nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.

That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.

12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107

All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.

I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.

Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.

These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.

It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!

I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.

I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:

http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/20161213/NYKPHX/knicks/analysis

We were down big until late in that game.

Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.

My arguement is really that it comes down to who is on the floor when we get big deficits. I would argue it is probably Joakim Noah. Right now he's around 400th in the league in plus/minus.

Also this,

The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.

Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.

#FreeWilly

These stats just confirmed the EYE TEST regarding Willy! More often than not Willy has an immediate positive impact on the team. He's dynamic on both ends and he's getting better.

I love Willy and want him to start, but I wouldn't read much into these stats, based on the amount of his PT. The stats are probably more noise than anything he is doing right now.

Why do you think WILLY's stats aren't going to hold up with more minutes? If anything he might actually be better with more consistent minutes.

one time for my boy Bonn who reps small sample size.

I have no idea if his defensive numbers will hold up but this does back the eye test in that I thought he looked better playing defense lately. One thing that helps Willy is that unlike the other bigs he is not foul happy and seems to be a decent rim protector. Coming out the most scouting reports thought he would struggle defensively but like Marc Gasol he is not as bad as predicted. He has even done pretty good job against stretch 4s. He deserves more minutes so the coaches can get a better feel on if his numbers will hold.

nixluva wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

franco12 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

crzymdups wrote:If the Knicks had won all 7, they'd be 27-19 instead of 20-26.

That'd be good for 4th place in the East. Instead we're in 10th.

12/13 @ PHX L - 111-113 OT
12/28 @ ATL L - 98-102 OT
1/4 MIL L - 104-105
1/11 PHI L - 97-98
1/16 ATL L - 107-108
1/19 WAS L - 110-113
1/21 PHX L - 105-107

All of those games could've been won. There were terrible ref calls in almost all of them, but also dubious lineup decisions and playcalling.

I think this is one reason Noah has to be benched for Willy. Willy could've changed the course of some of these games. Our margin is not huge - we're not a great team, but we could at least be a good one.

Jeff has to play the guys who are playing well. Guys who are playing poorly should not get minutes based on their contracts and stature. They need to sit for the good of the team.

These close games give me some hope that they can turn it around.

It's deceptive though, I'm sure all those games featured the standard quarter where the opposing team scored 30 to 40 points, while we score in the teens. Those losses were way worse than the end score suggestes- we were awful and deserved to lose every one of them!

I think this is it - we've been down big in all of these games. Sure, they have talent to win and come back - but this is not a good team.

I hate the new NBA site - you can't just get a box score:

http://www.nba.com/gametracker/#/20161213/NYKPHX/knicks/analysis

We were down big until late in that game.

Even last night - I don't know to what extent we won that as the Pacers lost the game.

My arguement is really that it comes down to who is on the floor when we get big deficits. I would argue it is probably Joakim Noah. Right now he's around 400th in the league in plus/minus.

Also this,

The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.

Though his playing time has been sporadic and limited, the Knicks are allowing 10.0 more points per 100 possessions when Hernangomez is off the court than when he is.

#FreeWilly

These stats just confirmed the EYE TEST regarding Willy! More often than not Willy has an immediate positive impact on the team. He's dynamic on both ends and he's getting better.

I love Willy and want him to start, but I wouldn't read much into these stats, based on the amount of his PT. The stats are probably more noise than anything he is doing right now.

Why do you think WILLY's stats aren't going to hold up with more minutes? If anything he might actually be better with more consistent minutes.

Didn't say they won't hold up or get better. Just said I have low confidence on the stats now since his minutes are mostly sporadic. Just suppose he and Jennings come in very close to each other and stay on floor as long as each other. Then the impact could be due to Jennings or Willy or both. there just isn't enough data at this point. Or maybe he is on the floor mostly when Melo/Rose are sitting and the whole team benefits from better offense and defense pumping up the per 100 possession stats.

nyknickzingis wrote:I've mentioned this a few times already about the close games
We easily could be .500 right now and a 7th seed

Still would that make us really any good? We are still not good enough to compete with the top 3-4 teams in the East. A team with Melo, Rose and KP should be doing better than a 7th seed

I don't care anymore about the playoffs. I'm looking forward to a good draft pick. However we must prioritize playing the rookies and sophomores. Willy needs 20-24 a night. Plumlee should be a regular 10-12 minute guy. KP needs to get opportunities at 4 and 5. Post up smaller 4s take the ball out and shoot against 5s. Kuz needs 25 minutes a game. Baker needs to get 15 minutes a game. That's five players there who I feel are being mishandled a little and need consistent roles and time. They are all easily coming back for cheap next year. The rest of the season should be about getting those players good opportunities and gain confidence.

Melo and Rose will always be able to put up their numbers, they are stars. We really need to find ways to completely bench Noah, lower Melo's playing time and to give KP, Willy, Kuz, Baker and Plumlee a consistent role.

I'm completely down with this

nixluva wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:I've mentioned this a few times already about the close games
We easily could be .500 right now and a 7th seed

Still would that make us really any good? We are still not good enough to compete with the top 3-4 teams in the East. A team with Melo, Rose and KP should be doing better than a 7th seed

I don't care anymore about the playoffs. I'm looking forward to a good draft pick. However we must prioritize playing the rookies and sophomores. Willy needs 20-24 a night. Plumlee should be a regular 10-12 minute guy. KP needs to get opportunities at 4 and 5. Post up smaller 4s take the ball out and shoot against 5s. Kuz needs 25 minutes a game. Baker needs to get 15 minutes a game. That's five players there who I feel are being mishandled a little and need consistent roles and time. They are all easily coming back for cheap next year. The rest of the season should be about getting those players good opportunities and gain confidence.

Melo and Rose will always be able to put up their numbers, they are stars. We really need to find ways to completely bench Noah, lower Melo's playing time and to give KP, Willy, Kuz, Baker and Plumlee a consistent role.

I felt from the start that this team had GREAT upside. I still think that we haven't seen anywhere close to the best this team can play. I do think the kids are getting better and that overall the chemistry is inconsistent but should it ever click in as I suspect it will, then this team will rise several levels from where it's been.

For a moment just imagine this team clicking on all cylinders! We haven't seen that yet and it's entirely possible. Chemistry is a very elusive and intangible thing and you can never predict when it finally comes together. Don't let the poor play cloud the fact that this team does have significant talent that has yet to fully come together. Only in spurts has this team really shown what it's capable of doing. They might be getting closer and we just don't see it yet.

You bring this same group back next year and you probably will have a 500 team or better. That is why I wanted to stick with the group from last year- give them more time together.

But at what cost? We're already pretty maxed out with Melo, Lee and Noah. Add Rose and what do you have, a $100m per year for four guys that are either getting old, about to break down or contributing poorly vs. their salary?

A sane organization says no.

nyknickzingis wrote:We're not going to keep both Rose and Melo if this team winds up in the lottery. One will go. This I'm sure of. A lottery team will not keep both of them at the super max deals. If we had managed to go 2 rounds deep in the playoffs, yes it would have happened, How this will play out in my opinion is that we will try to deal Melo before free agency, some time between the end of the season and the start of free agency. If we are able to, then I see us being much more interested in keeping Rose, However not for 150 million. Phil was talking about the craziness of Conley getting that, and Conley is a better player than Rose (because of better defense). We may make a run at Rubio through trade, or make a run for Holiday in free agency. Other point guards aren't leaving to come to NY. I could see Phil want to bring in Hayward from Utah. Would fit Phil's and Horny's type of player well. Again though that only happens in a post-Melo trade.

In my humble plan, we wind up dealing Melo for some role players that are 27 or younger and play defense, can shoot the 3. We draft a young guard that can become a starter for us with the lottery pick. We sign Hayward in free agency using the max. Keep Holiday. Would like to see a plan like that for this team moving forward.

i agree with a lot of this. It also in my opinion shows some of the wisdom in Phil trading for Rose (which we previously discussed when it happened): Low downside risk; high upside. If he's studly we can offer more --lock him up. If he doesn't work we let him go and move on. Right now it's a puzzle, he extremely talented at getting to the rim (would be better to draw fouls but...); he is not the distributor we want and that would need to come from another player. I also agree if we don't make some noise in the playoffs no way we keep both those guys -- way too much cap.

on hayward, i have to imagine we will have huge competition from celts. His old college coach is Stevens. The other night the celts fans were cheering Hayward (believe me that never, ever happens) and Crowder was class-A pissed about that. That will be an attractive spot for him