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Rose/Melo and how it affects KP
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nyknickzingis
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1/22/2017  7:51 AM
So KP makes 5 straight shots in the third quarter.
Barely shoots or get set up rest of the way

Rose and Melo are very good scorers but they don't make teammates better or find players in flow.

In my opinion we need to choose between Melo and Rose and build the team around Willy, KP, Kuz or Melo, Lee/Holiday and Rose or (A PG we trade Rose for)

I think KP is not ready to be the alpha of the team, but he absolutely should be the prioritized number 2 option.

Rose is younger at 28 looks in his athletic prime. But not a great teammate and more of a shooting guard.
Melo is older at 33, looks in physical decline but when playing point forward plays well with KP and a good teammate. Loyal.

One thing is for sure.

Melo, Rose and KP just don't work as a big 3. Individually they all put nice numbers but the flow just isn't there.

We are adding a lottery pick this summer. We have Willy at the 5, KP at 4, Kuz at 3. Should re-sign Holiday for coming in as a small quick 3 or a 2. The question is who is better fit long term Melo or Rose? Believe it or not I think we should keep one. We need one star to pair with KP.

AUTOADVERT
yellowboy90
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1/22/2017  8:56 AM
Are they stopping KP from getting a rebound? Also, why did he not get shots to start the 4th when Rose and Melo was off the floor? Why isn't JH making him the focal point when he is running with the bench or signal to his pg to go back to KP when he is with the starters.

Neither Rose or Melo is a star but if you keep one you keep Melo because you do not give a huge contract to Rose at all. I could see if he was showing promise as a passer but he is not so he has to go.

nixluva
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1/22/2017  9:50 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:Are they stopping KP from getting a rebound? Also, why did he not get shots to start the 4th when Rose and Melo was off the floor? Why isn't JH making him the focal point when he is running with the bench or signal to his pg to go back to KP when he is with the starters.

Neither Rose or Melo is a star but if you keep one you keep Melo because you do not give a huge contract to Rose at all. I could see if he was showing promise as a passer but he is not so he has to go.

You sound a bit bitter towards KP! Is he supposed to be perfect in year 2 at 21??? The point isn't whether KP is a finished product it's about how to best develop him into the best player he can be. So far Rose and Melo have not done enough to help KP succeed. Even BJ has fallen off his pretty good PG play from earlier in the season.

Jeff came into the season saying he wanted to highlight KP but as the problems with the team have mounted, his focus on KP has slipped. BJ used to get KP GREAT looks earlier in the season which only proves the big get should be a passing PG.

BRIGGS
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1/22/2017  10:02 AM
I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

RIP Crushalot😞
newyorker4ever
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1/22/2017  10:04 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:So KP makes 5 straight shots in the third quarter.
Barely shoots or get set up rest of the way

Rose and Melo are very good scorers but they don't make teammates better or find players in flow.

In my opinion we need to choose between Melo and Rose and build the team around Willy, KP, Kuz or Melo, Lee/Holiday and Rose or (A PG we trade Rose for)

I think KP is not ready to be the alpha of the team, but he absolutely should be the prioritized number 2 option.

Rose is younger at 28 looks in his athletic prime. But not a great teammate and more of a shooting guard.
Melo is older at 33, looks in physical decline but when playing point forward plays well with KP and a good teammate. Loyal.

One thing is for sure.

Melo, Rose and KP just don't work as a big 3. Individually they all put nice numbers but the flow just isn't there.

We are adding a lottery pick this summer. We have Willy at the 5, KP at 4, Kuz at 3. Should re-sign Holiday for coming in as a small quick 3 or a 2. The question is who is better fit long term Melo or Rose? Believe it or not I think we should keep one. We need one star to pair with KP.

They're just fine offensively and it's on the defense which we always talk about Melo and even Rose's defense but i see many times that KP looks lost on the floor defensively but of course he will get his blocks but i think he had 1 rebound last night and played a good amount of center and that can't happen. They all leave their guys open behind the 3 point line cause teams know if they drive to the basket our guys all come in to help on the guy with the ball and leave their guy wide open behind the line. I guarantee you every single team goes into playing us knowing that how to get guys wide open behind the 3 line on us cause it's just too easy. Our problem is still defense and will never be scoring the ball. Whatever we do with this team all depends on what was really said between Melo and Phil in that meeting which nobody really knows even though our dumb azz writers came out with false article and tweets saying they knew. If Melo is leaving then Phil needs to decide if he's gonna get rid of Rose as well and rebuild or if he's gonna try to keep Rose but that will be a max or near max contract and i don't think Phil does that. I think we're stuck with what we have until the offseason but they might try to make some kind of trade for a defensive guy just to give it a try but i don't think we see much until the decision on Melo comes down which i think will be in the offseason......LOTTERY PICK HERE WE COME.

newyorker4ever
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1/22/2017  10:09 AM
BRIGGS wrote:I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

His inside game is so bad to. He has no kind of hookshot or under the basket play at all. All he'll do is start a drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper. KP is in no way ready to take over a team and once we're out of the playoff picture they should make him more of a focal point of the offense especially if the plan is to trade Melo.

BRIGGS
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1/22/2017  10:16 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

His inside game is so bad to. He has no kind of hookshot or under the basket play at all. All he'll do is start a drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper. KP is in no way ready to take over a team and once we're out of the playoff picture they should make him more of a focal point of the offense especially if the plan is to trade Melo.

This offseason the Knicks need to pay Kevin Mchale to sit down with him and talk to him about his game. then he needs about a month practicing with him. He does not play a good brand of basketball---he could be great but he has to relearn facets of the game.

RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
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1/22/2017  10:26 AM
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

His inside game is so bad to. He has no kind of hookshot or under the basket play at all. All he'll do is start a drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper. KP is in no way ready to take over a team and once we're out of the playoff picture they should make him more of a focal point of the offense especially if the plan is to trade Melo.

I think KP would score at a very efficient clip if he got more help from his teammates!!! PG in particular should be a big help to getting KP the ball in better position and in rhythm. When we got some drive and kick or other ball movement it gave KP great looks!!! Setting more screens for KP would help.

KP needs a legit big man coach to teach him how to set great screens and either Pop or Roll. Teach him how to post or face up effectively.

Vmart
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1/22/2017  10:31 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

His inside game is so bad to. He has no kind of hookshot or under the basket play at all. All he'll do is start a drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper. KP is in no way ready to take over a team and once we're out of the playoff picture they should make him more of a focal point of the offense especially if the plan is to trade Melo.

This offseason the Knicks need to pay Kevin Mchale to sit down with him and talk to him about his game. then he needs about a month practicing with him. He does not play a good brand of basketball---he could be great but he has to relearn facets of the game.

He is getting a lot of Melo exposure. Which I think isn't good for him. The factor of inefficiency is rubbing off on him. I'll say it again there is no way a 7'3 player should be shooting below 50% no way yet KP is doing it. This is scary, this absolutely not a good sign.

HofstraBBall
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1/22/2017  10:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/22/2017  10:45 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:So KP makes 5 straight shots in the third quarter.
Barely shoots or get set up rest of the way

Rose and Melo are very good scorers but they don't make teammates better or find players in flow.

In my opinion we need to choose between Melo and Rose and build the team around Willy, KP, Kuz or Melo, Lee/Holiday and Rose or (A PG we trade Rose for)

I think KP is not ready to be the alpha of the team, but he absolutely should be the prioritized number 2 option.

Rose is younger at 28 looks in his athletic prime. But not a great teammate and more of a shooting guard.
Melo is older at 33, looks in physical decline but when playing point forward plays well with KP and a good teammate. Loyal.

One thing is for sure.

Melo, Rose and KP just don't work as a big 3. Individually they all put nice numbers but the flow just isn't there.

We are adding a lottery pick this summer. We have Willy at the 5, KP at 4, Kuz at 3. Should re-sign Holiday for coming in as a small quick 3 or a 2. The question is who is better fit long term Melo or Rose? Believe it or not I think we should keep one. We need one star to pair with KP.

How many points did KP score in first half withiut Melo and Rose on the floor? With? Is that because we did not get him the ball? How many more shots did Melo take than KP? 4!? You may have a point with Rose with 26 shots. And agree there could be more off the ball plays for KP, specially down the stretch. But you can say that for any player. Sometimes the good players just have to take it upon themselves to take over.

But here is the problem with your assertion. Lets say we get rid of Rose and Melo and get say a guy like CP3 (Great chance of that happening. See THJ and Grant try), what will KP's challenge be? He still has trouble creating his own shot like Melo or Rose. He does not dive to basket on PnR. He does not have a post up game. He mostly is comfortable hovering the 3pt. line. So what do you think will happen when he is placed on the floor with guys of a lesser caliber/threat than Rose or Melo? Clue, watch yesterdays game and others, when he was on the floor without them. Can he handle and create when defenses are focusing on doubling him forcing others to beat them? No one sees the complexity of trying to score when teams focus on you. Let alone take over a game/dominate. ie. Melo.

Its one thing to hope that he is ready for the next level and carry a team and face the full focus of a defense. But from what we have seen, we cant say that is guaranteed. Ofcourse he still might be but to think he can at 21 YEARS OLD is pretty aggressive. I do agree that they may not work as big 3. Was excited to have Rose, a quick former MVP and upgrade but just dont think we can win without a true PG with a good outside shot. Problem is, they are hard to find and are quite expensive. (Conley). Disagree that KUZ is a starter in this league, right now. Has too many holes on defense. Also, sometimes a bit of tunnel vision on offense.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
StarksEwing1
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1/22/2017  10:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/22/2017  10:55 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:So KP makes 5 straight shots in the third quarter.
Barely shoots or get set up rest of the way

Rose and Melo are very good scorers but they don't make teammates better or find players in flow.

In my opinion we need to choose between Melo and Rose and build the team around Willy, KP, Kuz or Melo, Lee/Holiday and Rose or (A PG we trade Rose for)

I think KP is not ready to be the alpha of the team, but he absolutely should be the prioritized number 2 option.

Rose is younger at 28 looks in his athletic prime. But not a great teammate and more of a shooting guard.
Melo is older at 33, looks in physical decline but when playing point forward plays well with KP and a good teammate. Loyal.

One thing is for sure.

Melo, Rose and KP just don't work as a big 3. Individually they all put nice numbers but the flow just isn't there.

We are adding a lottery pick this summer. We have Willy at the 5, KP at 4, Kuz at 3. Should re-sign Holiday for coming in as a small quick 3 or a 2. The question is who is better fit long term Melo or Rose? Believe it or not I think we should keep one. We need one star to pair with KP.

How many points did KP score in first half withiut Melo and Rose on the floor? With? Is that because we did not get him the ball? How many more shots did Melo take than KP? 4!? You may have a point with Rose with 26 shots. And agree there could be more off the ball plays for KP, specially down the stretch. But you can say that for any player. Sometimes the good players just have to take it upon themselves to take over.

But here is the problem with your assertion. Lets say we get rid of Rose and Melo and get say a guy like CP3 (Great chance of that happening. See THJ and Grant try), what will KP's challenge be? He still has trouble creating his own shot like Melo or Rose. He does not dive to basket on PnR. He does not have a post up game. He mostly is comfortable hovering the 3pt. line. So what do you think will happen when he is placed on the floor with guys of a lesser caliber/threat than Rose or Melo? Clue, watch yesterdays game and others, when he was on the floor without them. Can he handle and create when defenses are focusing on doubling him forcing others to beat them? No one sees the complexity of trying to score when teams focus on you. Let alone take over a game/dominate. ie. Melo.

Its one thing to hope that he is ready for the next level and carry a team and face the full focus of a defense. But from what we have seen, we cant say that is guaranteed. Ofcourse he still might be but to think he can at 21 YEARS OLD is pretty aggressive. I do agree that they may not work as big 3. Was excited to have Rose, a quick former MVP and upgrade but just dont think we can win without a true PG with a good outside shot. Problem is, they are hard to find and are quite expensive. (Conley). Disagree that KUZ is a starter in this league, right now. Has too many holes on defense. Also, sometimes a bit of tunnel vision on offense.

You make some good points. I think we have a special talent in..KP so i dont think we have to worry about his future. However you are right he is still very young and hasnt reached his full potential yet. I still feel we dont run enough plays for him though. We definetly need traditional point guard for BOTH KP and melo. I appreciate what rose does but he just doesnt fit as a point guard
yellowboy90
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1/22/2017  1:05 PM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Are they stopping KP from getting a rebound? Also, why did he not get shots to start the 4th when Rose and Melo was off the floor? Why isn't JH making him the focal point when he is running with the bench or signal to his pg to go back to KP when he is with the starters.

Neither Rose or Melo is a star but if you keep one you keep Melo because you do not give a huge contract to Rose at all. I could see if he was showing promise as a passer but he is not so he has to go.

You sound a bit bitter towards KP! Is he supposed to be perfect in year 2 at 21??? The point isn't whether KP is a finished product it's about how to best develop him into the best player he can be. So far Rose and Melo have not done enough to help KP succeed. Even BJ has fallen off his pretty good PG play from earlier in the season.

Jeff came into the season saying he wanted to highlight KP but as the problems with the team have mounted, his focus on KP has slipped. BJ used to get KP GREAT looks earlier in the season which only proves the big get should be a passing PG.

You sound like a lot of Knick fans who get upset when someone criticizes KP. He has flaws it is okay to point them out. It is also okay to point out that he needs to take ownership of his own shortcomings. He has things he needs to work on inside which hopefully will come as he matures and develops physically. IF KP is going to start to play the 5 more he needs to rebound, roll to the basket more, and stop committing stupid fouls.


Do the knicks need to do a better job of building around him going forward sure but that would have been my goal since he was drafted.

newyorker4ever
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1/22/2017  2:13 PM
Vmart wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:I think Kp should watch how jovic plays and add some of it to his game

For such a high iq player he has 0 passing game. He takes way too many stupid shots he needs to NOT have less than 7-8 rebounds at a minimum and he needs to be more of a force on d. So many facets of the game including style of play. I'm not worried he didn't get as many shots as rose he needs to do more of the other stuff. He took a 3 late in the game that was mind boggling bad

His inside game is so bad to. He has no kind of hookshot or under the basket play at all. All he'll do is start a drive to the basket and pull up for a jumper. KP is in no way ready to take over a team and once we're out of the playoff picture they should make him more of a focal point of the offense especially if the plan is to trade Melo.

This offseason the Knicks need to pay Kevin Mchale to sit down with him and talk to him about his game. then he needs about a month practicing with him. He does not play a good brand of basketball---he could be great but he has to relearn facets of the game.

He is getting a lot of Melo exposure. Which I think isn't good for him. The factor of inefficiency is rubbing off on him. I'll say it again there is no way a 7'3 player should be shooting below 50% no way yet KP is doing it. This is scary, this absolutely not a good sign.

There's a big difference when you have a big man like KP taking the majority of his shots from 15 to 26 feet from the basket and most other big men that take their shots with either lay ups or 5 to 10 feet from the basket.

nixluva
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1/22/2017  2:19 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Are they stopping KP from getting a rebound? Also, why did he not get shots to start the 4th when Rose and Melo was off the floor? Why isn't JH making him the focal point when he is running with the bench or signal to his pg to go back to KP when he is with the starters.

Neither Rose or Melo is a star but if you keep one you keep Melo because you do not give a huge contract to Rose at all. I could see if he was showing promise as a passer but he is not so he has to go.

You sound a bit bitter towards KP! Is he supposed to be perfect in year 2 at 21??? The point isn't whether KP is a finished product it's about how to best develop him into the best player he can be. So far Rose and Melo have not done enough to help KP succeed. Even BJ has fallen off his pretty good PG play from earlier in the season.

Jeff came into the season saying he wanted to highlight KP but as the problems with the team have mounted, his focus on KP has slipped. BJ used to get KP GREAT looks earlier in the season which only proves the big get should be a passing PG.

You sound like a lot of Knick fans who get upset when someone criticizes KP. He has flaws it is okay to point them out. It is also okay to point out that he needs to take ownership of his own shortcomings. He has things he needs to work on inside which hopefully will come as he matures and develops physically. IF KP is going to start to play the 5 more he needs to rebound, roll to the basket more, and stop committing stupid fouls.


Do the knicks need to do a better job of building around him going forward sure but that would have been my goal since he was drafted.


It's not about me not criticizing KP or any other Knicks fan not critiquing him. It's about recognizing he's still young and developing and to try to keep things in perspective. He doesn't get the benefit of a PG partner that is looking to get him great looks. I guarantee you KP would be putting up great numbers with a more complimentary PG.

KP Readily admits he has a lot to learn and NO ONE has ever questioned his work ethic. He came back this year with improved skills and I expect that will continue.

CrushAlot
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1/22/2017  2:22 PM
Shot charts for KP this year and last year.
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2016&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=204001
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2015&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=204001
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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1/22/2017  2:33 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Shot charts for KP this year and last year.
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2016&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=204001
http://nbasavant.com/player.php?ddlYear=2015&ddlShotMade=&ddlTeamDefense=&player_id=204001

Thx for posting this!!! As I said it's nice to keep things in perspective when talking about KP. We don't even focus enough on using KP properly IMO. I think the PG play is a huge factor in that. Just imagine what this kid would do with the right PG.

I must say that regarding KP's D and rebounding the coaches need to help him focus and use better techniques. Also should be working with him more on passing out of double teams.

StarksEwing1
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1/22/2017  2:55 PM
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Are they stopping KP from getting a rebound? Also, why did he not get shots to start the 4th when Rose and Melo was off the floor? Why isn't JH making him the focal point when he is running with the bench or signal to his pg to go back to KP when he is with the starters.

Neither Rose or Melo is a star but if you keep one you keep Melo because you do not give a huge contract to Rose at all. I could see if he was showing promise as a passer but he is not so he has to go.

You sound a bit bitter towards KP! Is he supposed to be perfect in year 2 at 21??? The point isn't whether KP is a finished product it's about how to best develop him into the best player he can be. So far Rose and Melo have not done enough to help KP succeed. Even BJ has fallen off his pretty good PG play from earlier in the season.

Jeff came into the season saying he wanted to highlight KP but as the problems with the team have mounted, his focus on KP has slipped. BJ used to get KP GREAT looks earlier in the season which only proves the big get should be a passing PG.

You sound like a lot of Knick fans who get upset when someone criticizes KP. He has flaws it is okay to point them out. It is also okay to point out that he needs to take ownership of his own shortcomings. He has things he needs to work on inside which hopefully will come as he matures and develops physically. IF KP is going to start to play the 5 more he needs to rebound, roll to the basket more, and stop committing stupid fouls.


Do the knicks need to do a better job of building around him going forward sure but that would have been my goal since he was drafted.


It's not about me not criticizing KP or any other Knicks fan not critiquing him. It's about recognizing he's still young and developing and to try to keep things in perspective. He doesn't get the benefit of a PG partner that is looking to get him great looks. I guarantee you KP would be putting up great numbers with a more complimentary PG.

KP Readily admits he has a lot to learn and NO ONE has ever questioned his work ethic. He came back this year with improved skills and I expect that will continue.

good post. NOBODY ever said KP is perfect...he still has a lot to learn since he is still a kid. However like you said he also can be used more effectively. So some is hin but some is coaching putting him the the best situations
HofstraBBall
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1/22/2017  3:48 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:So KP makes 5 straight shots in the third quarter.
Barely shoots or get set up rest of the way

Rose and Melo are very good scorers but they don't make teammates better or find players in flow.

In my opinion we need to choose between Melo and Rose and build the team around Willy, KP, Kuz or Melo, Lee/Holiday and Rose or (A PG we trade Rose for)

I think KP is not ready to be the alpha of the team, but he absolutely should be the prioritized number 2 option.

Rose is younger at 28 looks in his athletic prime. But not a great teammate and more of a shooting guard.
Melo is older at 33, looks in physical decline but when playing point forward plays well with KP and a good teammate. Loyal.

One thing is for sure.

Melo, Rose and KP just don't work as a big 3. Individually they all put nice numbers but the flow just isn't there.

We are adding a lottery pick this summer. We have Willy at the 5, KP at 4, Kuz at 3. Should re-sign Holiday for coming in as a small quick 3 or a 2. The question is who is better fit long term Melo or Rose? Believe it or not I think we should keep one. We need one star to pair with KP.

How many points did KP score in first half withiut Melo and Rose on the floor? With? Is that because we did not get him the ball? How many more shots did Melo take than KP? 4!? You may have a point with Rose with 26 shots. And agree there could be more off the ball plays for KP, specially down the stretch. But you can say that for any player. Sometimes the good players just have to take it upon themselves to take over.

But here is the problem with your assertion. Lets say we get rid of Rose and Melo and get say a guy like CP3 (Great chance of that happening. See THJ and Grant try), what will KP's challenge be? He still has trouble creating his own shot like Melo or Rose. He does not dive to basket on PnR. He does not have a post up game. He mostly is comfortable hovering the 3pt. line. So what do you think will happen when he is placed on the floor with guys of a lesser caliber/threat than Rose or Melo? Clue, watch yesterdays game and others, when he was on the floor without them. Can he handle and create when defenses are focusing on doubling him forcing others to beat them? No one sees the complexity of trying to score when teams focus on you. Let alone take over a game/dominate. ie. Melo.

Its one thing to hope that he is ready for the next level and carry a team and face the full focus of a defense. But from what we have seen, we cant say that is guaranteed. Ofcourse he still might be but to think he can at 21 YEARS OLD is pretty aggressive. I do agree that they may not work as big 3. Was excited to have Rose, a quick former MVP and upgrade but just dont think we can win without a true PG with a good outside shot. Problem is, they are hard to find and are quite expensive. (Conley). Disagree that KUZ is a starter in this league, right now. Has too many holes on defense. Also, sometimes a bit of tunnel vision on offense.

You make some good points. I think we have a special talent in..KP so i dont think we have to worry about his future. However you are right he is still very young and hasnt reached his full potential yet. I still feel we dont run enough plays for him though. We definetly need traditional point guard for BOTH KP and melo. I appreciate what rose does but he just doesnt fit as a point guard

Agree. Hopefully we get a good one. Would not mind keeping Rose, if not too expensive and have him come off the bench. Just dont think he would accept that. Imo, wed dont have enough set plays for KP and Melo where they get picks off the ball. But then everyone will be complaing we dont have a free flowing, everyone touches the ball offense.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
nixluva
Posts: 56258
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1/22/2017  4:07 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
nyknickzingis wrote:So KP makes 5 straight shots in the third quarter.
Barely shoots or get set up rest of the way

Rose and Melo are very good scorers but they don't make teammates better or find players in flow.

In my opinion we need to choose between Melo and Rose and build the team around Willy, KP, Kuz or Melo, Lee/Holiday and Rose or (A PG we trade Rose for)

I think KP is not ready to be the alpha of the team, but he absolutely should be the prioritized number 2 option.

Rose is younger at 28 looks in his athletic prime. But not a great teammate and more of a shooting guard.
Melo is older at 33, looks in physical decline but when playing point forward plays well with KP and a good teammate. Loyal.

One thing is for sure.

Melo, Rose and KP just don't work as a big 3. Individually they all put nice numbers but the flow just isn't there.

We are adding a lottery pick this summer. We have Willy at the 5, KP at 4, Kuz at 3. Should re-sign Holiday for coming in as a small quick 3 or a 2. The question is who is better fit long term Melo or Rose? Believe it or not I think we should keep one. We need one star to pair with KP.

How many points did KP score in first half withiut Melo and Rose on the floor? With? Is that because we did not get him the ball? How many more shots did Melo take than KP? 4!? You may have a point with Rose with 26 shots. And agree there could be more off the ball plays for KP, specially down the stretch. But you can say that for any player. Sometimes the good players just have to take it upon themselves to take over.

But here is the problem with your assertion. Lets say we get rid of Rose and Melo and get say a guy like CP3 (Great chance of that happening. See THJ and Grant try), what will KP's challenge be? He still has trouble creating his own shot like Melo or Rose. He does not dive to basket on PnR. He does not have a post up game. He mostly is comfortable hovering the 3pt. line. So what do you think will happen when he is placed on the floor with guys of a lesser caliber/threat than Rose or Melo? Clue, watch yesterdays game and others, when he was on the floor without them. Can he handle and create when defenses are focusing on doubling him forcing others to beat them? No one sees the complexity of trying to score when teams focus on you. Let alone take over a game/dominate. ie. Melo.

Its one thing to hope that he is ready for the next level and carry a team and face the full focus of a defense. But from what we have seen, we cant say that is guaranteed. Ofcourse he still might be but to think he can at 21 YEARS OLD is pretty aggressive. I do agree that they may not work as big 3. Was excited to have Rose, a quick former MVP and upgrade but just dont think we can win without a true PG with a good outside shot. Problem is, they are hard to find and are quite expensive. (Conley). Disagree that KUZ is a starter in this league, right now. Has too many holes on defense. Also, sometimes a bit of tunnel vision on offense.

You make some good points. I think we have a special talent in..KP so i dont think we have to worry about his future. However you are right he is still very young and hasnt reached his full potential yet. I still feel we dont run enough plays for him though. We definetly need traditional point guard for BOTH KP and melo. I appreciate what rose does but he just doesnt fit as a point guard

Agree. Hopefully we get a good one. Would not mind keeping Rose, if not too expensive and have him come off the bench. Just dont think he would accept that. Imo, wed dont have enough set plays for KP and Melo where they get picks off the ball. But then everyone will be complaing we dont have a free flowing, everyone touches the ball offense.


No I totally agree about running some picks/down screens etc. there's no reason we can't run some Curls etc. KP and Melo both KILL IT on catch and shoot looks. If Rose had better court vision it would make a HUGE difference!! The guy just puts his head down and never really looks around enough. Rose should be looking to drive and kick EVERY SINGLE TIME! He will still be able to score while doing that.

If I was coach I'd drill just that. No layups. Just drive looking for open teammates 🤓

arkrud
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1/22/2017  4:18 PM
All talk is about improving offence which is already good enough.
Defense is the issue and both Melo and Rose are very bad at it.
Without defense KP no-KP this team will never be good.
Knicks need 2-way defensive minded players around KP and both Melo and Rose are not a solution.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Rose/Melo and how it affects KP

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