he will continue to dominate the ball for the duration of his contract and refuse to cede anything to Porzingis or anyone else even at his declining skill and increasing age and you have a recipe for continued mediocrity. It hasn't worked with Melo as the #1. It won't work with Melo as the #1 as he continues to get older.

We have another terrible contact on the roster eating cap space in Joakim Noah. This is a guy who maybe gets $5 million on the open market at his current state. He is receiving $18 million to play 20 minutes per game at a diminished state. He is untradeable and unreliable due to health and declining skill. An $18 million per season backup at best. Kyle O'Quinn should be taking much more of his minutes, as should Willy Hernangomez.

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer. If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets. Everyone else is either irrelevant or unwanted. Of course, our biggest asset (Carmelo) is not going anywhere so he is already negated from the list. We have first round picks, which we shouldn't touch, but which aren't the same as having top 5-10 picks. We need another young player with Porzingis level potential or even better. This is an absolute fact. We cannot put all our hopes on Porzingis because no player wins titles on his own. Kristaps will need help and the only place we can acquire that legitimate help is through the NBA draft.

Jeff Hornacek is a mediocre at best coach. It's not his fault this roster was built so poorly by Phil Jackson. But Jeff doesn't coach defense and in my opinion was always a poor man's version of Mike D'Antoni. Very nice guy - but also too nice. Doesn't seem to have the respect of the players but then again a guy like Thibs would have clashed with Anthony often and early.

Phil Jackson doesn't really seem to know what he's doing at this point and insists on giving clueless followers like Kurt Rambis positions in this organization over real basketball people. Phil came in here wand was told he could bring in anyone he wanted and get rid of anyone he wanted. From my understanding, he did absolutely nothing but continue with the status quo and only bring in very few of his own individuals. The same Dolan cronies and spies patrol the Garden, and the same results occur. You can blame a rookie GM in Phil or you can blame the man who gave him $12 million with no GM experience instead of giving that money to a top GM in the league who could have turned this franchise around. You pick.

Some are clamoring to make the playoffs, as if it will accomplish anything. We've made the playoffs a few times already and it's meant nothing. Isiah made the playoffs with Lenny Wilkens and Marbury, Amare made the playoffs when he was punching fire extinguishers, etc. It hasn't raised the prestige of the franchise and it didn't give anyone any 'much-needed experience'. All making the playoffs will do is make some people here think we are a piece or two away from greater things when the reality is we are lightyears away from ever being a real team.

I just think we are in a really sorry state right now. Unless we tank hard and go for a top lotto pick then we are in the worst place you can be in the NBA - utter irrelevancy. If we didn't have Porzingis this team wouldn't matter to anyone. We don't need anymore trades for mediocre role players or aging stars or malcontents. We need to rebuild - truly rebuild - and the sad thing is that we won't. I've been waiting 15 years to rebuild and we haven't. Yet I still am around waiting for it to happen like an idiot. Woe is me I guess.

Gracias por favor.

I totally agree with you. How long must we the fans have to go through the same dance. We need a rebuild and its the only way for sustained winning in the future. Youth movement has to happen. The Knicks need to get more picks high picks at that and the veteran players do nothing for the team its been long over due they need to be moved.

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Vmart wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:This may be the most disappointed I've been in this franchise since the Isiah era. We are in no-man's land. Treadmill team stuck in mediocrity. Not good enough to be any real threat to any real team and not bad enough to get a lottery pick that will change the direction of the franchise. We are in a no-win situation in my opinion, similar to the 30-win Layden and Isiah teams that dominated the early to late 2000's.

Carmelo Anthony holds the franchise hostage with his no-trade clause. He doesn't want to leave because he cares about living in NYC than winning, which already establishes a bad precedent. Couple this with the fact that his refusal to waive his no-trade clause means that he will continue to dominate the ball for the duration of his contract and refuse to cede anything to Porzingis or anyone else even at his declining skill and increasing age and you have a recipe for continued mediocrity. It hasn't worked with Melo as the #1. It won't work with Melo as the #1 as he continues to get older.

We have another terrible contact on the roster eating cap space in Joakim Noah. This is a guy who maybe gets $5 million on the open market at his current state. He is receiving $18 million to play 20 minutes per game at a diminished state. He is untradeable and unreliable due to health and declining skill. An $18 million per season backup at best. Kyle O'Quinn should be taking much more of his minutes, as should Willy Hernangomez.

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer. If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets. Everyone else is either irrelevant or unwanted. Of course, our biggest asset (Carmelo) is not going anywhere so he is already negated from the list. We have first round picks, which we shouldn't touch, but which aren't the same as having top 5-10 picks. We need another young player with Porzingis level potential or even better. This is an absolute fact. We cannot put all our hopes on Porzingis because no player wins titles on his own. Kristaps will need help and the only place we can acquire that legitimate help is through the NBA draft.

Jeff Hornacek is a mediocre at best coach. It's not his fault this roster was built so poorly by Phil Jackson. But Jeff doesn't coach defense and in my opinion was always a poor man's version of Mike D'Antoni. Very nice guy - but also too nice. Doesn't seem to have the respect of the players but then again a guy like Thibs would have clashed with Anthony often and early.

Phil Jackson doesn't really seem to know what he's doing at this point and insists on giving clueless followers like Kurt Rambis positions in this organization over real basketball people. Phil came in here wand was told he could bring in anyone he wanted and get rid of anyone he wanted. From my understanding, he did absolutely nothing but continue with the status quo and only bring in very few of his own individuals. The same Dolan cronies and spies patrol the Garden, and the same results occur. You can blame a rookie GM in Phil or you can blame the man who gave him $12 million with no GM experience instead of giving that money to a top GM in the league who could have turned this franchise around. You pick.

Some are clamoring to make the playoffs, as if it will accomplish anything. We've made the playoffs a few times already and it's meant nothing. Isiah made the playoffs with Lenny Wilkens and Marbury, Amare made the playoffs when he was punching fire extinguishers, etc. It hasn't raised the prestige of the franchise and it didn't give anyone any 'much-needed experience'. All making the playoffs will do is make some people here think we are a piece or two away from greater things when the reality is we are lightyears away from ever being a real team.

I just think we are in a really sorry state right now. Unless we tank hard and go for a top lotto pick then we are in the worst place you can be in the NBA - utter irrelevancy. If we didn't have Porzingis this team wouldn't matter to anyone. We don't need anymore trades for mediocre role players or aging stars or malcontents. We need to rebuild - truly rebuild - and the sad thing is that we won't. I've been waiting 15 years to rebuild and we haven't. Yet I still am around waiting for it to happen like an idiot. Woe is me I guess.

Gracias por favor.

I totally agree with you. How long must we the fans have to go through the same dance. We need a rebuild and its the only way for sustained winning in the future. Youth movement has to happen. The Knicks need to get more picks high picks at that and the veteran players do nothing for the team its been long over due they need to be moved.

But how do we rebuild when people are already getting frustrated with KP? The expectation needs to change for a successful rebuild.

The KP frustration is stupid it's not on him it's a system problem. They aren't putting him in opportunities to be more successful. They have him hanging around the three point line and taking 15+ feet jumpers on top of it they have him guarding a small forward on defense. It's the ultimate stupidity.

You got to rebuild it has to happen all this organization does is bang their head against a wall.

Exactly right. Just hoping at some point fans break the trend of killing their star players. Ewing, Melo, and now the hate on KP is already starting here. There needs to be a serious commitment to letting him play thru his struggles and ups and downs without the calls for trading and benching him before fans are ready for a rebuild.

Sambakick wrote:

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer.

Sounds bad.

If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets

So half the team are assets. This contradicts with your "such few moveable assets" assertion. I'm questioning if you're remembering how bad it was when our assets were Jared Jeffries and Jerome James.

Half the team is not 6 players. And of those players, as I mentioned, only Carmelo has real value.

The other players have value in that the other team won't laugh at us and hang up the phone if we offered them in a trade, not that they are super valuable players.

JamesKPolk wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer.

Sounds bad.

If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets

So half the team are assets. This contradicts with your "such few moveable assets" assertion. I'm questioning if you're remembering how bad it was when our assets were Jared Jeffries and Jerome James.

Half the team is not 6 players. And of those players, as I mentioned, only Carmelo has real value.

The other players have value in that the other team won't laugh at us and hang up the phone if we offered them in a trade, not that they are super valuable players.

We could also trade Derrick Rose or Brandon Jennings since they are ending deals and a team in need of PG help may come calling. Jennings has a very easy contract to move. Baker N'Dour and Plumlee cost too little to worry about. The picture you paint is not accurate.

Sambakick wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

We have such few moveable assets that we are back to the days where we are no in any trade discussions because we have nothing to offer.

Sounds bad.

If I'm really considering players we have as players other teams would want I would list Carmelo, O'Quinn, Lee, Kuzminskas, Hernangomez and Justin Holiday as assets

So half the team are assets. This contradicts with your "such few moveable assets" assertion. I'm questioning if you're remembering how bad it was when our assets were Jared Jeffries and Jerome James.

Half the team is not 6 players. And of those players, as I mentioned, only Carmelo has real value.

The other players have value in that the other team won't laugh at us and hang up the phone if we offered them in a trade, not that they are super valuable players.

We could also trade Derrick Rose or Brandon Jennings since they are ending deals and a team in need of PG help may come calling. Jennings has a very easy contract to move. Baker N'Dour and Plumlee cost too little to worry about. The picture you paint is not accurate.

Ndour and Plumlee are scrubs. Baker is a borderline scrub. None of these guys are worthy of a discussion. Same goes for a few others on the roster.

As for Jennings, he can get you a 2nd rounder from a team in need of a backup PG.

Rose makes too much money for anyone to trade for someone of his skill level, even on an ending deal.

I wouldn't trade Rose or Jennings for any longer contracts so that greatly reduces the destinations.