IIRC correctly bulls offered 17. He's worse now. Even without a NTC. No one would provide max value back

Not a single NBA coach who has had him likes him. Boeheim is the only coach I know he has, and the reason is obvious

Why are we so hypnotized by him? It's nuts

He's talented but cmon. Let's wake up

The problem is the NTC. It makes it very hard to trade him, because he can dictate who and which situation he would waive the trade clause for. If it's a trade that guts the other team, he won't do it. He will only accept one that is likely a great situation for him and not the Knicks. It's why Phil won't even bother playing the trade game with Melo. He's hoping Melo gets so fed up himself of all the losing that he'll want out. Joke's on Phil. Melo sees himself as a winner as team USA's gold medalist (yes go beat up on weaker talent filled with 10 all-stars and call yourself a champ).

I like Melo, he's a nice guy and great scorer. He is pretty dumb when it comes to realizing how to win basketball games. He's never going to get it, in my opinion. If winning was really important to him, he would be either playing differently in NY or wanting to bail to go to another city. He's happy simply being the #1 chucker and attention getter on a below average Knicks team every year. Making max money.

It's ok because it's 2 more years after this, and KP should be ready to carry a bigger load of the team then at 23. It coincides well. If KP were asked to carry the team right now, he wouldn't be able to. It's not all bad. We're surprisingly entertaining to watch with Melo and this team despite not being very good. As bad as this season has been, I have actually been entertained more than last year. We have quite a lot of talent, and Melo is one of them.

2 more years. Knicks should just fill the roster with as many young players as possible. Plan for what happens 2 years from now, but in the mean time try to be competitive and entertaining in the short term with Melo, maybe Rose. Drafting well is the key. Our 2 best young players are 21 and 22 in KP and Willy. Both picks. We need to keep drafting young clay. Going to likely draft low lottery this summer. Next year maybe in the lottery again. Got to make good selections. Relistically team won't really be any good until KP is in his prime and the younger players have matured. Phil has to make smarter free agency additions in the meantime. More moves like O'Quinn in free agency, or RoLo. Less moves like Noah. Lee was ok, but I hope we move him for younger talent or a pick by the summer.

I believe the Clippers would take Melo in a heartbeat if they could do a trade not involving Blake.

Boston would probably make a trade for Melo right now depending on their assets they'd have to give.

Memphis would take Melo in a heartbeat.

There would be teams who would want Melo. I just named four playoffs teams who would be a step or two better with Melo.

Did you see him score 25pts in the second quarter tonight? Not many players can do that. It's still a valuable skill.

Should the final possessions of a game be Iso-Melo when we have Rose and KP? Of course not.

nyknickzingis wrote:That's hate.

***

I like Melo, he's a nice guy and great scorer. He is pretty dumb when it comes to realizing how to win basketball games. He's never going to get it, in my opinion. If winning was really important to him, he would be either playing differently in NY or wanting to bail to go to another city. He's happy simply being the #1 chucker and attention getter on a below average Knicks team every year. Making max money.

it's not hate. it's frustration, and i think reality

the quote above is a good summary of my view. I like him; he's very talented; he's not a winner. The problem is he doesn't hate to lose enough to sacrifice his play and do the little things.

Kenny the Jet had it right last night. Knicks need a pg with enough chops to look the other way and protect the team and melo from melo. Melo gets the ball he's going to take the shot -- stupid or otherwise.

i did see the 25 points and it was awesome. i also saw the 2-12 (or whatever it was in the second half) the touch fouls and the stupid shots.

People may be right that the clips would take him, but i can't imagine anyone giving us max value back -- not even close

and as a long time boston resident i can say with high confidence celts don't want melo

the main point is we should stop pretending he's some elite, max value player. those days are gone. We're stuck with him with all his talent and all his flaws

as a team, we need to scheme and strategize accordingly, e.g., sub him out late in games when team needs stops. Sub him (and any other player out) when not playing hard at both ends. I.e., treat him more like we would treat other players and not pampering for fear of hurting his ego

We don't do this now. We keep yelling at him hoping this tiger will change his stripes; we need to accept him for what he is, and use those skills to their max, but not have some willful blindness/ignorance of his shortcomings

Anything we could get in a trade with any team other than Boston would likely be a massive step back. This is the NBA. Not even a handful of teams compete and the rest are stuck in purgatory.

Chandler wrote:good question. i should have been clearer,

the main point is we should stop pretending he's some elite, max value player. those days are gone. We're stuck with him with all his talent and all his flaws

as a team, we need to scheme and strategize accordingly, e.g., sub him out late in games when team needs stops. Sub him (and any other player out) when not playing hard at both ends. I.e., treat him more like we would treat other players and not pampering for fear of hurting his ego

We don't do this now. We keep yelling at him hoping this tiger will change his stripes; we need to accept him for what he is, and use those skills to their max, but not have some willful blindness/ignorance of his shortcomings

nyknickzingis wrote:That's hate.
If there were no NTC, he would be moved without trouble. Yes complicated, but I think quite a few teams would pay for him. 2 years left on his deal after this one and he's a very scorer.

Can't win playoff basketball without defense. Plain and simple.

To defend you need to protect the rim and you need to lock down the perimeter.

To do those two things, you need pivots and wings. Pivots and wings, even marginal ones, get paid.

Salary cap is not a bottomless pit. Melo is a 4 who can't/won't defend and is a zero when it comes to actual team basketball.

To go to a roster and WIN, Melo needs to go to a team that has cost controlled pivots and wings ( so they can absorb his huge salary and salary trade kicker) PLUS have the assets to make the trade in the first place.

When the Clippers traded for Chris Paul, they had a stockpile of assets. It took them YEARS to accumulate that and there was no guarantee all those assets would have panned out to start when first acquired.

Melo wants to go to a contender with a "big market" for his branding BS.

So New Jersey, and both LA teams, would need to have stockpiles assets, have the cap room or disposable contracts AND said remaining players, to contend and be on their rookie contracts, would need to have developed, in unison, at a historic rate.

For Melo to get everything he wants, given his limitations and selfish non team play, and demands, you basically need a situation equivalent to a unicorn butt****ing a hobbit over a pool table in Narnia. To have only a small number of teams have this kind of specific situation defies the actual NBA marketplace environment.

The only chance Melo has to win a ring now is as a ring chaser when he's broken down and old and can only be a 10th man or 11th man for some bench scoring punch. It would be like Mitch Richmond joining the Bulls right at the end of his career ( except Richmond was a team player and gave full effort and didn't say stupid things in the press)

Melo can't get team basketball. Except when he increases his assists, runs team get togethers and off season practices and even young unicorns say they love him on their team.

Melo's a selfish douche, except when he's standing up for social issues, running donations at Red Hook, and staying with a franchise and setting records for said franchise that no other star player has the balls to go to.

I truly don't understand the mentality of Knicks fans who have such unmitigated hate for what has been the franchise player for the past 5 years. Have other stars had the chance to come here? They sure have. Have they? They sure haven't. But I'm sure the lack of cojones to handle the media circus, and this low current, low wattage fandom that hates without brains is Melo's fault as well.

Melo says stupid things, except that stupid is defined by a small, vocal cadre of mostly off-site, front-running losers who manage to only magically appear in force when things are going like ****, and don't really bother to post otherwise.

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:good question. i should have been clearer,

the main point is we should stop pretending he's some elite, max value player. those days are gone. We're stuck with him with all his talent and all his flaws

as a team, we need to scheme and strategize accordingly, e.g., sub him out late in games when team needs stops. Sub him (and any other player out) when not playing hard at both ends. I.e., treat him more like we would treat other players and not pampering for fear of hurting his ego

We don't do this now. We keep yelling at him hoping this tiger will change his stripes; we need to accept him for what he is, and use those skills to their max, but not have some willful blindness/ignorance of his shortcomings

Chandler,

The Golden Mooby, the starphuch, etc etc for his tenure is the very thing your coming to grips with. Olympic Melo shows that he can in spurts be a knock out punch kind of player when surrounded by talent.
At this juncture we have Rose, who puts his head down and does his thing, Mooby, who is supreme talent but cannot sustain physically what very few players in history can do which is sustain that kind of effort for a full 38 minutes a game. Melo can play defense, when so inspired. He can rebound, he can pass, and of course score. What he can't do is sustain all of that.

He is what he is. He has been promoted as a top tier all star and that fulfills expectations and perhaps anger when he does not live up to that expectation.
For all of it, melo is a knick, loyal to new York, wants to be here, does tease us with his talents at times and is the lightening rod for the team. This is new York.

But turn on the game and you see what Im talking about. He has been a "Star" player, but not a statistical all NBA type player for some time.
Reality is he would be a finishing piece for some teams and they would pay a price for him. Fact is, he has a NTC for a reason.

well stated. My main point is we should be using him for what he is, and not as we would hope for him to be. We are stuck with him for better or worse

The team needs to stop treating him like a prima donna and stop pretending he's a messiah. If he can't guard O.Porter take him out. If he's 2-12 in the second half don't run iso for him in the end of games (where he fails as much as, if not more than, he succeeds); conversely when he's on fire (and "it's working") keep feeding him

If we lower our expectations, he'll exceed them

Chandler wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Chandler wrote:good question. i should have been clearer,

the main point is we should stop pretending he's some elite, max value player. those days are gone. We're stuck with him with all his talent and all his flaws

as a team, we need to scheme and strategize accordingly, e.g., sub him out late in games when team needs stops. Sub him (and any other player out) when not playing hard at both ends. I.e., treat him more like we would treat other players and not pampering for fear of hurting his ego

We don't do this now. We keep yelling at him hoping this tiger will change his stripes; we need to accept him for what he is, and use those skills to their max, but not have some willful blindness/ignorance of his shortcomings

Chandler,

The Golden Mooby, the starphuch, etc etc for his tenure is the very thing your coming to grips with. Olympic Melo shows that he can in spurts be a knock out punch kind of player when surrounded by talent.
At this juncture we have Rose, who puts his head down and does his thing, Mooby, who is supreme talent but cannot sustain physically what very few players in history can do which is sustain that kind of effort for a full 38 minutes a game. Melo can play defense, when so inspired. He can rebound, he can pass, and of course score. What he can't do is sustain all of that.

He is what he is. He has been promoted as a top tier all star and that fulfills expectations and perhaps anger when he does not live up to that expectation.
For all of it, melo is a knick, loyal to new York, wants to be here, does tease us with his talents at times and is the lightening rod for the team. This is new York.

But turn on the game and you see what Im talking about. He has been a "Star" player, but not a statistical all NBA type player for some time.
Reality is he would be a finishing piece for some teams and they would pay a price for him. Fact is, he has a NTC for a reason.

well stated. My main point is we should be using him for what he is, and not as we would hope for him to be. We are stuck with him for better or worse

The team needs to stop treating him like a prima donna and stop pretending he's a messiah. If he can't guard O.Porter take him out. If he's 2-12 in the second half don't run iso for him in the end of games (where he fails as much as, if not more than, he succeeds); conversely when he's on fire (and "it's working") keep feeding him

If we lower our expectations, he'll exceed them

Expectations reduce joy...
So the most miserable NBA fans are Knicks fans.