Knixkik wrote:Too bad a positive thread here never gets any traction. If you don't post something really negative, it won't generate any conversation.

For what its worth, our core of KP, Willy, and this year's draft pick is the best we have had in forever. I would include Melo too, for now. Only place to go is up, for those who don't let the media get to them.

Im actually ok with this core and letting them figure it out. Just make the playoffs and KP stay healthy.
Willy is nice addition and I do like they are easing him in. The spaceing is good with what the knicks are doing when he is on the court, and he gets some nice transition points. That is not starter material stuff yet, and he has missed assignments in crunch time, which is ok for rookie to learn. Kuz is finding his shot and adjusting to the speed of the game. At 3mm, he is an improvement over Derrick Williams.

Rose is a tough fit as he was in Chicago. Half the season down the knicks problems are more apparent. But, He is physically doing well but I'd say that unless he develops a better shot I'd be very wary of paying him want he wants to be paid.

Some good stuff here, there is more to our big men than just Noah, who rebounds at a great level when he is on the floor. After him, Our bigs are not over paid and they are doing well. With Willy, we even have a prospect!!!!!!! Imagine such a thing!
Baker is a nice surprise but far from out of the woods regarding his future value. Im not sold, but that's ok. A work in progress.

The only disappointment is Jennings who's jump shot makes me want to throw up in my mouth half the time. Seemingly every shot is off balance.

Most fans reactions are like playing a driving video game. Too many strong movements or "over steer". "Dump players", "Dump Players"," use 2nd round picks as sweetners ", etc etc......

Nothing new. The expectation is "change will bring improvement". Sometimes change brings decline.
Losing suck, that we can all agree on!

I don't want to install a culture of tanking or losing for good, but 2-3 years in this spot is way better than 4-5 years of where we have been with Melo. Thank god Phil Jackson didn't do what previous management did and that's trade away our picks. We will be drafting in the lottery this year and hopefully at least get a 8-10 year starter. Maybe not an all-star but someone good if we scout right and pick the right fit.

I hate where we are. I think we have enough talent to be in a top 5 team in the East, but because of having players that don't have the young fresh legs to defend AND run up at a high paced offense, the Knicks can not play enough defense to be a good team. It won't change.

Where I like what we have is that we have some trade chips. Melo possibly. O'Quinn's value is higher. Jennings, possibly Rose. Last year contracts maybe interest a playoff team looking to trade away a late first rounder. Obviously we have a few good young players in Willy and KP.

Things need to be more clear though. We should make a clear plan on whether we want to rebuild or keep going for building teams around an aging, declining (maybe not even an all-star selection anymore) Melo.

We've been snake bit lately. Last minute losses. Crazy ref decisions and situations. We play Philly (who then gets hot). We play Suns (who then beat Raptors)

I am sincerely hoping this team sticks together (even an "us against the world" culture) and that we turn things around. We need more consistency, tighter D especially starting games (seems like we're always yielding 30+ in the first)and perhaps a break or two here or there.

I don't see any trades coming for Melo. We just need to start thinking of him as (and using him as) a very talented offensive player better suited for the 4 spot; and not expecting him to be Lebron or any other superstar.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:The team has talent, but the worst place to be in the NBA is where the Knicks are with Melo. You are neither bad enough to be drafting higher up where you can get talent like Kristaps Porzingis, and open up massive capspace to sign young free agents. Or good enough to contend for a championship or be a good enough team that free agents can come to you with 1 max capspace position available. We neither are a player for the Durant or top free agents with Melo, because the team isn't good enough. Nor are we bad enough where we can position ourselves to draft someone who can pair Kristaps with.

I don't want to install a culture of tanking or losing for good, but 2-3 years in this spot is way better than 4-5 years of where we have been with Melo. Thank god Phil Jackson didn't do what previous management did and that's trade away our picks. We will be drafting in the lottery this year and hopefully at least get a 8-10 year starter. Maybe not an all-star but someone good if we scout right and pick the right fit.

I hate where we are. I think we have enough talent to be in a top 5 team in the East, but because of having players that don't have the young fresh legs to defend AND run up at a high paced offense, the Knicks can not play enough defense to be a good team. It won't change.

Where I like what we have is that we have some trade chips. Melo possibly. O'Quinn's value is higher. Jennings, possibly Rose. Last year contracts maybe interest a playoff team looking to trade away a late first rounder. Obviously we have a few good young players in Willy and KP.

Things need to be more clear though. We should make a clear plan on whether we want to rebuild or keep going for building teams around an aging, declining (maybe not even an all-star selection anymore) Melo.

i think not have draft picks really hurt us too. I often wonder if melo would have waited to sign with us as a free agent if things would have been different. Maybe we use those assets to get chris paul

We could have received 1st round picks for Fields and Lin in 2012 if our GM had the foresight to know we wouldn't resign them. These are decisions that hurt us. We let go of 2 good young players, who at the time, were viewed highly in the league. Fields had great value as a up and coming role player after shooting 40% from 3 and being one of the best rebounding guards in the league as a rookie. Lin's value is self-explanatory. We replaced them with Kidd, Felton, Camby etc. We could have dealt them and received draft picks in return. To me, this was the biggest mishap in the Melo era. Letting go of young talent for nothing. The cupboard was bare after that.

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Too bad a positive thread here never gets any traction. If you don't post something really negative, it won't generate any conversation.

For what its worth, our core of KP, Willy, and this year's draft pick is the best we have had in forever. I would include Melo too, for now. Only place to go is up, for those who don't let the media get to them.

Im actually ok with this core and letting them figure it out. Just make the playoffs and KP stay healthy.
Willy is nice addition and I do like they are easing him in. The spaceing is good with what the knicks are doing when he is on the court, and he gets some nice transition points. That is not starter material stuff yet, and he has missed assignments in crunch time, which is ok for rookie to learn. Kuz is finding his shot and adjusting to the speed of the game. At 3mm, he is an improvement over Derrick Williams.

Rose is a tough fit as he was in Chicago. Half the season down the knicks problems are more apparent. But, He is physically doing well but I'd say that unless he develops a better shot I'd be very wary of paying him want he wants to be paid.

Some good stuff here, there is more to our big men than just Noah, who rebounds at a great level when he is on the floor. After him, Our bigs are not over paid and they are doing well. With Willy, we even have a prospect!!!!!!! Imagine such a thing!
Baker is a nice surprise but far from out of the woods regarding his future value. Im not sold, but that's ok. A work in progress.

The only disappointment is Jennings who's jump shot makes me want to throw up in my mouth half the time. Seemingly every shot is off balance.

Most fans reactions are like playing a driving video game. Too many strong movements or "over steer". "Dump players", "Dump Players"," use 2nd round picks as sweetners ", etc etc......

Nothing new. The expectation is "change will bring improvement". Sometimes change brings decline.
Losing suck, that we can all agree on!

Losing ha it's merits - it improves out lottery position in an amazing draft class in which we own our pick. That's a valuable reason to accept losing. When trying to build a future we can all be excited about, we need to stop pretending that we can win anything in the here and now, and instead focus on KP's window. Thus we ought to get the best draft position we can this off-season and hope we get a solid running mate for KP. Then in 2-3 years we can explore adding a Melo-like player to get us into contention.

The problem is this rut has shown the moment the game is close the Knicks will blow it or not be able to close. Regardless of strength of competition.

Nalod wrote:Phil is in NYC and not with Jeannie Buss.
Might he have met someone new? Or her?
Who knows.

Melo is here, wants to be here, and has not given up. This team does not look like it flew off the rails. Looks like a team that can't close.
I see Melo as an asset on the court, or as a trade chip. Would not cry if he left for youthier assets.
The man got his NTC. Its his reality and ours. All things considered, I think he has handled the Crush of NYC and its media very well. This is not a bad guy, just Lebron or Kobe like.

Knicks are 12th in salary. Portland really has to get better value for its money!!!
Detroit as well.
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/#hh-tab-team-payroll

Good poimts. Knicks have lost 7 games by 3 points or less. 1 game by 4. If not for a couple of misses and stops, we would be 27 and 18. That would be 3rd or 4th in conference. But the NY Knicks fans are in rebuild mode. The scene when KP was picked sums up what we are dealing with. But ofcourse no one on here was one of those crying babies.

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:The team has talent, but the worst place to be in the NBA is where the Knicks are with Melo. You are neither bad enough to be drafting higher up where you can get talent like Kristaps Porzingis, and open up massive capspace to sign young free agents. Or good enough to contend for a championship or be a good enough team that free agents can come to you with 1 max capspace position available. We neither are a player for the Durant or top free agents with Melo, because the team isn't good enough. Nor are we bad enough where we can position ourselves to draft someone who can pair Kristaps with.

I don't want to install a culture of tanking or losing for good, but 2-3 years in this spot is way better than 4-5 years of where we have been with Melo. Thank god Phil Jackson didn't do what previous management did and that's trade away our picks. We will be drafting in the lottery this year and hopefully at least get a 8-10 year starter. Maybe not an all-star but someone good if we scout right and pick the right fit.

I hate where we are. I think we have enough talent to be in a top 5 team in the East, but because of having players that don't have the young fresh legs to defend AND run up at a high paced offense, the Knicks can not play enough defense to be a good team. It won't change.

Where I like what we have is that we have some trade chips. Melo possibly. O'Quinn's value is higher. Jennings, possibly Rose. Last year contracts maybe interest a playoff team looking to trade away a late first rounder. Obviously we have a few good young players in Willy and KP.

Things need to be more clear though. We should make a clear plan on whether we want to rebuild or keep going for building teams around an aging, declining (maybe not even an all-star selection anymore) Melo.

i think not have draft picks really hurt us too. I often wonder if melo would have waited to sign with us as a free agent if things would have been different. Maybe we use those assets to get chris paul

We could have received 1st round picks for Fields and Lin in 2012 if our GM had the foresight to know we wouldn't resign them. These are decisions that hurt us. We let go of 2 good young players, who at the time, were viewed highly in the league. Fields had great value as a up and coming role player after shooting 40% from 3 and being one of the best rebounding guards in the league as a rookie. Lin's value is self-explanatory. We replaced them with Kidd, Felton, Camby etc. We could have dealt them and received draft picks in return. To me, this was the biggest mishap in the Melo era. Letting go of young talent for nothing. The cupboard was bare after that.

We also won a lot more games after those 2 departed. This team is talented, but that's half the battle, the chemistry and coaching staff are suspect.

Constantly run ISO plays for either Rose or Melo in the final seconds, these 2 morons, don't know the difference between a good shot and a better one.

I don't know how many times MJ would beat the knicks with a pass to a wide open role player, rather than take a tough shout..melo and rose always want to be the hero..you would think after so many 1 and 2 point loses, you would thinks the coaching staff would dedicate an entire practice on last 20 second plays.

the effort with the coaching staff is just as bad as the players..

Over the last 15+ years the Knicks are the second worst franchise in the NBA ahead of only Minnesota. We have had 9 coaches in 15 seasons. An owner that doesn't take ownership. A GM who speaks twice a season and has his buddy publish confidential meetings to the public about players we have moved. A coach who the players don't like.

We should be over the moon that finally we have a ****ing lottery pick that's going to be in the 9-12 range.

Listen, we all love KP he's our guy, the franchise, but we need to be careful with the kid. He attacks the rim and his body needs to hold up. It's a luxury to have a hometown guy, we have no doubt he's going to be a top 10 player in this league. Willy is a great piece and will be a good starter going forward.

But, Noah and Melo are locked in for three more years, there are no trading partners, which limits are ability to be aggressive in free agency.

The Bucks have more talent than we do, the Sixers are in a tremendous position if and when Simmons get's healthy, the raptors will be good for the next few years, etc.

For what it's worth we were 14-10 and it felt like we had accomplished something. That's where Knick basketball is