On a 2nd night of a back to back, 4th game in 5 nights, we competed at a very high level against a 5th seed East team,
KP looked fresh as a daisy and that was probably his best dunk of the season. The spring was there.
Our offense went dry, mainly because of too much Melo ball, but for the most part it was still firing. 67 points in the 1st.
When on, Melo is still a great scorer. He has to play more of a catch and shoot, dribble off a screen and shoot, quick post up jumper type of role
Rose's a very good shooting guard for us if we want to go out and get a starting point guard to pair him with.
O'Quinn is a quality quality big.
Bench was fantastic

Negatives

We can't defend the 3. Same story all season. We just worry too much about giving up the layup, when a 3 pointer is more dangerous than a 2 in today's league.
Melo went into iso hero ball mode.
Baker and Kuz looked less effective as starters.

Overall I thought this was a game earlier in the season or even 2 weeks ago where we would have lost badly. 2nd night of a back to back, blow out. Against a young athletic Washington team? Book a beat down. We had leads, lost it, got down big, came back and had the lead in the last minute. Believe it or not, I see some progress.

holfresh wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Wall got easy buckets for Gortat and Jason Smith! Where are the highlights from Rose to KP???

You do realize Wall and Gortat have been playing together for four years now?

KP and Rose have less than 30 games on the court together and no training camp.

It took Wall and Gortat years to learn the timing on the pick and roll.

Also the pick and roll between KP and Rose was getting Rose drives to the hoop the entire 4th quarter because the Wizards were afraid to leave KP.

Obviously Wall and Gortat have history but You can't tell me that if you have ALL DAY in the gym to work with a guy on a 2 man game you should be able to develop more chemistry than we've seen so far. As i've asked before, where are all the Rose to KP highlight videos??? There should be tons of stuff. It doesn't take that much to develop chemistry in a 2 man game.

The triangle you used to advocate for didn't allow a KP / Rose pick and roll from the top of the key like that. It's a wrinkle Hornacek has added. It can get better. But what do you want to bet Phil makes a fuss through his mouth piece that the Knicks need to get back to Triangle principals.

Not that its why we lost but here is the thing I keep bringing up about KP, he does not like like to dive off PnR. Neither does KO. Prefer Willy for that. Also, we do not have any down low presence other than Melo. Prefer Willy for that. Maybe I am still feelin the Boston performance but we just didnt have anything down low without him. Shit, even prefered ROLO because he cut to the hole. Hard to get easy outside shots without a inside out game.

KO doesn't roll to the basket on PnR..

Is that not what I said?

HofstraBBall wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:Wall got easy buckets for Gortat and Jason Smith! Where are the highlights from Rose to KP???

You do realize Wall and Gortat have been playing together for four years now?

KP and Rose have less than 30 games on the court together and no training camp.

It took Wall and Gortat years to learn the timing on the pick and roll.

Also the pick and roll between KP and Rose was getting Rose drives to the hoop the entire 4th quarter because the Wizards were afraid to leave KP.

Obviously Wall and Gortat have history but You can't tell me that if you have ALL DAY in the gym to work with a guy on a 2 man game you should be able to develop more chemistry than we've seen so far. As i've asked before, where are all the Rose to KP highlight videos??? There should be tons of stuff. It doesn't take that much to develop chemistry in a 2 man game.

The triangle you used to advocate for didn't allow a KP / Rose pick and roll from the top of the key like that. It's a wrinkle Hornacek has added. It can get better. But what do you want to bet Phil makes a fuss through his mouth piece that the Knicks need to get back to Triangle principals.

Not that its why we lost but here is the thing I keep bringing up about KP, he does not like like to dive off PnR. Neither does KO. Prefer Willy for that. Also, we do not have any down low presence other than Melo. Prefer Willy for that. Maybe I am still feelin the Boston performance but we just didnt have anything down low without him. Shit, even prefered ROLO because he cut to the hole. Hard to get easy outside shots without a inside out game.

Yeah this is true as well. KP usually floats back to the top of the key for a three. DRose has hit him there a few times, but it's a hard pass because he's crashing the rim and KP is behind him with probably a defender or two in between. Rose's best bet at that point is diving to the rim himself. He's pretty good at it. But they need to adjust KP's position or teach him to dive to the rim if they want that play to work.

holfresh wrote:Knicks was playing double high post with Melo and KP which worked well in the second..Never saw it again..Melo got a quick hook and early rest in the game..He played well after the early rest..Why not so that again in the third?

Yeah that was a very nice look and it's something Jeff used to run in PHX. I suspect that we'll see more of that as we move forward. When Jeff looks at the game film it should give him confidence to use it more.

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Knicks was playing double high post with Melo and KP which worked well in the second..Never saw it again..Melo got a quick hook and early rest in the game..He played well after the early rest..Why not so that again in the third?

Yeah that was a very nice look and it's something Jeff used to run in PHX. I suspect that we'll see more of that as we move forward. When Jeff looks at the game film it should give him confidence to use it more.

Nothing is consistent with Jeff..Nothing..Where was Willy tonight?

Yeah the lack of Willy was maddening. Speaking of a guy both Melo and DRose find on pick and rolls.

crzymdups wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:Knicks was playing double high post with Melo and KP which worked well in the second..Never saw it again..Melo got a quick hook and early rest in the game..He played well after the early rest..Why not so that again in the third?

Yeah that was a very nice look and it's something Jeff used to run in PHX. I suspect that we'll see more of that as we move forward. When Jeff looks at the game film it should give him confidence to use it more.

Nothing is consistent with Jeff..Nothing..Where was Willy tonight?

Yeah the lack of Willy was maddening. Speaking of a guy both Melo and DRose find on pick and rolls.

Sometimes he play well then disappears..

nyknickzingis wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Wizards couldn't stop DRose / KP pick and roll. So of course we go ice cold Iso Melo on the last two possessions. Makes no sense.

This.

Rose had 2 assists, must have missed that part.

The Wizards were sticking like glue to KP. It set up Rose for drives to the rim.

Would Rose have passed to him anyway? We have season's worth of statistical evidence so far to indicate that the answer is no. 2 assists crzy, thats not good, even for a backup.

As I said to nixluva - rose and KP have like 30 games played together and no training camp. It took Wall and Gortat years to develop their timing on the pick and roll.

Also, at the beginning of the season the Knicks were running triangle sets and a KP / Rose pick and roll was not even being used.

I'm sorry but you can't tell me that it would take CP3 or some other good PG that long to run PnR with KP and make it work. It's a damn 2 man game!!! You have NOTHING but time in the gym to pull your guy aside and just work on PnR.

Rose is a driving shooting guard with some passing skills. He is not a point guard. He plays point guard because of his size. He has better effectiveness with Baker or Jennings because they run point and he can just focus on scoring.

I have no problem with the way he operates now that I see him play at full gear. He's getting to the basket at will. My only issue with him is defense. He takes too many possessions off ala Melo. Not as many as Melo, but still quite a bit of that "I"m a star so I'll conserve my energy for offense".

Rose not Melo or KP has been the key this season. When he plays well, we win. Can't say that consistently for either Melo or KP. He was ok today but couldn't dominate, too much Melo.
Now Rose is as iso happy as Melo but at least he doesn't take 21 seconds off the shot clock to chuck up a contested jumpshot. His defense is atrocious.

But Rose is not good for our long term goals. KP doesn't benefit from Rose having a good game. I will not be bummed if we let him go at the end of the year.

nyknickzingis wrote:Positives in this game

On a 2nd night of a back to back, 4th game in 5 nights, we competed at a very high level against a 5th seed East team,
KP looked fresh as a daisy and that was probably his best dunk of the season. The spring was there.
Our offense went dry, mainly because of too much Melo ball, but for the most part it was still firing. 67 points in the 1st.
When on, Melo is still a great scorer. He has to play more of a catch and shoot, dribble off a screen and shoot, quick post up jumper type of role
Rose's a very good shooting guard for us if we want to go out and get a starting point guard to pair him with.
O'Quinn is a quality quality big.
Bench was fantastic

Negatives

We can't defend the 3. Same story all season. We just worry too much about giving up the layup, when a 3 pointer is more dangerous than a 2 in today's league.
Melo went into iso hero ball mode.
Baker and Kuz looked less effective as starters.

Overall I thought this was a game earlier in the season or even 2 weeks ago where we would have lost badly. 2nd night of a back to back, blow out. Against a young athletic Washington team? Book a beat down. We had leads, lost it, got down big, came back and had the lead in the last minute. Believe it or not, I see some progress.

I don't disagree except on KOQ. He shows he can play down low, but doesn't do it often enough. He can definitely handle himself under the basket, maybe if we tried to actually establish him? Ah..we will never know.

crzymdups wrote:Shot of the last play. At least one wizard coach on the floor DURING THE PLAY.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/alanhahn/status/822292542272274437

The league office should have a STACK of missed calls and bad calls when it comes to the Knicks!!! Have you ever seen a season like this with so many situations where the Refs messed up???

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Shot of the last play. At least one wizard coach on the floor DURING THE PLAY.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/alanhahn/status/822292542272274437

The league office should have a STACK of missed calls and bad calls when it comes to the Knicks!!! Have you ever seen a season like this with so many situations where the Refs messed up???

There do seem to be a lot this year.

This from a National writer - it'll be interesting to see if it's in the L2M report the league puts out. Should've been a tech with the Knicks getting the ball back sideline out with about 5 or 6 seconds to go, ideally down only two. That said, it'd probably just be another Melo missed shot from the baseline.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/822305594644131840

Here's a video of the last play

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/KennyDucey/status/822290008807788544

Here's an article about CLee and the Wiz coach.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-courtney-lee-calling-nba-investigate-wizards-assistant-article-1.2951044

A "fooled" Courtney Lee thought the man screaming in his ear was a Wizards defender. Only it was an opposing coach who, according to Lee, should be investigated by the NBA for possible underhanded tactics.

Video confirmed that Wizards assistant Sidney Lowe rose from the Wizards bench, stepped onto the court and began shouting as Lee was positioned along the 3-point line for the potential game-tying shot in the final seconds of New York’s 113-110 loss to the Wizards. Lee was wide open when he received the ball, but passed up the shot and kicked it out to Brandon Jennings for a failed attempt at the buzzer.

“If that was their tactic, their defensive scheme, it worked,” Lee said.

Lee added that Lowe was screaming, “I’m here,” and, “My stunt,” which gave him the impression there was a defender closing in. Lowe was clearly on the court in a suit – positioned to Lee’s right -- and was pushed back to the bench by a referee only after the play unfolded.

“I think it’s something (the league) needs to take a look at,” said Lee, who added that he's unsure if Lowe did it as a purposeful distraction. “Being a basketball player, you play off instincts. And if you hear somebody right there, that’s why I tried to make the right play. But I still should have shot it."

“I thought it was another guy rotating down. I’m watching the ball and all I hear is “I’m right here, I’m right here.’ And I’m not sure if he had his hands up or not. But he fooled me.”

The Knicks had reached that pivotal moment because of another late-game breakdown, with Carmelo Anthony missing a potential game-winning bucket with 17.3 seconds left. His brick off the rim transitioned to a breakaway jam from Wizards guard John Wall, who only needed about two seconds to dribble down the court and give the Wizards their 113-110 lead. (Wall actually double-dribbled on the breakaway by touching the ball with both hands, but it was ignored by the refs).

Following a timeout, the Knicks drew up a play for Anthony, who received adouble-team when he drove to the hoop and kicked it out to Lee in the corner.

Lowe then stepped onto the court – only about a foot from Lee – and the Knicks guard pump-faked instead of taking the shot.

“(Lowe) was on the court. They had six players on the court,” Anthony said. “I saw Courtney open. To be quite honest with you, I was talking to Courtney after the game, and he believed that he thought it was (Wizards Kelly Oubre forward) or somebody closing out to him. He said that was the reason why he didn’t feel comfortable with taking that shot. But then once you see if after, once he saw it after, he got some clarity on kind of who it was.”

Lee said he’s never witnessed a similar situation, but was advised after the game on what to do the next time a coach steps into the action.

“If you just run into the coach if he’s on the floor, it’s a technical foul,” Lee said. “I’ll make sure to glance over and do that next time.”

The loss for the Knicks (19-25) was the 12th in their last 15, and it arrived mostly because of a matador defense that allowed the Wizards (23-19) to score 100 points through the first three quarters.