Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Does everyone really think this is phil talking?

no me... Phil might be an influencing what's said but, no, I don't think Phil is doing Rosen's job for him

Yeah this reminds me of when Donny Walsh traded for Melo, and everyone was convinced it was Dolan calling the shots. Very recently, Walsh spoke about that trade, unprompted, and said specifically he was the one that made that decision and gave specific reasons why. You would think that would convince people to change their mind on it, but i bet most of them still think Walsh is covering for Dolan for some reason. Knick fans love their conspiracy theories, that's for sure.

I would be interested in a link for that. Not that I don't believe you, I would like to read that.
It was long discussed that Dolan made the call over Walsh to the Denver owner.
I also think that Walsh is a stand up guy and took the GM's "creed" that you don't throw an owner under the bus. Kind of part of the job.
But I would like to read Walsh's own words. Perhaps we were all wrong all these years?

As for the current state of things, calling for phil's head does not solve the future. PHil leaving would not negate Melo's NTC nor change the value of our assets or our picks.

BTW, Mills is the GM and I suspect even if phil left, I doubt much would change.

I will have to hunt it down. I don't remember where it came from, but it was relatively recent.

Does anyone remember? There must be a link from this forum we can bump about it. I'm not really good at that sort of thing.

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Does everyone really think this is phil talking?

no me... Phil might be an influencing what's said but, no, I don't think Phil is doing Rosen's job for him

Yeah this reminds me of when Donny Walsh traded for Melo, and everyone was convinced it was Dolan calling the shots. Very recently, Walsh spoke about that trade, unprompted, and said specifically he was the one that made that decision and gave specific reasons why. You would think that would convince people to change their mind on it, but i bet most of them still think Walsh is covering for Dolan for some reason. Knick fans love their conspiracy theories, that's for sure.

I would be interested in a link for that. Not that I don't believe you, I would like to read that.
It was long discussed that Dolan made the call over Walsh to the Denver owner.
I also think that Walsh is a stand up guy and took the GM's "creed" that you don't throw an owner under the bus. Kind of part of the job.
But I would like to read Walsh's own words. Perhaps we were all wrong all these years?

As for the current state of things, calling for phil's head does not solve the future. PHil leaving would not negate Melo's NTC nor change the value of our assets or our picks.

BTW, Mills is the GM and I suspect even if phil left, I doubt much would change.

I will have to hunt it down. I don't remember where it came from, but it was relatively recent.

Does anyone remember? There must be a link from this forum we can bump about it. I'm not really good at that sort of thing.

I remember the article and was surprised. Don't have a link

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Does everyone really think this is phil talking?

no me... Phil might be an influencing what's said but, no, I don't think Phil is doing Rosen's job for him

Yeah this reminds me of when Donny Walsh traded for Melo, and everyone was convinced it was Dolan calling the shots. Very recently, Walsh spoke about that trade, unprompted, and said specifically he was the one that made that decision and gave specific reasons why. You would think that would convince people to change their mind on it, but i bet most of them still think Walsh is covering for Dolan for some reason. Knick fans love their conspiracy theories, that's for sure.

I would be interested in a link for that. Not that I don't believe you, I would like to read that.
It was long discussed that Dolan made the call over Walsh to the Denver owner.
I also think that Walsh is a stand up guy and took the GM's "creed" that you don't throw an owner under the bus. Kind of part of the job.
But I would like to read Walsh's own words. Perhaps we were all wrong all these years?

As for the current state of things, calling for phil's head does not solve the future. PHil leaving would not negate Melo's NTC nor change the value of our assets or our picks.

BTW, Mills is the GM and I suspect even if phil left, I doubt much would change.

I will have to hunt it down. I don't remember where it came from, but it was relatively recent.

Does anyone remember? There must be a link from this forum we can bump about it. I'm not really good at that sort of thing.

I remember the article and was surprised. Don't have a link

Yeah we will have to track it down. It was very surprising, i agree, mainly because it was unprompted and completely after the fact.

i don't have the link but remember it too. Also i don't think it was a bad decision.

As some other threads are currently saying (and as I've said before -- not unique to me by no means) when there's a salary cap it's to your team's advantage to be a value shopper to try and get as much talent as you can on your fixed budget. In theory, you might be able to squeeze more value than other teams out of mid-tier vets, but it's foolish to think you'll get home runs there. The real values come either from drafting smart (where they're on rookie deals and can play much better than their contracts) or superstars who outperform their max contracts. You have to go back a long time (the Pistons ?? and depending on your view of Isiah) to see a team that has won without an superstar elite player. It's not simply that they're superstars (e.g., Lebron, Duncan/Leonard, MJ etc)it's that they're getting a lot more value from those players than they're paying them; they're getting more talent for the same money. So under that line of logic I thought it was smart way back when to try and get an elite superstar. Hasn't worked out fully as plan but i thought the plan made sense and wasn't simply starphuch or whatever people are calling that. (It is a winning strategy just no guarantees)

wargames wrote:

jrodmc wrote:His reasons for Melo to leave don't even reach the intelligence level of the haters on this board:

1) unnamed sources say... this is akin to saying nothing.
2) Melo is numb and not playing for anyone other than people on the team and in the lockerroom. Is he supposed to play for the GM and the President, I forget?
3) The Media Pressure. He's worried about Melo's health. So nice.
4) He's worried about Melo's age. Nice again.
5) Hey, the Knicks suck again. Melo's never been through that before, right? Hey old guy, go now, hurry!
6) Melo, I really really really want you to win a chip. Somewhere else. Anywhere else. Maybe China!
7) Melo is dynamic scorer, but is too slow to play SF, but too fragile to play PF. But he doesn't post up enough. But he takes too many jumpers. Or something. Maybe he could convert to playing free safety for the Jets...
8) Melo's fat and slow, by the way. We love saying this. Phil laughs so hard the seeds come through his nose.
9) Did I already mention the Pressure?
10) Or that the Knicks really suck right now? Phil is 70-something now. He repeats himself alot.

You can tell Charlie didn't get all this from Phil because the word triangle wasn't mentioned and Phil only makes at most, three sides to an argument. So there.

2) he's supposed to play to win.....

The whole article basically made it clear Melo didn't care about winning he just a wants to be in NY because he likes it here and loves the attention of being a star player in NY. As a human being I am fine with that. As a Knick fan I want him gone ASAP just because we need to do a rebuild and he could bring in picks. If he stays the Knicks will suck, if he leaves the Knicks will suck but with more draft picks/youth.

That's the whole article. While both choices are bleak the latter gives us a better chance to improve quickest to be ready to compete on KP's timeline

2) And you know he's just trying to knock down an open three because he actually is playing to lose, right? You scan his neurons every day and all that comes back is "Please lose this game, Please miss shots that matter, Please lose this game".

The whole article says nothing other than crap guessing. Melo must want to win, but only when it means he'd be somewhere else. Do you see how that's repeated ad nauseum?

How about noticing the bruising he takes night in and night out with no calls? Why does he continue to do that? Why does he ever bother playing brother ball with Kuz? Because these are facts that would negate negativity, and we can't have that in ESPN-HATE-THYSELF-NYC-AT-ALL-COSTS Knick fanland.

As a Knick fan I've noticed that Phil has already rebuilt the entire team twice. I also notice that the only thing that's not new and shiny is Melo, so obviously that means we cant' win with Melo. Even though we have. But enough about that.

Please continue hawking goobers down the Hinkie path, no matter what the Sixers do. That looks like so much fun.

crzymdups wrote:What Phil is doing here via Rosen is pretty damn cowardly.

Here's the article-

http://www.fanragsports.com/nba/knicks/rosen-carmelo-anthony-stay-leave-knicks/

Of course the most intriguing issue surrounding the Knicks these days is the future of Carmelo Anthony.

After unequivocally insisting that he wants to stay in New York, he has recently recanted, saying he would waive his no-trade clause if the Knicks really wanted him gone.

Here’s a pro-and-con, devil’s advocate summary of the reasons — from the respective points of view of both Melo and the Knicks — why both of these options make sense.

WHY MELO SHOULD STAY

He and his wife La La love living in New York. This is totally understandable given the constant, and wide, variety of cultural attractions, media connections and brand-amplifying possibilities available in the Big Apple. Especially for a national celebrity with money to burn.
This is his sixth season living and working in the city where he was born and mostly raised, so he feels incredibly comfortable there.
Melo is still a dynamic go-to scorer. Although he doesn’t post up as much as he used to he can always create a good shot on his often spectacular and resourceful one-on-one moves.
He’s the highly recognizable face of the franchise.
Melo sincerely wants to be “The Man,” and be a prime mover in the team’s return to glory.
The Knicks have a locker room full of good people who support him through these troubled times.
Madison Square Garden is always filled to the rafters with enthusiastic fans who are eagerly waiting for good things to happen.

WHY MELO SHOULD LEAVE

Many published reports claim that several unnamed individuals in the team’s front office want him traded.
When Melo says that he’s “numb” to Phil Jackson, and upon hearing these reports, he says that he’s only playing for his teammates. This is an indication of just how isolated he feels.
The New York media has always been cynical and probing, looking to exacerbate even the slightest hint of discontent in any of the local teams. And they all have their sights set on everything Melo does and says. The pressure, then, has to be distracting and exhausting.
He’ll be 33 in May and should be understandably wary of spending what’s left of his peak years on a team that needs to commit to a rebuilding process.
With the Knicks in such disarray, there doesn’t seem much of an attractive future for him in New York.
It’s likewise understandable that he’d like to play for a team that’s a legitimate championship contender.
Lately, he’s been playing more and more time at the power forward position. With his diminished bounce, this is a good fit. However, having to bang with bigger stronger opponents will accelerate the breaking down of his already somewhat vulnerable body.
He was publicly chastised by Jackson for holding the ball too long before making his move. This tendency breaks down any semblance of a quick-footed, ball-sharing offense. As such, Melo’s adhesive hands greatly inhibit the development of the team’s young players.
His poor defense also takes its toll.
Melo’s lack of late-game production in the team’s most recent painful defeats has to frustrate him to the max.
As the losses pile up, many of the fans and the media place the blame squarely on him. As Walt Frazier recently said, the same thing happened to him and Willis Reed whenever the Knicks struggled. But this kind of blame game is routine in New York. It’s why New York is the best place to win and the worst place to lose.
At this stage in his career, Melo might thrive as being the second or even third option for a championship-caliber team.
How much longer can he stand being in the center of so much drama?
Far from making any suggestions, I’m merely trying to enumerate why whatever happens will likely happen.

And I should re-state for the record that these are my ideas, my opinions and have nothing to do with whatever Phil Jackson might or might not be thinking. I have NEVER acted as a mouthpiece for Jackson, and that remains the case here.

Regardless of the ethics involving mouthpiece for Phil, there's nothing in the article that isn't accurate. It's a solid analysis of Melo's options, and the reasons why he'd go either way.

I hope he chooses the latter, since it's clear that KP's window (and this the NYK's) lies well outside of Melo's remaining career arc.

BRIGGS wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

wargames wrote:

jrodmc wrote:His reasons for Melo to leave don't even reach the intelligence level of the haters on this board:

1) unnamed sources say... this is akin to saying nothing.
2) Melo is numb and not playing for anyone other than people on the team and in the lockerroom. Is he supposed to play for the GM and the President, I forget?
3) The Media Pressure. He's worried about Melo's health. So nice.
4) He's worried about Melo's age. Nice again.
5) Hey, the Knicks suck again. Melo's never been through that before, right? Hey old guy, go now, hurry!
6) Melo, I really really really want you to win a chip. Somewhere else. Anywhere else. Maybe China!
7) Melo is dynamic scorer, but is too slow to play SF, but too fragile to play PF. But he doesn't post up enough. But he takes too many jumpers. Or something. Maybe he could convert to playing free safety for the Jets...
8) Melo's fat and slow, by the way. We love saying this. Phil laughs so hard the seeds come through his nose.
9) Did I already mention the Pressure?
10) Or that the Knicks really suck right now? Phil is 70-something now. He repeats himself alot.

You can tell Charlie didn't get all this from Phil because the word triangle wasn't mentioned and Phil only makes at most, three sides to an argument. So there.

2) he's supposed to play to win.....

The whole article basically made it clear Melo didn't care about winning he just a wants to be in NY because he likes it here and loves the attention of being a star player in NY. As a human being I am fine with that. As a Knick fan I want him gone ASAP just because we need to do a rebuild and he could bring in picks. If he stays the Knicks will suck, if he leaves the Knicks will suck but with more draft picks/youth.

That's the whole article. While both choices are bleak the latter gives us a better chance to improve quickest to be ready to compete on KP's timeline

2) And you know he's just trying to knock down an open three because he actually is playing to lose, right? You scan his neurons every day and all that comes back is "Please lose this game, Please miss shots that matter, Please lose this game".

The whole article says nothing other than crap guessing. Melo must want to win, but only when it means he'd be somewhere else. Do you see how that's repeated ad nauseum?

How about noticing the bruising he takes night in and night out with no calls? Why does he continue to do that? Why does he ever bother playing brother ball with Kuz? Because these are facts that would negate negativity, and we can't have that in ESPN-HATE-THYSELF-NYC-AT-ALL-COSTS Knick fanland.

As a Knick fan I've noticed that Phil has already rebuilt the entire team twice. I also notice that the only thing that's not new and shiny is Melo, so obviously that means we cant' win with Melo. Even though we have. But enough about that.

Please continue hawking goobers down the Hinkie path, no matter what the Sixers do. That looks like so much fun.

Jr there comes a point where cutting ties to help the team makes sense. He should still be able to bring back a good asset tally. You said being the Sixers wouldn't be fun but all of these good teams got their players via high draft pick-- so did the Knicks 32 years ago. What's the difference in the melo Knicks and the 76 era anyway? They are just as good as us they beat us and now they will pass is unless we strategize a plan to re make part of this team. 15 years we spent so much money and we won 1 playoff series. Roi is worst in sports history -- time to change starting with getting younger

Exactly.

jrodmc wrote:

wargames wrote:

jrodmc wrote:His reasons for Melo to leave don't even reach the intelligence level of the haters on this board:

1) unnamed sources say... this is akin to saying nothing.
2) Melo is numb and not playing for anyone other than people on the team and in the lockerroom. Is he supposed to play for the GM and the President, I forget?
3) The Media Pressure. He's worried about Melo's health. So nice.
4) He's worried about Melo's age. Nice again.
5) Hey, the Knicks suck again. Melo's never been through that before, right? Hey old guy, go now, hurry!
6) Melo, I really really really want you to win a chip. Somewhere else. Anywhere else. Maybe China!
7) Melo is dynamic scorer, but is too slow to play SF, but too fragile to play PF. But he doesn't post up enough. But he takes too many jumpers. Or something. Maybe he could convert to playing free safety for the Jets...
8) Melo's fat and slow, by the way. We love saying this. Phil laughs so hard the seeds come through his nose.
9) Did I already mention the Pressure?
10) Or that the Knicks really suck right now? Phil is 70-something now. He repeats himself alot.

You can tell Charlie didn't get all this from Phil because the word triangle wasn't mentioned and Phil only makes at most, three sides to an argument. So there.

2) he's supposed to play to win.....

The whole article basically made it clear Melo didn't care about winning he just a wants to be in NY because he likes it here and loves the attention of being a star player in NY. As a human being I am fine with that. As a Knick fan I want him gone ASAP just because we need to do a rebuild and he could bring in picks. If he stays the Knicks will suck, if he leaves the Knicks will suck but with more draft picks/youth.

That's the whole article. While both choices are bleak the latter gives us a better chance to improve quickest to be ready to compete on KP's timeline

2) And you know he's just "Please lose this game, Please miss shots that matter, Please lose this game".
trying to knock down an open three because he actually is playing to lose, right? You scan his neurons every day and all that comes back is
The whole article says nothing other than crap guessing. Melo must want to win, but only when it means he'd be somewhere else. Do you see how that's repeated ad nauseum?

How about noticing the bruising he takes night in and night out with no calls? Why does he continue to do that? Why does he ever bother playing brother ball with Kuz? Because these are facts that would negate negativity, and we can't have that in ESPN-HATE-THYSELF-NYC-AT-ALL-COSTS Knick fanland.

As a Knick fan I've noticed that Phil has already rebuilt the entire team twice. I also notice that the only thing that's not new and shiny is Melo, so obviously that means we cant' win with Melo. Even though we have. But enough about that.

Please continue hawking goobers down the Hinkie path, no matter what the Sixers do. That looks like so much fun.

Don't know if you noticed but he clearly threw the towel in on Saturday. Shot 5 for 6 from 3. Only miss was the game winner. Which he made go around the rim and out, just to piss us off. Scored 31 on just 17 shots, chucker. Did not get the ball last 3 minutes except for last 6 seconds, clearly hiding to lose. And had nice assists when he brought ball up, poser. Fed KP and told him to take the shot in 3rd... clearly doesn't want to win. Think we trade him for a shot to pick up guys like Jerian Grant, Thon Maker, Domantis Sabonis, Taurean Prince, Georgios Papagiannis, Denzel Valentine, Noah Vonleh, Elfrid Payton, TJ Warren, Jusuf Nurkic, Nerlens Noel, Caldwell Pope, Kelly Olynyk, Shane Larkin. Oh how I get goose bumps just thinking about it. Or dare I dream of getting a lottery pick like Brandon Ingram, Mario Henzonga, Okafor, Willy Stein, Aaron Gordon, Dante Exum, Anthony Bennet, Cody Zeller, Alex Len. Nahh better not over shoot and get disappointed.

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

wargames wrote:

jrodmc wrote:His reasons for Melo to leave don't even reach the intelligence level of the haters on this board:

1) unnamed sources say... this is akin to saying nothing.
2) Melo is numb and not playing for anyone other than people on the team and in the lockerroom. Is he supposed to play for the GM and the President, I forget?
3) The Media Pressure. He's worried about Melo's health. So nice.
4) He's worried about Melo's age. Nice again.
5) Hey, the Knicks suck again. Melo's never been through that before, right? Hey old guy, go now, hurry!
6) Melo, I really really really want you to win a chip. Somewhere else. Anywhere else. Maybe China!
7) Melo is dynamic scorer, but is too slow to play SF, but too fragile to play PF. But he doesn't post up enough. But he takes too many jumpers. Or something. Maybe he could convert to playing free safety for the Jets...
8) Melo's fat and slow, by the way. We love saying this. Phil laughs so hard the seeds come through his nose.
9) Did I already mention the Pressure?
10) Or that the Knicks really suck right now? Phil is 70-something now. He repeats himself alot.

You can tell Charlie didn't get all this from Phil because the word triangle wasn't mentioned and Phil only makes at most, three sides to an argument. So there.

2) he's supposed to play to win.....

The whole article basically made it clear Melo didn't care about winning he just a wants to be in NY because he likes it here and loves the attention of being a star player in NY. As a human being I am fine with that. As a Knick fan I want him gone ASAP just because we need to do a rebuild and he could bring in picks. If he stays the Knicks will suck, if he leaves the Knicks will suck but with more draft picks/youth.

That's the whole article. While both choices are bleak the latter gives us a better chance to improve quickest to be ready to compete on KP's timeline

2) And you know he's just trying to knock down an open three because he actually is playing to lose, right? You scan his neurons every day and all that comes back is "Please lose this game, Please miss shots that matter, Please lose this game".

The whole article says nothing other than crap guessing. Melo must want to win, but only when it means he'd be somewhere else. Do you see how that's repeated ad nauseum?

How about noticing the bruising he takes night in and night out with no calls? Why does he continue to do that? Why does he ever bother playing brother ball with Kuz? Because these are facts that would negate negativity, and we can't have that in ESPN-HATE-THYSELF-NYC-AT-ALL-COSTS Knick fanland.

As a Knick fan I've noticed that Phil has already rebuilt the entire team twice. I also notice that the only thing that's not new and shiny is Melo, so obviously that means we cant' win with Melo. Even though we have. But enough about that.

Please continue hawking goobers down the Hinkie path, no matter what the Sixers do. That looks like so much fun.

Jr there comes a point where cutting ties to help the team makes sense. He should still be able to bring back a good asset tally. You said being the Sixers wouldn't be fun but all of these good teams got their players via high draft pick-- so did the Knicks 32 years ago. What's the difference in the melo Knicks and the 76 era anyway? They are just as good as us they beat us and now they will pass is unless we strategize a plan to re make part of this team. 15 years we spent so much money and we won 1 playoff series. Roi is worst in sports history -- time to change starting with getting younger

You make a reasonable point. But your excluding one thing...When we surrounded him with decent array of players to fit roles and some solid vets, then got out of his way and fed him the ball, we won 54 games. When we gave him a line up consisting of NBA rejects and forced him to go with the glorious TRIANGLE, we have done what? Your reasonable but now time to be objective.

Chandler wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

wargames wrote:

jrodmc wrote:His reasons for Melo to leave don't even reach the intelligence level of the haters on this board:

1) unnamed sources say... this is akin to saying nothing.
2) Melo is numb and not playing for anyone other than people on the team and in the lockerroom. Is he supposed to play for the GM and the President, I forget?
3) The Media Pressure. He's worried about Melo's health. So nice.
4) He's worried about Melo's age. Nice again.
5) Hey, the Knicks suck again. Melo's never been through that before, right? Hey old guy, go now, hurry!
6) Melo, I really really really want you to win a chip. Somewhere else. Anywhere else. Maybe China!
7) Melo is dynamic scorer, but is too slow to play SF, but too fragile to play PF. But he doesn't post up enough. But he takes too many jumpers. Or something. Maybe he could convert to playing free safety for the Jets...
8) Melo's fat and slow, by the way. We love saying this. Phil laughs so hard the seeds come through his nose.
9) Did I already mention the Pressure?
10) Or that the Knicks really suck right now? Phil is 70-something now. He repeats himself alot.

You can tell Charlie didn't get all this from Phil because the word triangle wasn't mentioned and Phil only makes at most, three sides to an argument. So there.

2) he's supposed to play to win.....

The whole article basically made it clear Melo didn't care about winning he just a wants to be in NY because he likes it here and loves the attention of being a star player in NY. As a human being I am fine with that. As a Knick fan I want him gone ASAP just because we need to do a rebuild and he could bring in picks. If he stays the Knicks will suck, if he leaves the Knicks will suck but with more draft picks/youth.

That's the whole article. While both choices are bleak the latter gives us a better chance to improve quickest to be ready to compete on KP's timeline

2) And you know he's just trying to knock down an open three because he actually is playing to lose, right? You scan his neurons every day and all that comes back is "Please lose this game, Please miss shots that matter, Please lose this game".

The whole article says nothing other than crap guessing. Melo must want to win, but only when it means he'd be somewhere else. Do you see how that's repeated ad nauseum?

How about noticing the bruising he takes night in and night out with no calls? Why does he continue to do that? Why does he ever bother playing brother ball with Kuz? Because these are facts that would negate negativity, and we can't have that in ESPN-HATE-THYSELF-NYC-AT-ALL-COSTS Knick fanland.

As a Knick fan I've noticed that Phil has already rebuilt the entire team twice. I also notice that the only thing that's not new and shiny is Melo, so obviously that means we cant' win with Melo. Even though we have. But enough about that.

Please continue hawking goobers down the Hinkie path, no matter what the Sixers do. That looks like so much fun.

Jr there comes a point where cutting ties to help the team makes sense. He should still be able to bring back a good asset tally. You said being the Sixers wouldn't be fun but all of these good teams got their players via high draft pick-- so did the Knicks 32 years ago. What's the difference in the melo Knicks and the 76 era anyway? They are just as good as us they beat us and now they will pass is unless we strategize a plan to re make part of this team. 15 years we spent so much money and we won 1 playoff series. Roi is worst in sports history -- time to change starting with getting younger

You make a reasonable point. But your excluding one thing...When we surrounded him with decent array of players to fit roles and some solid vets, then got out of his way and fed him the ball, we won 54 games. When we gave him a line up consisting of NBA rejects and forced him to go with the glorious TRIANGLE, we have done what? Your reasonable but now time to be objective.

and when Jason Kidd was making great decisions on the court!

Who do you surround him with now? And one can make the argument that Phil attempted that approach with Rose, Noah, Jennings and Lee. And while it's fair to criticize their individual and collective performances (if you're inclined) all you offer are vague suggestions that we would have been better to surround an aging (super)star with some others, unnamed role players to repeat a performance (2d round exit) when Melo was better. Why don't you illuminate us all and say what the roster would have been if you were supreme ruler; you'll even have the benefit of hindsight

Celts traded Pierce and KG even though they won a chip with them (and honestly should have knocked Heat out the next season but for bad reffing in game 6) to stockpile assets. We won't repeat that haul but it is a perfectly legitimate strategy to consider. He may be worth more to other teams than he is to us at present; and this doesn't have to be taken as a knock against Melo -- it could just be the reality. For example, i don't know how such a trade would even be possible but if i were the Cavs and looking at Golden State I might think more scoring could come in handy in the matchup. Personally I don't see this happening and don't see us getting max back; instead we have t the best we can with him, and for me the priority should be future-focused.

I'll iluminate you as the guy thats trying to **** on a 54 win season, and Melos year, by saying we didnt do anything except get within one game of the conference finals. And when was the last time, prior to Melo, we got that close? I know your not saying there was an effort to surround him with players in 2104 and 2015? And yes Phil has tried. Pretty decent effort except for a Kidd like PG and a Chandler like Center. Which is a center who plays good defense but not invisible on offense. But what I love about your comment is that your saying Melo, only All Star that wants to be here, does not give us a better chance to do the same. How many games have we lost by 3 or less? What would our record be if we won those? Not exactly blow up the roster/**** on the superstar type performances. Add the amount of injuries we have had. New team. But yeah, I get it, **** on the guy who has been our best player. I know that hurts for many on here. As for vague, I have said, since signing, Noah is our biggest problem/mistake! He puts KP and Melo out of position. Liability on offense, cant guard stretch offenses. And Whats our record without him? Is that vague? Do agree that it was tough getting a good point guard this past off season. Like Rose but not as PG.