knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:The NBA changed to rules to favor perimeter players who can score..It would be such a Knick thing to do to trade for a PG who can't score..

Yep and pair him with Lee! Madness!

he's never even been to the playoffs, or had a winning season, so what is his mentality like if all he knows is losing

Not sure that you're providing proof Rubio wouldn't succeed with the talent we have around him. Literally anytime BJ or Rose actually focus on passing the team immediately plays at a higher level.
NONE of our guards have the court vision or passing ability of Rubio. He should be able to win here.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:The NBA changed to rules to favor perimeter players who can score..It would be such a Knick thing to do to trade for a PG who can't score..

Yep and pair him with Lee! Madness!

he's never even been to the playoffs, or had a winning season, so what is his mentality like if all he knows is losing

Not sure that you're providing proof Rubio wouldn't succeed with the talent we have around him. Literally anytime BJ or Rose actually focus on passing the team immediately plays at a higher level.
NONE of our guards have the court vision or passing ability of Rubio. He should be able to win here.

Agree it would be good to have a better PG. However, Rubio at 14M, to me, is not worth it. (May be why they have been shopping him) Would rather Jennings, with less dribbling(Can be worked on with good coaches) or Baker with much less salary and a Jumper, are more reasonable options. Would also keep Rose at SG or off the bench. His talent of getting to the rim is just unmatched by most in league. Or we can hope he adds passing to his game. Which I believe he can, as he averaged close to 7 dimes per his first 4 years. Just think he is still trying to get his complete game back. Maybe trying too hard, specially in contract year.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:The NBA changed to rules to favor perimeter players who can score..It would be such a Knick thing to do to trade for a PG who can't score..

Yep and pair him with Lee! Madness!

he's never even been to the playoffs, or had a winning season, so what is his mentality like if all he knows is losing

Not sure that you're providing proof Rubio wouldn't succeed with the talent we have around him. Literally anytime BJ or Rose actually focus on passing the team immediately plays at a higher level.
NONE of our guards have the court vision or passing ability of Rubio. He should be able to win here.

Providing proof? How do you prove a player won't succeed?
Anyway, Rubio is a player of extremes. He has outstanding strengths and extreme weaknesses. Very few PGs has his assist-turnover ratio, rebounding, or steals. But very few have as bad a shooting percentage (.371% is off the charts) and most have better man to man defense #s. Overall, I don't think it's worth $13 or 14 mil a year. If we were trading Lee or Noah for him, I'd do that to get out of their contracts, though.

Not being able to prove Rubio can't succeed here was might point exactly!!! Just cuz his teams in Manny haven't won doesn't preclude Rubio from helping this team win. This is a different set of circumstances.

We all know he's a flawed player but the areas of strength he has fit right into the needs of this team. We all wish we could have a complete player but those guys are rare and nearly impossible to get. His contract is not long and isn't really that expensive by today's standards. What do people think Jrue Holiday's next contract will be?

IN NY with Melo, KP, and Rose, Rubio could just do what he does best and that is distribute and defend. It kind of makes sense to bring him in.

The guy was meant to play for the Knicks. I remember how badly the fan base wanted him before the draft.

Jennings and LT for Rubio works. We lose LT's defense but otherwise, I could live with it, because Kuz and Holiday get more time then.

smackeddog wrote:On reflection, I'm fine getting Rubio as a vet to have as part of a rebuild - if we're getting rid of rose melo and Lee. Don't want him as a sticky plaster move though

Yeah, if we're getting out of those contracts (or Noah's) it's a good trade.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:The NBA changed to rules to favor perimeter players who can score..It would be such a Knick thing to do to trade for a PG who can't score..

Yep and pair him with Lee! Madness!

he's never even been to the playoffs, or had a winning season, so what is his mentality like if all he knows is losing

Not sure that you're providing proof Rubio wouldn't succeed with the talent we have around him. Literally anytime BJ or Rose actually focus on passing the team immediately plays at a higher level.
NONE of our guards have the court vision or passing ability of Rubio. He should be able to win here.

Providing proof? How do you prove a player won't succeed?
Anyway, Rubio is a player of extremes. He has outstanding strengths and extreme weaknesses. Very few PGs has his assist-turnover ratio, rebounding, or steals. But very few have as bad a shooting percentage (.371% is off the charts) and most have better man to man defense #s. Overall, I don't think it's worth $13 or 14 mil a year. If we were trading Lee or Noah for him, I'd do that to get out of their contracts, though.

Not being able to prove Rubio can't succeed here was might point exactly!!! Just cuz his teams in Manny haven't won doesn't preclude Rubio from helping this team win. This is a different set of circumstances.

We all know he's a flawed player but the areas of strength he has fit right into the needs of this team. We all wish we could have a complete player but those guys are rare and nearly impossible to get. His contract is not long and isn't really that expensive by today's standards. What do people think Jrue Holiday's next contract will be?

No, the point was it's impossible to prove how a player will play in the future. That's why I asked you what kind of evidence you were looking for. Give me some examples of what kind of information would in theory prove the player won't succeed.
The point is, even with Rubio, the team is still going to be bad. He's not going to turn a .400 team into a .600 team. So I'd rather just have a player with upside on a rookie contract or affordable vet contract. The smartest teams make occasional mistakes but they usually spend around $14 mil a year only on players who are borderline all-stars or legit all-stars.

MY FUCKING POINT IS THERE IS NO PROOF!!! Rubio could come here and excel in this scenario which is different than Minnesota.

You simply can't say for sure that the combination of Rubio with these players won't work better and enhance the way this team functions. Based on his strengths and this team's needs I believe Rubio could be beneficial for the Knicks. My view is that we see the impact BJ has whenever he looks to pass and IMO Rubio is far superior as a passing PG than BJ!!! That's my rationale for believing Rubio could be successful here despite his lack of success in Minnesota.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:The NBA changed to rules to favor perimeter players who can score..It would be such a Knick thing to do to trade for a PG who can't score..

Yep and pair him with Lee! Madness!

he's never even been to the playoffs, or had a winning season, so what is his mentality like if all he knows is losing

Not sure that you're providing proof Rubio wouldn't succeed with the talent we have around him. Literally anytime BJ or Rose actually focus on passing the team immediately plays at a higher level.
NONE of our guards have the court vision or passing ability of Rubio. He should be able to win here.

Providing proof? How do you prove a player won't succeed?
Anyway, Rubio is a player of extremes. He has outstanding strengths and extreme weaknesses. Very few PGs has his assist-turnover ratio, rebounding, or steals. But very few have as bad a shooting percentage (.371% is off the charts) and most have better man to man defense #s. Overall, I don't think it's worth $13 or 14 mil a year. If we were trading Lee or Noah for him, I'd do that to get out of their contracts, though.

Not being able to prove Rubio can't succeed here was might point exactly!!! Just cuz his teams in Manny haven't won doesn't preclude Rubio from helping this team win. This is a different set of circumstances.

We all know he's a flawed player but the areas of strength he has fit right into the needs of this team. We all wish we could have a complete player but those guys are rare and nearly impossible to get. His contract is not long and isn't really that expensive by today's standards. What do people think Jrue Holiday's next contract will be?

No, the point was it's impossible to prove how a player will play in the future. That's why I asked you what kind of evidence you were looking for. Give me some examples of what kind of information would in theory prove the player won't succeed.
The point is, even with Rubio, the team is still going to be bad. He's not going to turn a .400 team into a .600 team. So I'd rather just have a player with upside on a rookie contract or affordable vet contract. The smartest teams make occasional mistakes but they usually spend around $14 mil a year only on players who are borderline all-stars or legit all-stars.

MY FUCKING POINT IS THERE IS NO PROOF!!! Rubio could come here and excel in this scenario which is different than Minnesota.

You simply can't say for sure that the combination of Rubio with these players won't work better and enhance the way this team functions. Based on his strengths and this team's needs I believe Rubio could be beneficial for the Knicks. My view is that we see the impact BJ has whenever he looks to pass and IMO Rubio is far superior as a passing PG than BJ!!! That's my rationale for believing Rubio could be successful here despite his lack of success in Minnesota.

Dude, there's no proof about anything in the future. Of course I can't say for sure what will happen in the future. We can only discuss what decisions have good odds and what decisions have poor odds. Paying Rubio as much as most all-stars are paid is a poor gamble IMO.

If this is about financial risk It's possible that Rubio could be over priced . The trade would offset Rubio's contract tho. Jennings and Thomas works. I still think if Phil isn't blowing this team up then Rubio is not a bad move to add a legit PG to this mix. Rose n Melo should have NOTHING to do with handling the ball or running the offense.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

holfresh wrote:The NBA changed to rules to favor perimeter players who can score..It would be such a Knick thing to do to trade for a PG who can't score..

Yep and pair him with Lee! Madness!

he's never even been to the playoffs, or had a winning season, so what is his mentality like if all he knows is losing

Not sure that you're providing proof Rubio wouldn't succeed with the talent we have around him. Literally anytime BJ or Rose actually focus on passing the team immediately plays at a higher level.
NONE of our guards have the court vision or passing ability of Rubio. He should be able to win here.

Providing proof? How do you prove a player won't succeed?
Anyway, Rubio is a player of extremes. He has outstanding strengths and extreme weaknesses. Very few PGs has his assist-turnover ratio, rebounding, or steals. But very few have as bad a shooting percentage (.371% is off the charts) and most have better man to man defense #s. Overall, I don't think it's worth $13 or 14 mil a year. If we were trading Lee or Noah for him, I'd do that to get out of their contracts, though.

Not being able to prove Rubio can't succeed here was might point exactly!!! Just cuz his teams in Manny haven't won doesn't preclude Rubio from helping this team win. This is a different set of circumstances.

We all know he's a flawed player but the areas of strength he has fit right into the needs of this team. We all wish we could have a complete player but those guys are rare and nearly impossible to get. His contract is not long and isn't really that expensive by today's standards. What do people think Jrue Holiday's next contract will be?

No, the point was it's impossible to prove how a player will play in the future. That's why I asked you what kind of evidence you were looking for. Give me some examples of what kind of information would in theory prove the player won't succeed.
The point is, even with Rubio, the team is still going to be bad. He's not going to turn a .400 team into a .600 team. So I'd rather just have a player with upside on a rookie contract or affordable vet contract. The smartest teams make occasional mistakes but they usually spend around $14 mil a year only on players who are borderline all-stars or legit all-stars.

MY FUCKING POINT IS THERE IS NO PROOF!!! Rubio could come here and excel in this scenario which is different than Minnesota.

You simply can't say for sure that the combination of Rubio with these players won't work better and enhance the way this team functions. Based on his strengths and this team's needs I believe Rubio could be beneficial for the Knicks. My view is that we see the impact BJ has whenever he looks to pass and IMO Rubio is far superior as a passing PG than BJ!!! That's my rationale for believing Rubio could be successful here despite his lack of success in Minnesota.

Dude, there's no proof about anything in the future. Of course I can't say for sure what will happen in the future. We can only discuss what decisions have good odds and what decisions have poor odds. Paying Rubio as much as most all-stars are paid is a poor gamble IMO.

If this is about financial risk It's possible that Rubio could be over priced . The trade would offset Rubio's contract tho. Jennings and Thomas works. I still think if Phil isn't blowing this team up then Rubio is not a bad move to add a legit PG to this mix. Rose n Melo should have NOTHING to do with handling the ball or running the offense.

That doesn't off-set the price. It adds more to future payroll. Trading Noah or Lee for Rubio would off-set the price.

nyknickzingis wrote:Rubio would be an upgrade over Jennings. Not that Thibs would take the deal, but I'd offer Jennings and O'Quinn for Rubio. If they took that then we upgraded. Rubio is a good reserve player to have. Sometimes can slide in and help with them. He is not your franchise point guard or anything like that. Think of him as a much much better version of Baker. When Baker plays great, that's Rubio most days. I like him, I would take him, but not to be the starting point guard. He can't shoot and it's too easy to defend a team like that. Look at how much the Wolves are still struggling.

I like Rubio as the first guard off the bench. For a starting point guard or the #1 guard on the team, we have to either keep Rose for the short term or find someone in the draft or hope a good free agent signs with us. Options are limited. It's why I want to draft higher this year, I think we can pick someone possibly there.