knicks1248 wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

magicTs wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:

magicTs wrote:And another loss. Thats a terrible miss from Melo at the end.

I thought we might win one of Toronto, Atlanta, Boston and Washington but this was by far the best opportunity of the 4. Think we go winless now which would put us at 18-26. Just pathetic.

The tank should now be well and truly on. We suck.

It's time for Melo to lift his no trade clause at the deadline and move on. We need to go in full rebuild mode. Enough is enough.

I think the conversation is coming and soon. Just reading between the lines. Our mentality is that of a team of losers. Yes, we aren't getting many breaks or call from the officials but thats just an excuse really. We should have had several of these close games in the bag but we don't because our team leaders are losers. They are mental midgets. They are not capable of concentrating for 48 mins and we give up the key plays. Plus we never make the clutch big shot, I mean our franchise superstar can't even finish an open shot from 4-5 ft to win it. Just losers.

Again and it does feel like groundhog day saying this; absolutely nothing will change until we make significant and ball club changing decisions and that is Anthony traded however it is achieved. We are going nowhere. The only good news for me is that if Jackson makes little change we are actually going to lose more games than people even imagine so can secure a high draft pick regardless.

At this point, if we can get a 1st round draft pick with an expiring contract for Melo, I would pull the trigger. I would also trade Rose for a 1st and try to couple him with Noah's bad contract. Time to stockpile as many as #1's as possible to streamline the rebuilding process.

You think drafting young players will help...we have had 10 1st rnd picks in the last 14 yrs, and we still suck. I cant unerstand how a person can be into basketball, and not see that building thruogh the draft has never wworked with the exception of 2 or 3 teams in the last 20 yrs.

Phili's entire roster is 1st round picks

We have never fully committed to rebuilding in the last 20 years. And where has that gotten us? How many playoff appearances or playoff rounds have we won in the last 20 years? We have essentially been in NBA purgatory. Has signing veterans to huge contracts worked for us? We had no draft picks last year, so how did we get 1st round picks? And the year before, we got KP b/c we essentially tanked who right now is the face of our franchise and future. Smart franchises build their teams through drafts and draft well, then add the marquee Free Agent when they're ready. Last time I checked, Golden State drafted Curry, Thompson and Draymond Green and instantly became contenders--now they added Durant via free agency.

WaltLongmire wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:not sure why people are blaming melo and not the coach...how many times is he gonna rely on rose and jennings before this team is completely burned...
and rose what a maestro performance...TO upon TO, TO upon TO...how are you expected to win with a starting PG like that....

melo gave an overall good game, sure some defensive lapses, but really what exactly did rose and jennings do on offense of defense other than call their own number???
anyone?

Its a shame because he is so talented. Said it on antoher post that I have been proven wrong about him. Just not a good point guard. Think he is more suited to coming off the bench, like a Mo Williams type. We need a PG that can distribute and run the offense. Cant believe I am saying this but would rather have Ron Baker start and have Holiday play the 2. Think the games we have been losing by 1 or in the fourth could have been won with a good PG running the team.

Thought Baker would be more of a 1 on offense, today...let Rose play as more of a 2. Baker would have been better on Schroder, and Rose could have held his own against Hardaway. He's done decently as a Galloway type guard when given the chance, but today, for the most part, they didn't give him that much ball handling to do.

Give Rose more of an opportunity to move without the ball on offense. Big issue is that he doesn't stretch the floor as a 2, but that hasn't stopped a guy like DeRozan who is shooting about 24% from 3.

Baker couldn't keep up with TimJr..I like Baker starting but his defense is overblown ..Tim got three wide open threes and then ran by Baker for an easy layup in the first quarter..When Baker was pulled, Breen said he played great defense..I think most NBA players have reps until you actually see them play...

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:not sure why people are blaming melo and not the coach...how many times is he gonna rely on rose and jennings before this team is completely burned...
and rose what a maestro performance...TO upon TO, TO upon TO...how are you expected to win with a starting PG like that....

melo gave an overall good game, sure some defensive lapses, but really what exactly did rose and jennings do on offense of defense other than call their own number???
anyone?

Its a shame because he is so talented. Said it on antoher post that I have been proven wrong about him. Just not a good point guard. Think he is more suited to coming off the bench, like a Mo Williams type. We need a PG that can distribute and run the offense. Cant believe I am saying this but would rather have Ron Baker start and have Holiday play the 2. Think the games we have been losing by 1 or in the fourth could have been won with a good PG running the team.

Thought Baker would be more of a 1 on offense, today...let Rose play as more of a 2. Baker would have been better on Schroder, and Rose could have held his own against Hardaway. He's done decently as a Galloway type guard when given the chance, but today, for the most part, they didn't give him that much ball handling to do.

Give Rose more of an opportunity to move without the ball on offense. Big issue is that he doesn't stretch the floor as a 2, but that hasn't stopped a guy like DeRozan who is shooting about 24% from 3.

Baker couldn't keep up with TimJr..I like Baker starting but his defense is overblown ..Tim got three wide open threes and then ran by Baker for an easy layup in the first quarter..When Baker was pulled, Breen said he played great defense..I think most NBA players have reps until you actually see them play...

I'm not sure that you can bash Baker, who IS AN UNDRAFTED ROOKIE by the way, for having a bit of trouble with THJr in his 1st NBA start. Baker had a lot of good defensive moments that you are forgetting because he got beat a few times. Keeping things in perspective I think Baker will learn from this. One time THJr blew by him was when Baker wasn't in proper position to defend the drive. He got caught standing straight up and that can happen from time to time. Doesn't mean your D is overrated. Give Baker more of a chance to adjust to this level. I think he'd be more ready the next time he is in a game facing an NBA SG with true SG size. Baker is only 6-4 and he's not super athletic. Baker mainly plays solid and smart BB but he's still a newbie.

So you are agreeing with me?

reub wrote:

Chandler wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:not sure why people are blaming melo and not the coach...how many times is he gonna rely on rose and jennings before this team is completely burned...
and rose what a maestro performance...TO upon TO, TO upon TO...how are you expected to win with a starting PG like that....

melo gave an overall good game, sure some defensive lapses, but really what exactly did rose and jennings do on defense or offense... other than call their own number???
anyone?

agreed i thought the turnovers from the point guards were a big blow to the outcome

Turnovers are exactly what killed us today. And many were ugly, sloppy, what-were-you-thinking variety

Snake bit

And who exactly is Hornacek supposed to play at PG besides Rose and Jennings?

Melo n Rose combined for 11 turnovers .. Melo n Rose defense let Hawks have easy baskets.
Melo slow-pace also played the PG .. Melo lead the point in every quarter in the game.
Its coach Horn job to stop Melo from bringing the ball down court whenever Melo feel like it, which is to often

Kemet wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:By the way...calling out all the basketball experts who thought Grant was better than Hardaway. Does anyone have the thread so we can see the knowledge here.

Grant's all-around talent surpass Hardaway clueless effort on defense plus Hardaway entire talent is his inconsistent perimeter shooting.
Grant came to the league having combo-guard talent plus Grant's persistent drive to the hoop n relentless effort on defense says he plays both sides of the court.
Hardaway scored easy on a rookie Baker .. giving Hardaway props for scoring on a defenseless team plus a rookie defender SMH

Coach Horn LOSS this game by putting small-ball lineups on the court, plus letting Melo slow-down the offense throughout the game. It was a foolish move letting Melo n Rose play all of the 3rd quarter, the same 3rd quarter the Knicks could have built a 10 to 15 point lead by speeding up the tempo plus take the majority of their shots inside the paint. The Hawks had no one defending the paint n the Knicks did not take advantage of scoring in the paint.
Humphries n Milsap been having big problems defending the paint this season .. Horford n Carroll defended the paint well for the Atlanta Hawks.
When our coach didnt tell our players to take advantage of the easy inside scoring in the 2nd n 3rd qtr., told me our coach didnt read the scouting report on the Hawks weakness.
Kuz has become our best backup player to replace Carmelo Anthony in a lineup .. today we played Kuz n Melo in the same lineup throughout the game and their defensive switches got both confuse to send Milsap n Humphries to the foul line ... Quinn Willy n Kuz should have been in a lineup in the 2nd quarter and 3rd quarter to get us easy buckets inside the paint.

Thanks for coming out and making an attempt. But NO! Hardaway has been inserted into lineup and the Hawks are winning. Clearly one of two best players on Hawks yesterday offensively. How is Grant doing on Bulls? Minutes? Good try.

Reason for Knicks losing, again, which by the way is not the worst loss ever, is bad Guard defense. JH tried to fix it but couldn't. Small ball was one of those attempts. However, they played very well. Hawks hit big 3's down stretch. Excwpt for Hump left wide open, and not by Melo. Melo played well, drove strong to basket, got people involved but had too many TO's. Rose had good drives but still no PG. Also too many TO's. For those that have had organized basketball experience, specially at D1 or higher level, they know this was a good back and forth game that came down to end of game stops. Hawks were able to, Knicks did not. It's easy to point to specifics, I get caught doing that in frustration, but end of day it was not one of those games you can blame anyone for losing.

crzymdups wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Kemet wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:By the way...calling out all the basketball experts who thought Grant was better than Hardaway. Does anyone have the thread so we can see the knowledge here.

Grant's all-around talent surpass Hardaway clueless effort on defense plus Hardaway entire talent is his inconsistent perimeter shooting.
Grant came to the league having combo-guard talent plus Grant's persistent drive to the hoop n relentless effort on defense says he plays both sides of the court.
Hardaway scored easy on a rookie Baker .. giving Hardaway props for scoring on a defenseless team plus a rookie defender SMH

Coach Horn LOSS this game by putting small-ball lineups on the court, plus letting Melo slow-down the offense throughout the game. It was a foolish move letting Melo n Rose play all of the 3rd quarter, the same 3rd quarter the Knicks could have built a 10 to 15 point lead by speeding up the tempo plus take the majority of their shots inside the paint. The Hawks had no one defending the paint n the Knicks did not take advantage of scoring in the paint.
Humphries n Milsap been having big problems defending the paint this season .. Horford n Carroll defended the paint well for the Atlanta Hawks.
When our coach didnt tell our players to take advantage of the easy inside scoring in the 2nd n 3rd qtr., told me our coach didnt read the scouting report on the Hawks weakness.
Kuz has become our best backup player to replace Carmelo Anthony in a lineup .. today we played Kuz n Melo in the same lineup throughout the game and their defensive switches got both confuse to send Milsap n Humphries to the foul line ... Quinn Willy n Kuz should have been in a lineup in the 2nd quarter and 3rd quarter to get us easy buckets inside the paint.

Thanks for coming out and making an attempt. But NO! Hardaway has been inserted into lineup and the Hawks are winning. Clearly one of two best players on Hawks yesterday offensively. How is Grant doing on Bulls? Minutes? Good try.

Reason for Knicks losing, again, which by the way is not the worst loss ever, is bad Guard defense. JH tried to fix it but couldn't. Small ball was one of those attempts. However, they played very well. Hawks hit big 3's down stretch. Excwpt for Hump left wide open, and not by Melo. Melo played well, drove strong to basket, got people involved but had too many TO's. Rose had good drives but still no PG. Also too many TO's. For those that have had organized basketball experience, specially at D1 or higher level, they know this was a good back and forth game that came down to end of game stops. Hawks were able to, Knicks did not. It's easy to point to specifics, I get caught doing that in frustration, but end of day it was not one of those games you can blame anyone for losing.

I really liked Hardaway when we drafted him and was high on him after his rookie season - but he was terrible here defensively. Just awful. Yesterday he wasn't very good defensively for the Hawks, but the Knicks didn't really have a weapon there. Do you think his defense has made strides? Honest question.

Think everyone gets a bit better with more time in NBA. But by no means am I representing him to be a defensive juggernaut. Point was who is better TJH or Grant. Grant, to me, has and will never have the things needed to be a an NBA guard. No vision, in spite of playing 4 years. Out of control and terrible outside shot. TJH showed yesterday he can still get hot, has good range, energy and someone defenses have to stop. Grant's knees knocked so hard in the spotlight it was hard to notice anything else. Just felt it was Phil's ego trying to show that any other choice but his own is just not up to snuff. And maybe not even just Phil, everyone is so quick to give up on guys if they don't have the whole package just no patience. Me included.